Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Merged: Senate Inquiry

Old 20th Nov 2014, 23:19
  #2401 (permalink)  
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Addendum - Beaker & the MH370 spotlight??

Kharon - Coincidence is a queer thing; most of the famous detectives won't have a bar of it. MOU - Date, timing and wording – but "shadow" arrangements do not, in any way deflect the liability of the 'ultimately' responsible person. does that mean that our pumpkin headed Mandarin has ultimate carriage of the final outcome of the MH370 search mission...

While on the subject of Beaker & Co and the FAA/ICAO...

The following comment from Confirmed Sceptic to Ben's article - Pel-Air and Seaview anniversaries highlight safety failures - hits the nail on head...
Confirmed Sceptic
Posted November 19, 2014 at 3:30 pm | Permalink
The NTSB, and now the ATSB are both suffering from underfunding. The ATSB is also suffering from a massive credibility deficit. Don’t get me started on the unspeakable CASA. Among my corespondents in other air regulators CASA is a joke in search of a punchline. There is a small but very real chance that the FAA may find the time to do the unpalatable and find CASA unreliable, and hence impugn all airlines regulated by it.

I think the Abbott government should bitch a little louder about Obama’s words on climate change. It would be fun to see a little diplomatic pissing contest involve CASA, which is very low hanging fruit.
Rumour has it that the FAA definitely have a strong desire to conduct a follow up audit of Australia but are simply under resourced (i.e. cash strapped) to do so. However could that situation drastically change if ICAO were given further evidence of the State aviation safety authorities taking the Mickey bliss to their obligations as a signatory to ICAO...

Moving on for now and back to the subject of Beaker & MH370...

The following is interesting as it is addressed to our infamous muppet:
Brock McEwen
PostedSeptember 24, 2014 at 9:33 AM

Open Letter: Request for Public Disclosure on MH370 Investigation
September 24, 2014
Dear MH370 Search Team Leadership (c/o Martin Dolan, Commissioner, Australian Transport Safety Bureau),
Hundreds of experts – both inside and outside the formal investigation – have been working for 200 days, now, in an effort to determine MH370’s fate. The collective failure even to search properly, let alone find anything, has sparked frustration and finger-pointing, as a baffling lack of consensus on basic data has pitted stakeholders against each other. Families of MH370’s passengers and crew – stretched taut on the rack between hope and grief – deserve better than this.
A more fulsome disclosure of your team’s working assumptions – in support of performance and radar-tracked path analysis in particular – would not only “clear the air”, and dispel growing suspicions concerning the veracity of this search, but is quite likely to expedite search zone refinement: “crowd-sourced” insights stemming from the eventual partial publication of Inmarsat data have already demonstrated clearly the value of such disclosure.
Accordingly, we ask the Search Team Leadership to disclose the following elements of its basic internal working assumptions. For each assumption, please publicly disclose initial (i.e. mid-March), all interim, and current (i.e. mid-September) working best estimate(s), as well as date ranges over which each was effective:
PART A: DATA (all items have already been referenced in public statements, and are thus, we trust, readily available)
1. Full set of Inmarsat ping ring radii (in nmi), and associated satellite position (latitude/longitude in degrees/minutes)
2. Amount by which radar-indicated speeds were judged to reduce post-radar range, as percent of initial post-radar range
2a. for each version of the above: minimum and maximum speeds (in KTAS) outside of which fuel exhaustion was assumed to occur prior to 00:19 UTC (i.e. feasibility limits, expressed in KTAS)
3. Point at which MH370 turned south around/near Sumatra, expressed as a specific coordinate (latitude/longitude in degrees/minutes); where a range was contemplated, please supply the range – but indicate clearly the single coordinate which drove the “highest priority/probability” search location. If a slow turn was modeled, please indicate its north-western extreme.
4. Feasibility ranges derived from the above, expressed as a coordinate pair along the 7th Inmarsat arc (where a range of turn south points informs the feasibility coordinates, please also disclose what these coordinates would be if the “later turn south” assumption were abandoned (i.e. “early turn south only”).
PART B: RECONCILIATION: In addition, please reconcile each of the above to each of the following:
a) Original search zone, based (presumably) on neither “heavier fuel burn” nor “later turn south”
b) Mar.28 ATSB Media Release #2 announcing 600nmi shift NE, expressing confidence in “heavier fuel burn”
c) Apr.1 JIT advice to ATSB causing a further 750nmi shift NE, expressing confidence in “later turn south”
d) May 1 release of maps accompanying MH370 Preliminary Report (especially the “highest probability” path)
e) June shift back SW, (in Jun.24 Malaysia Chronicle interview) retracting confidence in “heavier fuel burn”
f) Jun.26 “MH370 – Definition of Underwater Search Areas” Report: all performance limits and search zones
g) August shift further SW, (in Aug.28 statement by Warren Truss) retracting confidence in “later turn south”
Thank you in advance for your attention. Please be advised that failure to supply PART A by Day 210 (Oct 4) and PART B by Day 225 (Oct 19) will trigger an online petition designed to gauge international public opinion on this matter.
Should evidence of MH370’s fate surface in the interim, the need for this disclosure will remain. If the jet is located, the above documentation will be required to dispel any suspicions of evidence tampering, and will prove vital to what we trust is surely our shared goal: getting to the truth, to offer closure for passengers’ families and friends.
Brock McEwen, on behalf of a frustrated general public
Not sure if Brock got a satisfactory response from Beaker but if he did I would be inclined to heavily scrutinise the factual content (in amongst the weasel words) of the reply...

I also came across an interesting story from NBC news titled - Girlfriend of MH370 Passenger: 'Something Is Being Covered Up' - that has many disturbing parallels to the PelAir cover-up...

As relatives marked the six month anniversary of the Boeing 777’s disappearance Monday, Sarah Bajc told NBC News she believes that there “are active steps being taken to interfere with finding the plane.”
“Our opinion, the family members’ opinion, has been the same since the very beginning that we need an independent investigating group who has access to all the native information, so including military radar records, to be able to go back and start the investigation from the beginning to see if we can find out what happened,” she said.

“I think that if the existing investigation team is left in charge … we may not ever find the plane. Because I believe there are active steps being taken to interfere with finding the plane,” she said,

Asked what she meant, Bajc said she wasn’t sure. “Failure to release information - whether its obfuscation, you know, actually covering something up - or dishonesty… creating false evidence or just hiding something, right? We don’t know why or what is being covered up, but something is being covered up.”

She said the Australian investigators, who have been working alongside the Malaysian team to find the jet in its presumed location in the southern Indian Ocean, “should be very embarrassed by their behavior so far,” adding: “They pursued a path of underwater pings long after it was very clear they weren’t accurate. They have not had the strength of will to force Malaysia to open up all if its records.” comment required except to say TICK...TOCK Beaker and the Mandarin providing top cover for him...

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Old 21st Nov 2014, 04:26
  #2402 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Sarcs there seems to be a problem with the link to the Tripartite Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) - post #2543. For those interested in reviewing the MoU the link below will take you to Zippyshare, where a user friendly version may be downloaded.

Only click on the

to avoid unwanted spam.


Nice work boys.....

P26. a.k.a. 36-24-36.
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Old 21st Nov 2014, 10:55
  #2403 (permalink)  
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Scrambling for loose change

Australian Transport Safety Bureau has lost 12 percent of staff due to $2 million budget cuts.
Chief Commissioner says the agency has lost more than 200 years of combined experience in the same year as two Malaysian Airlines disasters.
Incompetent clowns. A bunch of brain dead zombies. For the sake of $2m, (probably what they spend quarterly at Parliament House on coffee, biscuits, cut sandwiches and apple juice for all those busy worker bees) the Government bean counters cull 12% and 200 years worth of experience from the once reputable Investigator?? It really goes to show why this country is rooted! That amount of money would be spent per week at least on pilots, fighter jets, ordinance and sorties over Afghanistan!

You know what, ICAO and the FAA really do need to come back an have a very close look at what an even bigger cluster f#ck this countries aviation has become. The tin of turd polish has truly run dry.
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Old 21st Nov 2014, 19:46
  #2404 (permalink)  
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Of Crocs, snakes, sharks and spiders.

Sarcs - #2456 "Rumour has it that the FAA definitely have a strong desire to conduct a follow up audit of Australia but are simply under resourced (i.e. cash strapped) to do so. However could that situation drastically change if ICAO were given further evidence of the State aviation safety authorities taking the Mickey bliss to their obligations as a signatory to ICAO."
I wonder; "what if" the 'passengers' on the Pel Air ditched West-wind had been American. What response we would have got from the FAA then – or, had they been 'European'. One of the neatly covered over (not known, or just ignored) big ticket items is the treatment of the 'victims' after the event. I wonder, if the aftermath were widely known would other ICAO NAA or the media just sit back then. Oh boy.. Imagine if the USA version of 'Sixty minutes' got onto a little tale like this one if US citizens were involved –

Now I am not 100% certain of all the facts or the legal swings and roundabouts; but since the incident, I hear the female patient has, out of sheer frustration been forced to seek psychiatric assistance, not just because of the incident, but because of the strain and stress of trying to gain some meaningful 'assistance'; rumour has it the house has been sold to pay legal fees and the marriage on rocky ground. The lady's passenger husband is having all manner of problems, the travelling doctor is having all manner of problems. As for Karen the flight nurse and Dominic, the pilot, the happy world they used to live in has been destroyed, shattered, for ever. This directly attributable to the aftermath of the duck up and subsequent attempted cover up, by people still gainfully employed within the Australian aviation safety system. Go-figure..

The post event damage bill has been massive – in human terms. Now we get folk from all corners of the world visiting, they get sick and their insurance would provide for a 'medi-vac', where required. This then becomes an international issue where the same post event 'treatment' will be afforded to any, who use an Australian 'patient transfer' aircraft involved, in the event of an accident. Translated – it means if you travel on an 'Airwork' category flight, read the policy fine print. The one certainty is that it's not written to assist you, should you have the temerity to survive, that is..

I doubt it would kick off WW III, but foreign NAA do have a responsibility to 'protect' their nationals. To allow their nationals to continue travelling under a flawed, manipulated aviation safety legislative system, where the probability of a pre-determined outcome and cover up, which affects the insurance payout are likely, places that NAA in a 'queer' position; particularly so if they are aware that probability exists.

As we have now seen publicly demonstrated, this manipulation has had a direct impact on the ability of those involved to claim compensation under this highly compromised system. If the 'aviation system' was set to rights, the need for expensive, post accident litigation would be removed.

Perhaps, if the FAA are short a few bucks, Obama could donate his green fees to the cause and send the very best team the FAA can put together for a short visit to the great empty land – Down-under. In the national interest; maybe they can visit our Barrier reef and take some happy snaps and 'selfies' back home, when they go...

Visitors are said to be worried about our crocodiles, sharks, snakes and spiders out in the wilds. Rightfully so, but the most dangerous of those species reside in air conditioned comfort, in an office building, or swimming pool, very near you.

"Change for a nine dollar note, certainly Sir; now, would you like that in three's ?".

Toot toot..

Last edited by Kharon; 21st Nov 2014 at 20:26.
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Old 21st Nov 2014, 20:52
  #2405 (permalink)  
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Be an interesting question for the good senators at estimates Kharon.

How many of the two hundred years of experience Beaker made redundant were bean counters, how many were coal face workers?

Bet I know the answer.

Same same CAsA's employment program.

We get an increase in fuel excise, allegedly because CAsA is desperate for additional ninety coal face staff. What do we get?

Ninety bloody managers.

What did they need the additional staff for anyway? Pilot numbers are in decline, hours flown are in decline, and I would hazard a guess the real number of aircraft is in decline.

I would hazard that the extra staff were required to interpret and explain what their incompetent lawyers have put in the alleged reformed regulations.

Hells bells the Kiwi's can enunciate a complete rule set for flight standards in 80 odd pages, the yanks the same.

Is the CAsA legal fraternity so incompetent, so inept, that they require over 1500 pages and even then nobody seems to understand them, with so many inconsistencies the High Court would probably have to sit continuously for ten years to decide what the hell they mean.

If Part 61 is as it is, looming down the track is Part 135.

Be afraid, be very afraid, I've read the draft.

Mr Minicule if your awake, very sorry you've got the shits, but it appears the industry has as well, but I don't think its the same bug.

You could save everyone a lot of money by simply banning all forms of aviation in Australia except high capacity RPT and the RAAF, its going to happen anyway under the CAsA regime, just later rather than sooner.

Come to think of it why include RPT, the RAAF could undertake that as well, think of the promo's

"Come fly with the Skygods!! they'll get you there"

Last edited by thorn bird; 22nd Nov 2014 at 03:46.
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Old 21st Nov 2014, 21:35
  #2406 (permalink)  
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International AAI obfuscation & the Pinocchio theory.

Steady on Thorny you will have the 'thought police' knocking on your door if your not careful... Get on the same page here man! The Mandarins & Muppets are on the next chapter titled - 'Beyond all Sensible Reason' (BASR) - not the 'Reason Model' chapter...

Talking of Mandarins, Muppets with a dose of international diplomatic obfuscation it would seem the Dutch have also drifted to the dark side in taking the Mickey Bliss out of ICAO Annex 13&19...: Dutch government refuses to reveal ‘secret deal’ into MH17 crash probe

This tweeper asks a pertinent question
Could anyone call #MH17 investigation independent, if it runs by NATO and denies Malaysia, the owner of the plane, participation??
Moving on and back to the BASR Beaker, I noted that the MSM (SMH) have put out a vomitus piece on our infamous muppet Beaker... (Warning: BYO Bucket definitely required ): The world's biggest mystery is in Martin Dolan's sights

Not going to give this puerile piece any more coverage than it deserves but I will quote the relevant bit (in between dry heaving) in regards to the PelAir 'Duck Up':
He also oversaw the investigation into the ditching of a Pel-Air ambulance plane off Norfolk Island in 2009. Amazingly, all six people on board survived the crash.

A senate committee slammed the bureau's handling of the inquiry, criticising its report for focusing on the pilot's actions and lacking analysis or details of factors that assist the wider industry.

Dolan says the government accepted the bureau's advice that no safety purpose would be served by reopening the investigation as was urged by the committee.

At the bureau's request, he adds, Canadian transport safety regulators are currently conducting a peer-review of the the body's policies and how they were implemented in several investigations, including Pel-Air.

"We learnt that there are different views of our work and how we do it and that aviation safety is an area where people have different views and they don't always agree with you," Dolan says.
I would be extremely interested in how much Murky Machiavellian & Co paid for this obvious attempt to humanise such a severely discredited muppet (i.e. the Pinocchio fix)...

Oh well back to trolling...
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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 07:07
  #2407 (permalink)  
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Dolan says the government accepted the bureau's advice that no safety purpose would be served by reopening the investigation as was urged by the committee.
Ironically, I agree there would be no safety purpose.

Even if the ATSB had the corporate integrity, it no longer has the corporate competence to do adequate investigations.
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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 08:37
  #2408 (permalink)  
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Creampuff gets a chocy frog for causing me to have a lightbulb moment;

Ironically, I agree there would be no safety purpose.
Even if the ATSB had the corporate integrity, it no longer has the corporate competence to do adequate investigations.
So considering the ATSB's sole function is not to investigate accidents thoroughly, rather it is to protect the Government from bad publicity, I totally agree with the budget cut and redundancies!!! Cull another dozen investigators along with admin staff, cleaners, office leases and so forth. Then employ just a handful of PR people, one HR administrator and get rid of all three Commisioners and hand over their no longer relevant function to their puppet master MrDak who can handball running the department to the twerps in PMC. I reckon that will save the penny pinching Government $20m per year.

Investigators, what investigators?
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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 09:00
  #2409 (permalink)  
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Simply Marvellous Horse-pooh (SMH).

SMH: The 57-year-old is helping solve what remains the greatest aviation mystery of all time: the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.
This, all without any technical qualification (NFI in industry parlance). Doesn't it therefore qualify (technically) as a 'porky'? - in light of the Senate report of the Pel Air inquiry. I believe, some of the words used in Hansard transcript were: unreliable, disingenuous and untenable. Although industry further accords the "beyond all reason" approach as being directly attributable to "the team leader". Yet our beloved Bea-cur can sit there; stuffing his now shaved face with spaghetti, intimating (in public) that 'he' (probably only he alone) will solve the MH 370 riddle: industry is overwhelmed and simply says "it's beyond all reason".

SMH :As head of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, he is leading the search for the jet, concentrated deep in the southern Indian Ocean off the coast of Perth.
This 'leading' is done mind you, without any technical qualification (NFI in industry parlance). Doesn't it therefore qualify (technically) as a 'porky'? - in light of the Senate report into the Pel Air inquiry. I believe some of the words used in Hansard were: unreliable, disingenuous and untenable, industry simply says "it's beyond all reason".

SMH : "Sometimes I'm tempted to say 'oh yes, we've found it we're just not telling you'," he says. He quickly clarifies that he's joking.
They do say his water cooler nickname is "laughing boy". Oh yes, the famous Dolan sense of humour at work, a pawky wit and a fine sense of the ridiculous"; dry as sticks. Industry simply says "it's beyond all reason".

Oh if the gods the power would give us, to see ourselves as others see us".

SMH : Since the disappearance, conspiracy theorists have been busy trying to solve the mystery themselves
I wonder why they (all 19,513,305 looking at the humble PPRuNe) would bother; when we have Martin, he of beyond all reason, showing the way. Industry simply says "it's beyond all reason". No, it's all good with Guru Beacur leading the way and guiding a happy, clappy crew of expert accident investigators to Nirvana....Mind you, it's not that they'll do very many, what with the cost of essential 'admin' to juggle and all.

SMH : It's because you've got this big mystery and everyone wants to know the answer and everyone wants to help. It's unhelpful, for the sake of the families more than anything else, in the sense that it has the potential to undermine confidence in what we are doing," he says.
Well, that's fair. What with Martin, being such a bloody Whizz bang, highly qualified investigator – it's just an insult to a fine, instigative mind to have these tendentious bloggers 'assisting'. 'Amateur' experts; are, like Annexe 13, surplus to requirements; and with such a gifted, qualified investigator at the helm, tendentious 'bloggers' – and all associated riff raff need not apply.
SMH - The Boeing 777 vanished with 239 people on board en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing in March. There has been no sign of it since.
Finally – truth and reality in one small; but, oh so sweet paragraph. Bravo.

SMH : He opts for the spaghetti alla carbonara and I choose the tortellini di zucca.
And you managed to keep it down?. Oh, well done that leading light of journalistic clap trap.

SMH: Commitment to the public service has been a consistent feature of his life.
"True dat" edit ...Commitment to the public service, and only the public service has been a consistent feature of his life.

SMH - The position marked the start of 35 years in the Commonwealth public service, in which he has added various corporate management roles, including chief executive of Comcare and Chief Finance Officer in the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry.
Which, of course is why he is so well equipped to lead a crack team of clerical staff to assist; this, despite the 200 year deficiency in 'accident' investigations skills; no matter. Bea-cur will come through with swimming colours, once again. Just as he did in the Pel Air inquiry – covered in glory, the praises of the Senate ringing in his heroic ears and the total, complete and utter support of the aviation industry which, by the by, cannot say enough good things about this doyen of safety, this pillar of the beyond all ducking reason model for accident investigation.

Aye. No doubt the MH 370 families will sleep much better now, knowing that Beacur can manage 'spaghetti"; the fish balls were (of course) - imported from Norfolk Island, in commemoration of the outstanding efforts, made on behalf of air safety.

SMH : "I had a moment of revelation in front of a high school English class in Coffs Harbour as I did practice teaching. I looked at them, they looked at me and we realised this was never going to work," Dolan says.
What a Déjà vu moment, as history repeats; like a bad prawn. The music? – Oh, that's 'Believe it, if you like': played by the public service string quartet (conducted by?) yes; you guessed it – Our hero.

Sorry boys and girls; I have to stop here, can't type more, for the tears. Whether they be of laughter (only slightly hysterical); or, of sorrow (for those lost at sea) is uncertain. But, such is life; and, I may add, life is such. I belive I could go on, to the end of the SMH offering, but reality calls and tempus fugit (not to mention tempers).

Dinner Minnie and get that bloody cat off my chair.

How do you spell genius? – Ayup, Guinness is correct. Where's my Choc frog...?...

Last edited by Kharon; 22nd Nov 2014 at 19:44.
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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 10:24
  #2410 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Of chocolate frogs, money tins and muppets

What is frightening about Beaker is that he actually believes he is a skilled, respected, envied consummate safety professional executive....tsk tsk tsk Monsieur Beaker
Over 6 years ago there could little if no mi mi mi mi found within the ATSB. Then along came the doyen of spreadsheets, the master of the money tin, the so called Svengali of safety - Martin. Just over 5 years later we now have a third world safety bureau run by a non investigatory executive management team who have been pussy whipped by CASA (something that would never have happened once upon a time) and they have their plums tightly held by the Government of the day. Yes, the ATSB has become a dysfunctional and poorly managed national embarrassment. The once world leading, reputable, enviable department has become a sham, a laughing stock, a mockery amongst its international peers.

Don't be fooled. If MH370 is found it will have nothing to do personally with the beardless Beaker. The only involvement he has is to check the balance sheet daily to ensure overtime isn't allowed and only cheap brand consumables are purchased for the coffee craving Investigators. Martin will provide the odd media release (written by someone else), occasionally make a muppet of himself on TV and that is where his real involvement ends.

Chocolate frog count as of the last ball of the days play -
Kharon = 1 Creampuff = 1 Beaker = 0

Last edited by Soteria; 22nd Nov 2014 at 10:35.
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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 20:21
  #2411 (permalink)  
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The "beyond" program is a function of the MOU.

The murky Macavellian decreed that acronyms should be aligned as much as possible across all departments.

Apparently because he is the shadow manager (SM) of what these organizations do and given bureaucrats pathological obsession with having acronyms (POWHA) for everything, it saves him considerable time referring to the glossary all the time to find out what they mean.

For example, the actual employees are, as they say in the service, "Smoke generators" (SG's).

The upper management are " Smart mirror deflectors" SMD's.

The ATSB has their "Beyond all sensible reason" or BASR Model.

CAsA has their "Beyond all sensible regulation" or BASR Model.

Haven't been able to find out if there has been any alignment in the pink Bats department (PBD), or the building the education revolution (BTERD), or the flog off general aviation airports (FOGAAD) departments, but rumor on the street is the SG's have been very busy generating a lot of smoke.
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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 21:11
  #2412 (permalink)  
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Thumbs up Bucket of choccy frogs for Kharon...

...and a gold star or it!

Interesting thing on the airwaves is Sir Tim is making a revival tour on his MH370 scepticism...:
'Information on missing MH370 is being withheld,' says boss of Emirates airline
  • A full transcript of Sir Tim Clark's interview has been made public
  • Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 disappeared on March 8, 2014
  • There were 239 people on board the flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing
  • Sir Tim has also said the somebody took control of the aircraft before it vanished
  • The Emirates CEO said the industry must not accept MH370's a 'mystery'
By Sally Lee for Daily Mail Australia
Published: 16:01 AEST, 22 November 2014 | Updated: 21:59 AEST, 22 November 2014

The chief executive of Emirates believes information on missing aircraft MH370 is being withheld by authorities.

This was revealed in a formerly unpublished full transcript of an interview conducted by well-known aviation journalist Andreas Spaeth, which has been made available on the Sydney Morning Herald.

Sir Tim Clark further questioned the role of the Malaysian military after the Malaysian Airlines flight disappeared on March 8 this year carrying 239 people, including six Australians, while en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

'I think we will know more if there is full transparency of everything that everybody knows. I do not believe that the information held by some is on the table,' he said in the interview.

'Who actually disabled ACARS [the plane's Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System], who knew how to do it?

'If you eliminate the pilot on a suicide mission, I'm sure you could have put the aircraft in the South China Sea, rather than fly it for seven hours. So if he was on a suicide mission, he would have done it then. Who then took control of the aircraft? Who then knew how to disable ACARS and turn the transponder off? That is a huge challenge.'

When asked whether he can comprehend the mysterious disappearance of a plane in this day and age, Sir Clark responded:

'Therein lies this huge question mark in my mind. I know this did not have to happen, there is technology to track these aircraft and everybody will say that, Boeing or Airbus.

'That is where the conundrum is of mystery, that is where we must be more forthright and candid as to what went on, it is not good enough for the Malaysian military to say: "On a prime radar we identified it as 'friendly'".'

Sir Tim, who's airline Emirates operates almost 130 Boeing 777 aircraft - similar to the doomed jet, added the role of the Malaysian military has been 'bizarre'.

'This is a very busy part of Southeast Asia, the notion that we should not be able to identify if it is friend or foe, or we can on primary radar and do nothing about it, is bizarre,' he said.

'What would have happened if the aircraft would have turned back to fly into the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur? But we identified it as "friendly"? Friendly with intent, or friendly without intent? But what was done? These are the questions that need to be asked of the people and the entities that were involved in all of this. Full transparency of that will help us to find out what went on.'

In Spaeth's article, which was published for German magazine Spiege last month, Sir Tim also claimed that 'control was taken of' Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 before it vanished.

Sir Tim said it was very important that the airline industry does not accept that the fate of MH370 is an 'unexplained mystery'.

'MH370 remains one of the great aviation mysteries. Personally, I have the concern that we will treat it as such and move on. At the most, it might then make an appearance on National Geographic as one of aviation's great mysteries. We mustn't allow this to happen. We must know what caused that airplane to disappear,' Sir Tim said.

Earlier this week, the government created a video to explain to the heartbroken families of MH370 victims why their loved ones have still not been found after eight months.

In the four-minute video, posted by the Joint Agency Coordination Centre on YouTube, authorities attempt to explain why the search mission has taken so long and why the search area continues to be based along the seventh arc in the southern Indian Ocean, an area with incredibly deep water and rough conditions.

The arc is described as 'a thin long line that identifies all the possible points the last communication between the aircraft and the communication satellite could have taken place'.

Trying to calm recent fears that the Australian-led search operation in the southern Indian Ocean off the coast of Perth in Western Australia could be stopped, the video says: 'The expert satellite working group is continually refining analysis of the available data to identify the areas of the highest priority for the search.'

Relatives of MH370 passengers were outraged last week after a senior Malaysia Airlines representative allegedly said the beleaguered carrier is planning on officially declaring the plane 'lost', which would call off the search.

Read more: Emirates CEO Sir Tim Clark believes MH370 information is being withheld | Daily Mail Online
Oh Dear it would appear that Sir Tim is a serious supporter of James Reason's 20th Century model?? Bea- Cur and M&M better rifle off a memo to Dubai on the Beyond All Sensible Reason model that the forward thinking Aussies are apparently now such strong proponents off...

Here is an idea maybe Sir Tim could lend the fully independent WIOS (World Ills Of Society) experts a B777 to fly along the couple of FIR boundaries to see what the various DIPs radar installations could or couldn't see... The real thing is so much better than a simulator...

While Sir Tim is writing out cheques could he swing some loose change to bean-counter Bea-Cur to help recover VH-NGA's CVR/FDR... it a dry run for when Bea-Cur solves the greatest aviation mystery of the world...

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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 23:35
  #2413 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,372
Let's get it out in the open folks; the Government hates private aviation. CASA hates private and GA aviation. The RAAF hates private and GA aviation. The ATSB hates private and GA aviation.

The RAAF believe that only RAAF training should be allowed and all airline pilot jobs should be reserved for former RAAF pilots.

The RAA is about to be destroyed via the demise of jabiru, the SAAA is next.

Could. I be forgiven for thinking that every hand is raised against us?

Isn't it time that the feeling is returned?
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Old 23rd Nov 2014, 06:04
  #2414 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,942
In my opinion, if nothing else, the SMH feature on Mr. Dolan illustrates the the fact that the Commonwealth bureaucracy hold the aviation sector (and the public in general) and the Commonwealth Parliament and its MHRs and Senators in complete contempt.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 23rd Nov 2014, 07:49
  #2415 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 613
In my opinion, if nothing else, the SMH feature on Mr. Dolan illustrates the fact that the Commonwealth bureaucracy hold the aviation sector (and the public in general) and the Commonwealth Parliament and its MHRs and Senators in complete contempt.
Well said Lead Sled.

Also relevant perhaps:

Justice Rich … pointed out, many years ago, that there does not need to be a legal definition of wrongdoing for a charge of misconduct on the part of a solicitor. His Honour considered that it is enough that the conduct in question is indicative of a failure to understand "the precepts of honesty and fair dealing in relation to the courts, his clients and the public". To this may be added that honesty in a lawyer must extend to self analysis.
Source: Ethics and The Profession Of The Lawyer, The Hon Justice Susan Kiefel, High Court of Australia - Queensland Law Society, The Vincents' 48th annual Symposium 2010, 26 March 2010.

Now, if Justice Kiefel's quote was amended to read:

There does not need to be a legal definition of wrongdoing for a charge of misconduct on the part of a public servant. It is enough that the conduct in question is indicative of a failure to understand "the precepts of honesty and fair dealing" in relation to the parliament and the public. To this may be added that honesty in a public servant must extend to self analysis.

...then that's probably getting awfully close to what the industry is thinking about the conduct that's been associated so far by certain people in this disgraceful episode.
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Old 23rd Nov 2014, 18:44
  #2416 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
And now, for the real deal -

The chief executive of Emirates believes information on missing aircraft MH370 is being withheld by authorities.
Not by Australia, surely not. Shock, horror, where would a notion like that come from?, not from a harmless, toothless Senate inquiry, surely.

"[This] was revealed in a formerly unpublished full transcript of an interview conducted by well-known aviation journalist Andreas Spaeth, which has been made available on the" etc
Hullo, wuz this : a real 'aviation' journalist talking with someone from the industry who actually has clue. This is much better than a discussion of what failed schoolteachers have for lunch. Sir Tim – here - will have some clever kids looking hard at the 'data' and a simulator working OT, the results may never be published, but word will inevitably, albeit slowly leak out. Whether the 'vested' interests will ever allow the studies into the public domain, let alone a court is a moot question, with a foregone conclusion.

But the smart money is on Sandilands (Plane Talking), de Spiegel and Le Monde – to produce the real deal, or at very least, close to it, (lawyers permitting). Some say the information may even 'surface' this week. No doubt the aforementioned prestige publications will then rush a team of gifted journalists to Oz, all panting to have an intimate, informative lunch (Spag-Bol only, remember the budget) with our very own, home grown expert, Bea-Cur to seek his very own opinion. Will the piece be entitled; We have no need of boxes, black, Orange or any other colour; not with our methodology, as approved by the Canadian TSB.

Oh, what tangled web of Spaghetti to unscramble; alphabet noodles are much safer, more economical too.

Toot toot..

Last edited by Kharon; 23rd Nov 2014 at 18:57. Reason: I keep thinking the SMH article was a wind up, logic defies any other conclusion.
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Old 23rd Nov 2014, 21:17
  #2417 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,733
Beyond the pale??

Leady & "K" both nail the outrageous spin & pony pooh tale that our loyal, self-serving bureaucrats that oversee aviation administration - with their despicable Mandarin M&M - want us to believe when it came to the PelAir coverup...

Remember this from our super sleuth muppet way back where all this started:
Smith-Roberts, Jennifer
To: ·
Dolan Martin <[email protected]>
Wednesday, 12 September 2012 6:09 PM
Craig Carmody; McCormick, John
Lovell Jaimie; Michael Choueifate; Virginia Kim; Jeff Singleton
RE: Sen Xenophon Motion re Pei-Air [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Categories: Important
Thanks, Craig.
At the simplest level, the answers to the Senator's questions are straightforward - and a fair amount of the information
is publicly available. We are prepared to answer them in whatever forum they arise (with the exception of anonymous
rumour sites and some tendentious bloggers).
Let us know if you need any background briefing on the Senat or's issues.
Martin Dolan
Chief Commissioner
Australian Transport Safety Bureau
P: +61 2 6274 61441 E: [email protected] I M:
Muppet Bea-Cur was pretty confident that he could keep a lid on it wasn't he?? Bet he never expected to get this very public condemnation in the Senate some 555 days later...(my bold )
Senator XENOPHON: by leave—I move:

That the Senate take note of the document.

At the outset, I would like to acknowledge the incredible work of the committee secretariat on this report. It is a very complex, technical area, and I believe this report should be held up as the gold standard of what a dedicated Senate committee can achieve. At the risk of embarrassing her, I would like to acknowledge my legislation and policy adviser, Hannah Wooller, who did extraordinary work on this, and who probably knows more about air safety investigations and air accident investigations than she ever thought she would want to know when she started work with me.

I fear that I may not be able to say the same about the government response, in comparison to the way that the secretariat has dealt with this.

I note that the government has already established its review into aviation safety, and that the ATSB has already invited the Canadian transport safety board to consider its investigative and reporting processes in relation to the Pel-Air incident and other matters. But I do have serious concerns about the Canadian process. Those concerns are not about the integrity of the Canadian transport safety board, but about the fact that it seems that their terms of reference are so circumscribed. They have yet to interview or obtain information from the Senate committee, from the pilot involved in that incident or from experts who gave evidence to that committee.

What is vitally important about the recommendations from this report is that they do not stand alone. They were made in the context of evidence that showed a serious and systemic lack of rigour from both the ATSB and CASA. Any responses from the government that claim that existing policy or procedure addresses the committee's concerns cannot be accepted, because this report clearly shows that existing policies and procedures do not work. Instead, the flight crew of VH-NGA were made scapegoats for regulatory failures.

I note, in particular, the comments from ATSB Chief Commissioner Mr Dolan, who admitted during questioning that he was 'not proud' of the ATSB's report into the Pel-Air incident. The committee even went so far as to state that Mr Dolan's standing as a witness before the committee had been eroded by his evidence relating to the ATSB's failure to retrieve the flight data and cockpit voice recorders. Mr Dolan justified this position by quoting a version of the statement that sets out the ATSB's international responsibilities in this regard—ICAO Annex 13—that was not in force at the time of the accident or investigation. I pay tribute to Senator David Fawcett's cross-examination of Mr Dolan in this regard, which elicited very valuable information. A reading of the current Annex 13 may leave some room for discretion as to whether the recorders are to be retrieved. A reading of the annex that was in force at the time of the incident and subsequent investigation—and therefore should have been the one used by the ATSB to reach a decision—does not provide for this discretion. The committee report states:

The committee does not accept this argument—
that is, the argument of Mr Dolan.

At the time the decision against retrieving the FDR was made the imperative existed for the ATSB to do so. To ignore this imperative by arguing that the benefit did not justify the cost appears disingenuous. To imply that the revised wording in the current version of Annex 13 was the basis for the ATSB's decision in 2009/2010, before this version was in force, is even more disingenuous.

This report also called into question the relationship between the ATSB and CASA, and whether the intention of the memorandum of understanding between them is being met. The purpose of CASA is to ensure Australia's aviation safety regulations are being met and are serving their purpose. Therefore, if an incident investigated by the ATSB reveals a gap in that oversight, it is the ATSB's duty to report it.

I would like to share an email from an ATSB officer to Mr Dolan and Mr Ian Sangston of the ATSB regarding the investigation, which reads in part:

We were discussing the potential to reflect the intent of our new MoU that describes the 2 agencies as 'independent but complementary'. We discussed the hole CASA might have got itself into by its interventions since the ditching, and how you might have identified an optimum path that will maximise the safety outcome without either agency planting egg on the other agency's face. Right now, I suspect that CASA is entrenching itself into a position that would be hard to support. If we were to contemplate an exit strategy, or an 'out', then CASA would need to recognise that it is 'in' something in the first place.

It is important to note that the final ATSB report makes no reference to the officer's concerns. What this email clearly indicates is that there was a belief inside the ATSB that CASA had 'got itself into a hole', and that the ATSB's priority was avoiding conflict between the two agencies, rather than holding CASA to account.

On its own part, CASA concluded a special audit of Pel-Air after the ditching and found multiple significant safety breaches on the part of Pel-Air. A further audit CASA undertook on its oversight of Pel-Air found that CASA had failed in its role as regulator. CASA did not share this information with the ATSB, despite the MoU between them requiring it. As such, the ATSB
did not have access to information that showed the broader context in which the incident occurred. What is even more concerning is that, after receiving the information as part of the committee process, the ATSB defended its investigation and stated that access to that information would not have changed their conclusion. Again, this is the report of which the chief commissioner of the ATSB is 'not proud'.

In aviation safety, it is vital to look at the contributing factors to consider the bigger picture in which an incident occurred. For example, were the staff adequately trained? Did the company employing them provide appropriate and continuous access to training and other support? Was there a safety culture in the organisation, or did the operator encourage their staff to take risks and 'just get the job done', so to speak? All of these questions, and more, should be asked so investigators can understand the environment in which an incident occurred. In that way, the environment itself can be addressed to prevent that same, or similar, incidents happening again.

The government should take a similar approach to considering this report. Sadly, it has not. In what environment is the ATSB and CASA operating? What are their cultures like? Are they likely to enforce the systems and procedures already in place, or do changes need to happen? This report gives us the answer to many of those questions. The next question is whether the government will take them into account and act appropriately. I seek leave to complete my remarks later.

Leave granted.
With the Leady & "K" conclusions plus the added suspicions of international collusion with the Canucks - sitting on the bureau peer review report - I think we now know what length the Mandarin & his minions are prepared to go to in covering up a seemingly insignificant domestic duck-up in the PelAir debacle...

It will be interesting to see (if & when required) whether Bea-Cur - with M&M providing top-cover - has the mettle to put in place a similar fix once the bucket of money runs dry and the MH370 mystery comes to its penultimate conclusion.. (well at least from the bureaucrats & directly interested governments point of view...).

Another matter of interest - come December 1st - will be just how complicit the Canucks will be with - the nothing to see here - PelAir duck-up...

Senator FAWCETT: Mr Dolan, have you received the interim report from NTSB?

Mr Dolan : From the Transportation Safety Board of Canada?

Senator FAWCETT: Sorry, yes.

Mr Dolan : We received a draft report from the Transportation Safety Board back in August.

Senator FAWCETT: Did you make comment on that?

Mr Dolan : We provided some comments on the factual content of the report and our understanding of it and areas where we thought there could be clarification.

Senator FAWCETT: And the time frame for that to come back?

Mr Dolan : We had a teleconference with our Canadian counterparts last Friday and they assured us that their report would be published by 1 December.

There is also the small matter of Nick's MoP...

...which also for some inexplicable reason seems to have been delayed...

TICK..TOCK M&M & Bea-Cur..


{Had a dream: Imagine a scene where the MH370 attempted cover-up goes to an international court of inquiry where the men/women at the back of the room include the likes of Sir Tim all demanding answers & god forbid the truth from Bea-Cur & Co...

Change the faces & the scenes i.e. fill in the gaps and the mind boggles..}
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Old 23rd Nov 2014, 23:56
  #2418 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 895
I do hope that today's crossing of the Rubicon by Senator J. Lambie will upset the zeitgeist sufficiently to again pour some daylight upon the sorry bureaucrats who infect both the ATSB and CAsA. Please, viewers, if you have any avenues open to Senator X's office, make clear that quid pro quo for Lambie's protection* should include her being open to being schooled on the various and many foul failings of the current perch-sitters.

*odd, init, that an independent will, as a practical matter, need both a mentor and a protector? Realpolitik in action, comrades.**

** was there ever a more hopeful, yet ultimately jaded, cynical or banal word? Still, I couldn't resist as a nod to the recently late G.W.

P.S. Don't put too much hope into Confirmed Sceptic's post on Plane Talking: he tells me that his FAA/TC/TSBC confidants are a level or two below the Mandarin level, and as such are widely informed yet happily have cover, given what may come next.
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 03:03
  #2419 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
Bare knuckles it is then..

Sunny – IF we were to start calling a spade a shovel, there are two decades where one consistent element has held the reigns of aviation; only one, when looked at chronologically, the repercussions of that influence have resulted in stories like the one today published by Sandilands on – Plane Talking. Nearly all of today's expense, risk and problems which face industry can be defined in one word – Airports– and the 'development' of...

The manipulations required to make a secondary 'airport' into an attractive business proposition can all be sheeted home to one, or perhaps two of the Murky Machiavellian clan. Buy the paddock, clean out the riff-raff, bring in the land fill; and, off you go.

I'm no lawyer; but I can research, read and join the dots as well as most; a resignation is required, it's not that of Truss, but of those who hold his hand. Perhaps, the Xenophon MoP, combined with the Heffernan/ Sterle MoP, will shed some much needed light into a very murky pit of cynical embuggerance.

Someone is holding up the reform of CASA demanded by industry; a call for the Mrdak resignation will go some way towards deflecting the international criticism mounting against Australia; with the huge potential for MH 370 to rebound and further taint an already blemished international reputation.

Over to you Tony...

Tick tock (get in first, to beat the international journalists who are slightly ahead of the game at the moment and getting closer by the minute – remember Pel-Air; and that Sir, was but a warm up bout)....

Start - HERE : Insider bulletin today urges Malaysia’s most uncritical supporter, PM Tony Abbott, to call for, or read, the latest intelligence he can summons on the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Toot toot.

Last edited by Kharon; 24th Nov 2014 at 03:22.
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 03:45
  #2420 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,733
Ferryman offering discount fares for River Styx tour.

Them is fighting words Kharon...

Speaking of MH370 & the Oz government you might be interested in this...
By Planetalking: "Is Australia being taken for a fool?"

Tony Abbott’s big MH370 problem: is the Malaysian government lying?
Ben Sandilands | Nov 24, 2014 1:12PM
MH370: Is Australia being taken for a fool? | Plane Talking

The question that has been increasingly heard as the months pass is: who or what is the Malaysia government protecting?

Urgent Memo to Prime Minister Tony Abbott: commission the best Australian intelligence on the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 on March 8 this year, then distance your government from any unquestioning hand-wringing about this disaster or unwavering acceptance of the official narrative about the loss of that Boeing 777-200ER and the 239 people on board from the government of Malaysia.

Many things point to something rotten going on in relation to MH370. The most striking comes from commentary made on the flight’s disappearance by Tim Clark, the president and CEO of Emirates, in June, July and October (variously reported on Crikey blog Plane Talking).

To cut to the chase, Clark is accusing the Malaysian authorities of lying.

He has repeatedly drawn attention to the suppression of the nature of some items carried as cargo under the floor of the jet, which abruptly “went dark” to air traffic control radar screens when it was over the Gulf of Thailand, on track to Beijing.

Clark heads the world’s largest user of 777s, as well as A380s. He says there are indications that unauthorised access was made to an unprotected electronics and electrical systems bay reached through the floor of the forward cabin immediately behind and below the cockpit.

Boeing is refusing to comment on prior warnings from pilots that it needed to secure this hatch against such intrusions.

But on May 1, even before Clark began dissenting from the Malaysian government’s often-changed narrative, its then-acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein, revealed that the Malaysian cabinet knew, on the morning that the flight “vanished”, that it had deviated westwards across the Malaysian peninsula from its last transponder-identified position heading towards Vietnam, taking a course that was headed toward the Andaman Sea.

The government of Malaysia misled the growing international search effort, causing authorities to intensify the search into the South China Sea, and as far north as Kazakhstan, despite having knowledge of the abrupt change of course of MH370 as tracked on its own military radar.

It even resisted American intelligence disclosures that the jet had eventually flown south and crashed into the southern Indian Ocean west of Perth, which appear to have been revealed unilaterally by the White House out of a frustration it shared with China, and soon after, with India, over the quality and integrity of the Malaysian response to the disappearance of MH370.

To give context to Clark’s stance, there are clear signs that the US and other powers, including China and Indonesia, know that terrorism was not involved in the diversion of the flight, but that a well-planned attempt to steal unidentified cargo went wrong, or a that a similarly intricately planned act of suicide and mass murder went right.

The focus on the south Indian Ocean search for the wreckage of the jet, which ran out of fuel seven hours and 38 or 39 minutes after takeoff, and at about the time the Malaysian cabinet knew the truth about its diversion, has kept attention off the criminal investigation, which the Malaysian authorities have subsequently refused to discuss in any detail.

While confidentiality in such investigations is very important, the question that has been increasingly heard as the months pass is: who or what is the Malaysian government protecting?

That disquiet parallels the astonishing suppression by an Australian court of allegations, made in Australian litigation, of corrupt payments being made to a south-east Asian government.

The Abbott government needs to understand that matters already reported abroad in the supposedly less free Asian media in relation to corrupt payments will, like the criminal probe into the disappearance of MH370, eventually come out — and probably fairly soon.

It would be wise to not be caught falling for the full and misleading Malaysian government narrative about MH370 as currently publicly known.

While the wreckage of the missing jet may be located sooner rather than later, it seems unlikely to reveal more than the intelligence dossiers the PM ought to read, or commission, as the case may be.

Being taken for a fool by Malaysia through an uncritical acceptance of its MH370 narrative could prove very bad political optics.
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