Merged: Senate Inquiry
Lester, I disagree...
BB is on the record implying that putting a 'properly trained' cadet straight into the right seat of 'high-capacity' rpt is better than other, worthless, experience. My point is that a prior-experienced pilot can and should also be trained properly into any airline, in which case the prior experience (even running a store in the Bungle Bungles to continue your corporate analogy) has to be worth more than none!
The Senate Inquiry spent months getting the views of stakeholders and summarising the input into important recommendations intended to improve standards in the aviation industry.
BB evidently believes he knows better, and that his opinion should be more important than everyone else who have FAR more long term experience (there's that word again) observing the aviation industry. I call that arrogant!
The Senate Inquiry spent months getting the views of stakeholders and summarising the input into important recommendations intended to improve standards in the aviation industry.
BB evidently believes he knows better, and that his opinion should be more important than everyone else who have FAR more long term experience (there's that word again) observing the aviation industry. I call that arrogant!
Last edited by Jetsbest; 25th Jun 2011 at 10:02. Reason: typos...
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I refer to recommendation 11 and 12;
11) The committee recommends that the Government undertake a review of the funding to CASA to ensure there is specific funding to support an expidited regulatory review process.
*They have been given voluminous amounts of cash which they persist in wasting on vindictive actions such as the Ovens affair. See link below. The committee should have put a time limit on the process, not give CASA funds to draw it out further*
CASA
12) The committee recommends that, as an ongoing measure, the Government provide the CASA with specific funding to enable it to offer salaries that are competitive with industry.
*Most all the misfits in CASA now, are there because they couldn't get or hold down a job in industry. This gives more power to Human Resources to "purchase" compliant friends for mentoring in such a way as nothing changes*
11) The committee recommends that the Government undertake a review of the funding to CASA to ensure there is specific funding to support an expidited regulatory review process.
*They have been given voluminous amounts of cash which they persist in wasting on vindictive actions such as the Ovens affair. See link below. The committee should have put a time limit on the process, not give CASA funds to draw it out further*
CASA
12) The committee recommends that, as an ongoing measure, the Government provide the CASA with specific funding to enable it to offer salaries that are competitive with industry.
*Most all the misfits in CASA now, are there because they couldn't get or hold down a job in industry. This gives more power to Human Resources to "purchase" compliant friends for mentoring in such a way as nothing changes*
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Frank - I can't remeber which recommendation it was - but in the actual full report it does draw attention to utilizing and allowing cross industry experience on a shared capacity - if this is given more attention it could fix the problem you've pointed to... We all know some foi's etc that fit your point but plenty which would love to continue flying AND try and help the industry through consultation and oversight of their work ESPECIALLY in reform processess such has been for the last 2 decades. Imagine that - a well thought out consultative, and engaged industry working in conjunction with the regulator through shared experience programs to enable safety in the industry...
Maybe I'm dreaming again. We are all cynical I guess due to watching history continue to repeat itself and the blind leading the blind approach of following corporate and beaurocraticnprocess so outdated and detremential to us all - the drive to the bottom may continue. But credit where credit is due this inquiry has been a long time coming and hats off to the senators for listening and trying to help us... Now we just action on the recomendations!!
Q&a Monday night - anyone going to sit int he audience? Got my questions ready...
Maybe I'm dreaming again. We are all cynical I guess due to watching history continue to repeat itself and the blind leading the blind approach of following corporate and beaurocraticnprocess so outdated and detremential to us all - the drive to the bottom may continue. But credit where credit is due this inquiry has been a long time coming and hats off to the senators for listening and trying to help us... Now we just action on the recomendations!!
Q&a Monday night - anyone going to sit int he audience? Got my questions ready...
Wow, I may be able to return to Australia after all! It has been frustrating, being deemed 'too experienced' (or to rephrase : not naive enough to accept 'advanced' cadet conditions) to become an FO in one's home country - fingers crossed these recommendations evolve into action. There are plenty of us working throughout Asia, Africa and beyond, just waiting for something worth returning to...
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Albanese is on Q&A on Monday night so why don't we all collectively mass e-mail the Q&A site with questions for the good (read inept) Minister!
Maybe get a number of recognizable people to send video questions!
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BIG GUNS not unions.
How about the Captain or any of the crew of QF 32. (Time to stand up lads)
Chuck that in yer pipe Albania. Good luck trying to find some support against those guys. They are heros in the Australian publics eye.
Untouchable.
Chuck that in yer pipe Albania. Good luck trying to find some support against those guys. They are heros in the Australian publics eye.
Untouchable.
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So Bruce Buchanan believes that adopting the Senate Recommendations will send pilot jobs overseas...
http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/airlines-dismiss-training-warning-20110623-1ghr6.html
"Jetstar chief executive Bruce Buchanan said the recommendation of a 1500- hour minimum hadn't been clearly thought through. Adopting the 1500-hour minimum, which captains must have, would have three unintended consequences that were bad for aviation, he said.
No jet training course could turn out students with 1500 hours' experience, meaning pilots would have to come through the traditional general aviation path, which ''delivers a lower outcome of performance standard'', he said.
Second, it would decimate regional aviation, as that's where the main carriers would recruit pilots from, and third, aspiring pilots would have to go overseas for training and jobs, he said."
Obviously Bruce wasn’t present at the Qantasia meeting... For this is exactly what the current Qantas Management is doing with pilot jobs... Sending them overseas!
Someone should tell BB that they’re already doing this... “Whoops!”
http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/airlines-dismiss-training-warning-20110623-1ghr6.html
"Jetstar chief executive Bruce Buchanan said the recommendation of a 1500- hour minimum hadn't been clearly thought through. Adopting the 1500-hour minimum, which captains must have, would have three unintended consequences that were bad for aviation, he said.
No jet training course could turn out students with 1500 hours' experience, meaning pilots would have to come through the traditional general aviation path, which ''delivers a lower outcome of performance standard'', he said.
Second, it would decimate regional aviation, as that's where the main carriers would recruit pilots from, and third, aspiring pilots would have to go overseas for training and jobs, he said."
Obviously Bruce wasn’t present at the Qantasia meeting... For this is exactly what the current Qantas Management is doing with pilot jobs... Sending them overseas!
Someone should tell BB that they’re already doing this... “Whoops!”
Oh well it was only a long shot!
I looked at the list of questions prior to the start of the show and there was at least 5 questions focussed on the Senate Inquiry Report in the recent 200 asked and approved.
Must be time to bombard the ministers e-mail, till it goes viral!
I looked at the list of questions prior to the start of the show and there was at least 5 questions focussed on the Senate Inquiry Report in the recent 200 asked and approved.
Must be time to bombard the ministers e-mail, till it goes viral!
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Quite a number of aviation related tweets I hear went to #qanda last night but none made it to air ......
....maybe a qanda episode without mindnumbing rhetoric about climate change and boat people (just once) would leave time for other issues!!!!
yep - definately time to pressure the Minister for Mascot and his tribal council of (small m) minders - but don't be too direct as the pathway back to Q is very short these days. Might be better to arm the Opposition and slip a few breadcrumb trails to the smarter journos?
Speaking of the Minister's minders - I'm very reliably informed that a copy of the Senate Inquiry went to QF BEFORE it was tabled. Typically these kind of reports understandably go to Ministers etc., prior to publication - but in addition to the reliable tip off - a CC has sent me a copy of standing order to Q CC redefining the FRMS policy and procedure.
According to the CC it was written and approved the day prior to the release of the Senate Inquiry Report and there allegedly was no consultation with their Unions, OHS Committees or even the crew themselves. Having a read it seems a very hasty document with more than a few critical flaws. - Also would have thought that it would have been appropriate to notify the Regulator (the order is after all part of the ever changing, QF multiple choice, which version is that in, Operator's Manual....)
Given FRMS is the one very weak knee in Joyce's offshore adventure agenda it does seem more than a convenient coincidence.
AT
#nomoredullclimatechangestuffonqandaplease
PS: From another source, I hear there's more than a bit of lobbying going on re: a hefty grant app from Q & its associates re biofuels. Q has already put in a bucketload of cash but not a word from Joyce on how much and the projected ROI. For that matter - even which business unit funded it
....maybe a qanda episode without mindnumbing rhetoric about climate change and boat people (just once) would leave time for other issues!!!!
yep - definately time to pressure the Minister for Mascot and his tribal council of (small m) minders - but don't be too direct as the pathway back to Q is very short these days. Might be better to arm the Opposition and slip a few breadcrumb trails to the smarter journos?
Speaking of the Minister's minders - I'm very reliably informed that a copy of the Senate Inquiry went to QF BEFORE it was tabled. Typically these kind of reports understandably go to Ministers etc., prior to publication - but in addition to the reliable tip off - a CC has sent me a copy of standing order to Q CC redefining the FRMS policy and procedure.
According to the CC it was written and approved the day prior to the release of the Senate Inquiry Report and there allegedly was no consultation with their Unions, OHS Committees or even the crew themselves. Having a read it seems a very hasty document with more than a few critical flaws. - Also would have thought that it would have been appropriate to notify the Regulator (the order is after all part of the ever changing, QF multiple choice, which version is that in, Operator's Manual....)
Given FRMS is the one very weak knee in Joyce's offshore adventure agenda it does seem more than a convenient coincidence.
AT
#nomoredullclimatechangestuffonqandaplease
PS: From another source, I hear there's more than a bit of lobbying going on re: a hefty grant app from Q & its associates re biofuels. Q has already put in a bucketload of cash but not a word from Joyce on how much and the projected ROI. For that matter - even which business unit funded it
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Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee
Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee
- Pilot training and airline safety; and
- Consideration of the Transport Safety Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports) Bill 2010
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Following the report being published bothboth Joyce and Buchanan, trough their respective organizations have rejected the view of the committee that employing pilots with less hours is less safe than the present arrangements. Given the authoritative evidence given by them and their peers, together with industry experts, this is a pretty arrogant approach at best.
This is certainly not the attitude of two airline CEO's that claim to put safety as a number one priority!!
Such a company would accept the fact that others, after careful consideration believe safety is being compromised and take appropriate action instead of the arrogance they have shown.
They have shown their true colours to the committee that improving safety has nothing to do with it, it is all about the cash.
Qf32 FO, MH in his final statement for 4 corners summed it up nicely when he said that to work in this industry you have to have an certain kind of openness otherwise people will just get killed, it's as simple as that. For those who don't want to do it, you are in the wrong industry!!
Alan / Bruce you are certainly not open to other views and it seems yours is the only view you are willing to consider. Time to get out of aviation I think and find an industry more fitting of your arrogance -if there is one of course!
More to Follow
The Kelpie
This is certainly not the attitude of two airline CEO's that claim to put safety as a number one priority!!
Such a company would accept the fact that others, after careful consideration believe safety is being compromised and take appropriate action instead of the arrogance they have shown.
They have shown their true colours to the committee that improving safety has nothing to do with it, it is all about the cash.
Qf32 FO, MH in his final statement for 4 corners summed it up nicely when he said that to work in this industry you have to have an certain kind of openness otherwise people will just get killed, it's as simple as that. For those who don't want to do it, you are in the wrong industry!!
Alan / Bruce you are certainly not open to other views and it seems yours is the only view you are willing to consider. Time to get out of aviation I think and find an industry more fitting of your arrogance -if there is one of course!
More to Follow
The Kelpie
QF cadets for some time now have been told to go into industry for 2 years (lets pretend the cadet scheme actually follows the stated timeline) to gain experience, before becoming a Second Officer.
Now AJ and BB are saying it is safer to go straight to the right hand seat for the Jetstar Cadets. Should the QF guys start asking the question, why are we doing 2 years in industry and then becoming a Second Officer if it's only going to make us worse pilots?
Now AJ and BB are saying it is safer to go straight to the right hand seat for the Jetstar Cadets. Should the QF guys start asking the question, why are we doing 2 years in industry and then becoming a Second Officer if it's only going to make us worse pilots?