Merged: Senate Inquiry
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RTFQ
Goobledock,
errhh, no, it is doesn't!
I suppose you would have to read the presentation teaser with a bit of attention to detail, combined with a bit of open-mindedness:
I would have loved to hear the presentation (or see a transcript) because I believe that it would have been about understanding what "just culture" really is and, most importantly, is not. It would have been about the limitations of defining the boundaries between those actions that require corrective and/or disciplinary action and those that do not. I certainly hope it may have touched upon the potential conflicts between a proactive safety philosophy and a reactive and retributive legal system and the implications for operators in respect of s28BE of the Civil Aviation Act 1988.
Frankly, there are much bigger issues on the horizon....
Stay Alive,
Aleck’s statement contradicts or challenges the ICAO and CASA support of Just Culture, does it not?
I suppose you would have to read the presentation teaser with a bit of attention to detail, combined with a bit of open-mindedness:
Caution is good counsel, from a practical and intellectual perspective alike, and it is in that light that I will consider some real and telling examples of the risks an undiscriminating embrace of ‘just culture’ may entailfor the very objectives many of its proponents so enthusiastically endorse.
Frankly, there are much bigger issues on the horizon....
Stay Alive,
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Just culture, Natural Justice are conditional phrases which to the FOI on the front line mean little when placed in context against the needs of the performance review which will be judged on the outcomes of regulatory action, and this means negative action for industry as opposed to proactive action that might have better outcomes but is initially impossible to measure whereas a prosecution is immediately measurable.
Think , the outcomes are a Tautology (rhetoric), using different words to say the same thing even if the repetition does not provide clarity. Tautology also means a series of self-reinforcing statements that cannot be disproved because the statements depend on the assumption that they are already correct.
Think , the outcomes are a Tautology (rhetoric), using different words to say the same thing even if the repetition does not provide clarity. Tautology also means a series of self-reinforcing statements that cannot be disproved because the statements depend on the assumption that they are already correct.
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Call a doctor
T28D, S&#t you are scaring me old son, you sound like you are morphing into a clone of Aleck !!!
Lay off drinking goon for a while bro!
Lay off drinking goon for a while bro!
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casa reply to Senate Enquiry ["Government reply"]
Has anyone actually read the "reply by Government" to the Senate Committee.
It seems to require some discussion in this forum.
The report is at:
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committ...nse_221111.pdf
I am sure that the hard work of the Senators should not be "handed-off" by a reply that has been drafted by the people of whom the Senators work is largely critical.
A robust discussion may well again expose casa for what it is - and as any one who was at the Senate hearings could see for themselves.
Anyone????
It seems to require some discussion in this forum.
The report is at:
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committ...nse_221111.pdf
I am sure that the hard work of the Senators should not be "handed-off" by a reply that has been drafted by the people of whom the Senators work is largely critical.
A robust discussion may well again expose casa for what it is - and as any one who was at the Senate hearings could see for themselves.
Anyone????
Thread Starter
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Has anyone actually read the "reply by Government" to the Senate Committee.
Big business and government...hand in hand in complicity despite the best efforts of Senator X and many other tireless, safety-oriented individuals
PG
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Extra layer of pony pooh!
Yes, sadly I did read through the bureaucratically laced pages of pony pooh (thanks Kharon for letting me borrow your robust lingo).
As with the 'white paper' ( more like 'brown paper') the responses from government were as expected - non commital, non accountable and basic ****e nicely worded by the overpaid lawyers trained skillfully in the art of deflection. Naturally the government 'notes' the recomendations. Gutless turds. How about saying 'accepts'? Go on I dare you !!
Some comments as follows (please note that I have changed the word 'recomendation' to 'defecation' as this more aptly suits this entire farcical waste of money:
Defecation 1: The response means none of the LCC operations in Australia are breaking any regulatory law. The modern airline CEO in his quest for the ultimate cheap recruit and massive bonus is allowed to continue flying his airline along the current flight path to a smoking hole. Tick Tock.
Defecation 2: A nice example of a response containing nil tangible commitment. We will be waiting another 23 years.
Defecation 3: Expected release in 2012?? Ha! Another 23 years will roll on by.
Defecation 4,6 and 7: Are these drafts released and able to be viewed, as per the proposed date of November 2011?
Defecation 10: Another superlative deflection of accountability. We shall be waiting another 23 years! They made sure they did not 'note' this recomendation didnt they? I mean wow, the Minister gets all these updates on the regulatory reform program through so many super avenue's. BULLS#IT!
Defecation 11: Ha! More funding alright. Being spent naturally on executive payrises, bonuses and even some on the steaming brown reg reform program !! Absolutley hilarious.
Defecation 12: Are you serious, more funding for competitive salaries? These trough dwellers are well and truly overpaid by the modern aviation standard. I know Q400 drivers on 60k so why dont we put the equivalent FOI's on 60k then ? Sorry, what does Tiger and the bulk of JQ pay management again? (not CEO level) OK, all executive CASA management to be paired with those salaries. DONE!!
Defecation 14: Another brilliant deflection. Put that one to bed boys, finished, to go no further.
Defecation 19: Ha! Just Culture. Yes, do as I say not do as I do! How about the regulator treat indsutry with just culture? What a crock of pony pooh, the concept of just culture being apllied by a bullyboy organisation to busy measuring the size of each others tockleys.
Defecation 20: More spin, more deflection, another 23 years awaiting an outcome.
As with the 'white paper' ( more like 'brown paper') the responses from government were as expected - non commital, non accountable and basic ****e nicely worded by the overpaid lawyers trained skillfully in the art of deflection. Naturally the government 'notes' the recomendations. Gutless turds. How about saying 'accepts'? Go on I dare you !!
Some comments as follows (please note that I have changed the word 'recomendation' to 'defecation' as this more aptly suits this entire farcical waste of money:
Defecation 1: The response means none of the LCC operations in Australia are breaking any regulatory law. The modern airline CEO in his quest for the ultimate cheap recruit and massive bonus is allowed to continue flying his airline along the current flight path to a smoking hole. Tick Tock.
Defecation 2: A nice example of a response containing nil tangible commitment. We will be waiting another 23 years.
Defecation 3: Expected release in 2012?? Ha! Another 23 years will roll on by.
Defecation 4,6 and 7: Are these drafts released and able to be viewed, as per the proposed date of November 2011?
Defecation 10: Another superlative deflection of accountability. We shall be waiting another 23 years! They made sure they did not 'note' this recomendation didnt they? I mean wow, the Minister gets all these updates on the regulatory reform program through so many super avenue's. BULLS#IT!
Defecation 11: Ha! More funding alright. Being spent naturally on executive payrises, bonuses and even some on the steaming brown reg reform program !! Absolutley hilarious.
Defecation 12: Are you serious, more funding for competitive salaries? These trough dwellers are well and truly overpaid by the modern aviation standard. I know Q400 drivers on 60k so why dont we put the equivalent FOI's on 60k then ? Sorry, what does Tiger and the bulk of JQ pay management again? (not CEO level) OK, all executive CASA management to be paired with those salaries. DONE!!
Defecation 14: Another brilliant deflection. Put that one to bed boys, finished, to go no further.
Defecation 19: Ha! Just Culture. Yes, do as I say not do as I do! How about the regulator treat indsutry with just culture? What a crock of pony pooh, the concept of just culture being apllied by a bullyboy organisation to busy measuring the size of each others tockleys.
Defecation 20: More spin, more deflection, another 23 years awaiting an outcome.
Below sums up what the governemnt and its leeches have delivered
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Recent story from the US now that the FAA have ratified the 1500 hour ATPL Co-pilot rule whilst CASA sit on their hands and deny there is a problem.
FAA proposes new rules for co-pilots - CBS News Video
More to follow
The Kelpie
FAA proposes new rules for co-pilots - CBS News Video
More to follow
The Kelpie
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Home > News > Owners consider sale of Oxford Aviation Academy
Owners consider sale of Oxford Aviation Academy
Mon, 24 Oct 2011
By Hanna Sharpe
The main shareholder of Oxford Aviation Academy, British buy-out group Star Capital Partners, is mulling a sale of the global business.
Star Capital has received several expressions of interest in the pilot training and leasing provider business over the past few months. It is understood that Credit Suisse has been approached with the task of possibly selling the business.
A decision whether to conduct an auction for OAA - which could be worth over £500 million - will be made by the end of this year.
Airlines and airline service businesses from China, Europe and the US have put forward their expressions of interest in the academy. OAA's operations in Asia have attracted particular attention from potential buyers.
OAA was formed in a merger between UK and Hong Kong-based GE Commercial Aviation Training and Scandinavian SAS Flight Academy, which took place five years ago.
After acquiring Oxford Aviation Training, the firm was renamed Oxford Aviation Training in June 2007. US firm General Electric has a stake holding of less than 20 per cent.
Having been hit by the economic downturn three years ago, OAA has been restructured by its owners. Since the move it has rebounded strongly. Today it has over 600 staff and operates 105 training aircraft across the globe. Its earnings before interest tax, amortisation and depreciation have been estimated to be around £30 million.
Owners consider sale of Oxford Aviation Academy
Mon, 24 Oct 2011
By Hanna Sharpe
The main shareholder of Oxford Aviation Academy, British buy-out group Star Capital Partners, is mulling a sale of the global business.
Star Capital has received several expressions of interest in the pilot training and leasing provider business over the past few months. It is understood that Credit Suisse has been approached with the task of possibly selling the business.
A decision whether to conduct an auction for OAA - which could be worth over £500 million - will be made by the end of this year.
Airlines and airline service businesses from China, Europe and the US have put forward their expressions of interest in the academy. OAA's operations in Asia have attracted particular attention from potential buyers.
OAA was formed in a merger between UK and Hong Kong-based GE Commercial Aviation Training and Scandinavian SAS Flight Academy, which took place five years ago.
After acquiring Oxford Aviation Training, the firm was renamed Oxford Aviation Training in June 2007. US firm General Electric has a stake holding of less than 20 per cent.
Having been hit by the economic downturn three years ago, OAA has been restructured by its owners. Since the move it has rebounded strongly. Today it has over 600 staff and operates 105 training aircraft across the globe. Its earnings before interest tax, amortisation and depreciation have been estimated to be around £30 million.
Rumour has it that they are about to receive a significant blow to their Australian operation!!
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Recent story from the US now that the FAA have ratified the 1500 hour ATPL Co-pilot rule whilst CASA sit on their hands and deny there is a problem.
FAA proposes new rules for co-pilots - CBS News Video
FAA proposes new rules for co-pilots - CBS News Video
Kelpie,
OAA have apparently already lost one big contract which has gone interstate and due to start very soon.
OAA's loss is another school's gain.
EDIT: Nothing public as yet, but I believe plans are well advanced.
Looks like the trainee's will get a more consistent and realistic training as well
OAA have apparently already lost one big contract which has gone interstate and due to start very soon.
OAA's loss is another school's gain.
EDIT: Nothing public as yet, but I believe plans are well advanced.
Looks like the trainee's will get a more consistent and realistic training as well
Last edited by Going Nowhere; 29th Feb 2012 at 06:28.
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Going nowhere.
Maybe we talk about the same blow. I didn't know whether it was confirmed or common knowledge.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Maybe we talk about the same blow. I didn't know whether it was confirmed or common knowledge.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Last edited by The Kelpie; 29th Feb 2012 at 05:59.
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4 dogs
I believe the duration is the same at 6 weeks, as is i assume the content. Oxford were looking for $17k for the Traineeship up until recently.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
I believe the duration is the same at 6 weeks, as is i assume the content. Oxford were looking for $17k for the Traineeship up until recently.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Kelpie's previous post
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What the hell is it with these guys !!
New DOT Fines Qantas for Violating Price Advertising Rules
Mar 04,2012 - DOT Fines Qantas for Violating Price Advertising Rules
ST
Mar 04,2012 - DOT Fines Qantas for Violating Price Advertising Rules
The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) assessed a civil penalty of $40,000 against Qantas Airways, a carrier based in Australia, for violating federal aviation laws and the Department’s rules prohibiting deceptive price advertising in air travel.
“Ensuring that travelers know the full cost of their airline tickets before they buy them is just one way that DOT is continuing to protect consumers’ rights,” U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said. “Passengers deserve fair and honest treatment when they fly, and DOT’s passenger protections will help ensure that they receive that treatment before, during, and after their flights.”
“Ensuring that travelers know the full cost of their airline tickets before they buy them is just one way that DOT is continuing to protect consumers’ rights,” U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said. “Passengers deserve fair and honest treatment when they fly, and DOT’s passenger protections will help ensure that they receive that treatment before, during, and after their flights.”
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CASA, 'The Law', Pony Poo and wasting your money
This will be a real hoot of a conference, a 'must attend' for those who enjoy watching paint dry, mixing with the alleged elite of society or for those who like to sit around playing with themselves and compensating for their small weeners by sprouting off large intellectual words -
http://www.alaanz.org/pdf/ALAANZ-201...ry-Program.pdf
Some obvious highlights of the conference would be as follows:
Day 1 session 1 - Words of wisdom (or an anger outbust) by the Screaming Skull.
Day 1 session 4 - Just Culture by the one and only Mr Alleck. This should be great as Alleck potentialy rips apart the very model ICAO mandated.
It has been rumoured that end of day activities may include -
2000 - 2300 The day will end in a tea room lined with leather couches where all and sundry will relax in their slippers with cigars, panama hats, schnapps and canopes. The highlight will be a session of high level intellectual wankery where evey 14 letter large robust word in the English dictionary will be thrown around like confetti at a wedding, a 'must see'.
2300 - 2330 The inuagural 'Weener Measuring Chapionship'! A hilarious tradition among the elite who lack anything else of substance.
0001 - 0030 More hijinks as all compete in the 'Limp Handshake Contest'. Legal eagles take on their own in a robust competition where 'winner takes all'. Last years winner from Canberra Australia, Mr Flyingfiend is rumoured to have been preparing for months, exercising his hand muscles by writing a thesis on 'Aviation Witchdoctory - A Regulators Sorcery Tale', sharpening pencils, lifting cups of green tea and writing minutes.
Yes viewers, more of your tax money going to waste sending these bureaucrats on yet another overseas jolly!
P.S
A special thankyou to the CASA frontline staff who will be going about their business (shortstaffed no doubt) while valuable funds are pissed away in typical bureacratic style.
Now, where are my pig pictures!
P.S.S Apparently Kharon was invited to attend, and provide some recitals of Hamlet and Macbeth but he wisely declined, he could smell the stench of hyprocirsy, spin and pony poo from a mile away!
http://www.alaanz.org/pdf/ALAANZ-201...ry-Program.pdf
Some obvious highlights of the conference would be as follows:
Day 1 session 1 - Words of wisdom (or an anger outbust) by the Screaming Skull.
Day 1 session 4 - Just Culture by the one and only Mr Alleck. This should be great as Alleck potentialy rips apart the very model ICAO mandated.
It has been rumoured that end of day activities may include -
2000 - 2300 The day will end in a tea room lined with leather couches where all and sundry will relax in their slippers with cigars, panama hats, schnapps and canopes. The highlight will be a session of high level intellectual wankery where evey 14 letter large robust word in the English dictionary will be thrown around like confetti at a wedding, a 'must see'.
2300 - 2330 The inuagural 'Weener Measuring Chapionship'! A hilarious tradition among the elite who lack anything else of substance.
0001 - 0030 More hijinks as all compete in the 'Limp Handshake Contest'. Legal eagles take on their own in a robust competition where 'winner takes all'. Last years winner from Canberra Australia, Mr Flyingfiend is rumoured to have been preparing for months, exercising his hand muscles by writing a thesis on 'Aviation Witchdoctory - A Regulators Sorcery Tale', sharpening pencils, lifting cups of green tea and writing minutes.
Yes viewers, more of your tax money going to waste sending these bureaucrats on yet another overseas jolly!
P.S
A special thankyou to the CASA frontline staff who will be going about their business (shortstaffed no doubt) while valuable funds are pissed away in typical bureacratic style.
Now, where are my pig pictures!
P.S.S Apparently Kharon was invited to attend, and provide some recitals of Hamlet and Macbeth but he wisely declined, he could smell the stench of hyprocirsy, spin and pony poo from a mile away!
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One invitation – regrettably declined.
Then, 1 which I accepted; - there is so much more fun to had at the Senate these days. 
PS. GD - No more pig pix - no more Hamlet. King Lear only for you m'lad.
Hamlet: There's letters seal'd, and my two schoolfellows,
Whom I will trust as I will adders fang'd—
They bear the mandate, they must sweep my way
And marshal me to knavery. Let it work;
For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard, an't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon.
Whom I will trust as I will adders fang'd—
They bear the mandate, they must sweep my way
And marshal me to knavery. Let it work;
For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard, an't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon.
Last edited by Kharon; 6th Mar 2012 at 23:29. Reason: Mixamatosis - or wuz it swine fever ??. (Scatches head).
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