Merged: Senate Inquiry

[dubbleyew eight]

splat.

excuse me. I'd like to ask an IFR question first posed by Richard Collins in his book "Flying IFR". How do you unscramble an egg?

[aroa]

Onya . Ziggychick

All power to you.

A couple of T shirt suggestions

Safe skies for None

CAsA = Corrupt Authority, Safety an Afterthought.

Too far away to be there, as a distant IOS member, in spirit tho

Do post after the "event"

Best wishes

[Lookleft]

No one other than Ziggy has actually said they are going. Lots of the usual bluster (just post the receipt from the tattoo parlour 004) but who is going to post on this thread that they will be in attendance at the RAeS on Thursday?

[004wercras]

Yawn

Hate to tell you this Lookleft but not a lot of IOS around here are really interested in reading your claptrap, nor answering your silly question. There's a good boy, toddle off will you.

[Lookleft]

Sorry, didn't realise that it was an invitation only thread! I'm just laughing at all the regular posters and all your bold statements about you're going to do this and just wait until you get the opportunity then there will be hell to pay. The perfect opportunity and none of you are making a commitment and saying that you will be there. The emperor has indeed been found to have no clothes.

[Jinglie]

Lookie,
What's wrong with a cigar smoking skull? It happens regularly at Fort Fumbles! Yes, I have big balls and am not concerned in the slightest about overstepping the mark. I think the Skull, A380 geriatric, and beaker may have more to worry about! I have a long, proud involvement in aviation safety and know my ****e.
You are definitely not a respected member of the IOS'S!
And what pax in the logo???
So do you think Chambers has a clue? I'll be there. You?

[Lookleft]

As I said Jinglie best of luck with it. I notice that you already have a customer who wants it permanently etched on what I assume is his talking orifice.

[Jinglie]

"Look after yourself"

Why don't you spend your time on real issues rather than picking like a gutless prick on people who actuality give a ****e? No doubt you'll be there backing the expert bag chucker!
004 can do what he wants. Good on him for having the spirit.

[Jinglie]

When a DAS (in this case McComic) has the audacity to label ppurnes and Senate witnesses (Quinn and Aherne) as Ills' of Society for having the right of public speech, something is wrong. Bravo to those guys for sticking their necks out. The IOSS will live on.

[Ziggychick]

Truth be known...

Reasoning. What's yours? Going to action? Plausible arguments?

Here's mine.

For those that read this and belong to the scrum that I refer to, lower your head in shame as you read. And FYI, I can not be discredited, try as they might.

My stomach churns everyday. The absence of Justice, Fairness and Learning is the vigorous stir that gives me the strength to continue contributing to this matter.
Near five years. Five operations, psych admissions, meds, PTSD and the list goes on. Most profound is the loss of time with my children as they were 12,14 and 16 at the time of the ditching. I have been a single mother for 12 years. Worked three jobs, studied to achieve my dream job and I was physically abled, mentally stable and was happy.
I now wake each day, greeted with endless pain. Excruciating if I do too much. From an International Intensive Care Aeromedical Nurse, Medical Educator and RTO Project Manager, to a limited radius of around 30km now. Super, I know.
Swiftly stolen. As time has passed, I have accepted the disability, manage the pain, know I will never have the physical freedom nor forget in my mind Nov 18. Daily triggers. Breath. Re-Focus. The incident itself has been difficult enough to live with. Add the soap opera. Not pleasant to live through this.
I can not watch my television or listen to the radio at the moment as it provokes flashbacks, insomnia and nightmares. So be it. I have to ride this wave the best I can. Which ever way it leads me.
Emergence of the need to walk my talk is validated I believe.

Did the operator fail? Did the regulator fail? Did the Investigators fail? Did my Government fail me? A few boxes ticked there perhaps?
We have been treated unfairly, as too with others that have voiced.

I was given a medallion from the "Survivors Network of Aeromedical Crashes" from the US. Books, a visit from another survivor from Canada and support.
Nada from my Gov. Just drawn out, unnecessary head butting. Insulting to say the least. Especially when the truth is known.

Good enough reason now to ask such questions as the truth is bubbling to the surface.

My will is good. I ask the same of others with the pure intent of Safety to understand my reason.

I owe thanks to many people for their insight and understanding that has been relayed to me.

"I fell apart, but got back up again"..."to battle is the only way we feel" Jared Leto.

Sums up this time/chapter of my life.

[Jinglie]

IOSS

So what do you suggest Lookie? Some whale hugging or perhaps a picture of a puppet of Forest Gump (Truss lookalike)? Life is like a box of chocolates.....!

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

Extract:
Roger Chambers will be presenting a seminar about team factors, the opportunities to harness those factors to improve safety within the an organisation through the Safety Management System, and the hazards that can manifest within and between teams that history shows can lead to incidents and accidents. Roger will also provide an update about safety promotion material that has been developed by CASA in the past 18 months that is now available for industry. CASA Safety Promotion staff will be on hand to provide safety materials to participants.

Interesting all this Human Factors and SMS stuff! The real and only question that needs asking is why was the work Ben Cook did excluded from the Chambers report if it is that important? Follow up why was the chambers report not passed to the Atsb for consideration.

I expect there will be representatives from legal there.

The iOS need to blend in so he has no idea who will ask the questions.

[004wercras]

Ziggychick, post #2101 sums up why we need change!

Thread back on track.

Ziggychick, well said That is exactly the reason why we need an overhaul of our aviation environment. You have related a reality check of what the outcome of an aviation accident leaves behind. One example from a survivor. You and Shane Urquhart together on the road talking to our industry would be a formidable team and provide much better insight and understanding than someone like Wodger dribbling on about pony pooh.

Our industry desperately needs help, it is sick, it is AOG. Let's just hope that change comes before we end up being the country that is sifting through the ashes of 200 or 300 pax after Sunny's giant smoking hole occurs.

[Creampuff]

Ziggy

The only glimmer of hope for any substantive change is the non-major party aligned Senators. If you want to put your energy to most effective use, lobby them.

CASA as an organisation doesn't care. Protesting at their gab-fests will make no difference.

ATSB as an organisation doesn't care. Protesting at their gab-fests will make no difference.

Almost none, if any, of the chest-beaters on pprune will be there with you.

The Laborials as a group don't care. The Laborials as a group are very happy with the job CASA and ATSB do. Nothing that CASA and ATSB have done or not done has made an iota of difference to the opinion polls. That's why nothing substantive has happened in the wake of the Senate Aviation Accident Investigation Inquiry report or the ASRR Panel report.

The only glimmer of hope is that the non-majory party aligned Senators can be convinced to do something. Talk to the PUPs, the Lib Dem, the Family First as well as Nick X and the Greens.

[Up-into-the-air]

Ziggy GO!, GO! GO!

Well put and the iOS is here, we have been head-butted by experts.

BUT:

McComick is gone.

Sen X works on.

Sen. Hef and Sterle are supporting you.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUT:

Miniscule Truss, where are you??

and the Red one is still trying to de-rail the process [look at the "pink bats"]

As for the casa legal section - they just de-rail everything.

[Frank Arouet]

The IOS are, from my dealings with many of them, impecunious. CAsA have made them "straw men/women" in their quest for safe skies for all. This little fact seems to be lost on the fat cats who believe they can intimidate, threaten and bully them further.


They have nothing left to loose! This makes them dangerous.


CAsA will never take anybody to a real court of law. Some of the IOS have dared them to do so. Recent administrative audits have been thwarted by legal intervention and still they refuse to take legal action for obstruction. CAsA only have clout via their own perversion of the regs and the umbrella of "safety" in the bureaucrat friendly AAT.


By their own actions CAsA are inviting public disobedience and what better place to demonstrate this than the RAS shindig at "Tammany Hall".


Somebody should ring the police before it gets out of control.

[Lookleft]

If you cut and paste from a couple of different posts you can come up with some good advice for Ziggy.

You and Shane Urquhart together on the road talking to our industry would be a formidable team and provide much better insight and understanding. The only glimmer of hope for any substantive change is the non-major party aligned Senators. If you want to put your energy to most effective use, lobby them.

CASA as an organisation doesn't care. Protesting at their gab-fests will make no difference.

ATSB as an organisation doesn't care. Protesting at their gab-fests will make no difference.

Almost none, if any, of the chest-beaters on pprune will be there with you.

The Laborials as a group don't care. The Laborials as a group are very happy with the job CASA and ATSB do. Nothing that CASA and ATSB have done or not done has made an iota of difference to the opinion polls. That's why nothing substantive has happened in the wake of the Senate Aviation Accident Investigation Inquiry report or the ASRR Panel report.

The only glimmer of hope is that the non-majory party aligned Senators can be convinced to do something. Talk to the PUPs, the Lib Dem, the Family First as well as Nick X and the Greens.

The rest is like watching monkeys in a zoo.

[Sarcs]

Back on track.

004:

Ziggychick, well said That is exactly the reason why we need an overhaul of our aviation environment. You have related a reality check of what the outcome of an aviation accident leaves behind. One example from a survivor. You and Shane Urquhart together on the road talking to our industry would be a formidable team and provide much better insight and understanding than someone like Wodger dribbling on about pony pooh.

Agree totally 004.., back on track & very glad to see Ziggy once again able to add to the debate with such a succinct post... (unlike some on here...).

It is sometime self-satisfying to attack the man (or wabbit), especially a wabbit such as Wodger who has been the instigator of many embuggerances of individual industry stakeholders & some, like Ziggy, innocent bystanders. However at the end of the day the likes of Wodger really do not signify, as he really was only doing the bidding of his (soon to be former) Sociopath master in helping perpetuate the PelAir cover up.

The bigger picture, which Ziggy & 004 allude to, is much more important and is best summarised (before we started drifting) by "K" at post #2061

IMO - Between CASA and Beaker people like Ben Cook and Mal Christie have been treated abominably by those with very few qualifications and much less integrity. Any accountant can run the books, hell a qualified book keeper could do it. We have no need of these administrative types to be running critical safety investigations or managing essential organisations. Look at the buggers muddle Pel Air turned out to be if you think they should.

Would a Houston have recovered the Pel Air black box?

Would a Ben Cook have smudged the ledger to make the page add up?

Would either have manipulated facts and ignored evidence?

Would they tell the world about the life vest issues?

Yet it smugly stands there, the Beaker; reappointed and with enough neck to slither in front of a camera at every opportunity and flap his jaw. Perhaps there is a case for military or AMSA intervention if the minuscule can't see where the ATSB is heading. Why persist with Beaker?, why does he stay where no one, bar the co conspirators want him? Why do we keep him, let some one else mind the tea money while all the real, qualified talent and front line investigators have gone to the Ukraine. I'd bet a beer that when they come home, Beaker will be puffing out his chest, capering about the place picking up the kudos crumbs, like a puppy at a BBQ. It's disgusting, truly, really, absolutely disgraceful.

And from a PT article yesterday (MH17 Admissions of safety failure by Malaysia Airlines?)Ben discretely slid this into the mix..

"...They also go to the heart of the ‘accountability’ factor in modern airline managements, which are incidentally, held to be personally liable for safety outcomes under Australian law according to this country’s Civil Aviation Safety Authority when it isn’t suppressing embarrassing internal documents in such cases at the Pel-Air crash near Norfolk Island in 2009, or letting joy ride pilots like the late Barry Hempel fly unsuspecting customers to their doom because it decided to turn a blind eye to its own responsibilities..."

So by all means Ziggy (& whoever) attend Wodger's lecture, as long as people adhere to..

"...Whilst there, I'd like to bring attention to facts and justice. Which I believe I have the right to do. So I will.
Presence and connecting with others to speak of the truth regarding the shortcomings of the distorted system/s. Ask logical questions.

Going for the right reasons. To listen, then question..."

...there can be no harm done...

IMO Ziggy your presence at the event will speak much louder than words but if you are after intel for the Q&A that follows I am more than happy to oblige, you could start with reviewing my post...Third MoP sponsor: The case of the shrinking Attachment B??

However until such time as the miniscule decides to blink IOS impatience will continue to grow...

I'll finish with a quote from Kharon:

What CASA can't seem to accept is that major change is demanded and industry expects those changes; but the concept is alien to them. They have become very used to, and good at ignoring the likes of coroners, ATSB, FAA and ICAO; but this time the step from the sublime to ridiculous trod on a lot of toes. Since Pel Air and the Forsyth report, the way in which government perceive CASA, particularly in the Senate has changed. Make no mistake – the winds of change are indeed heading towards the ivory tower, like it or not.

In short, perhaps CASA will no longer be able to thumb their nose at industry, Senate and the recommendations of 'other' organisations; not with impunity anyway. CASA have, by a fair minded, impartial jury of peers been weighed, measured and definitely been found wanting. Speculating, but I reckon the Rev. Forsyth wisely allowed to overseas guru's enough latitude to form their own opinions; without his input. Their considered, expert opinion fully justified the Senate findings on the Pel Air ditching. CASA~have arrogantly been the architects of their own demise and must now attempt to be reconciled with industry as the WLR demands.

MTF..

[Lookleft]

Thread drift what thread drift?

Your request here Sarcs:

So by all means Ziggy (& whoever) attend Wodger's lecture, as long as people adhere to..

"...Whilst there, I'd like to bring attention to facts and justice. Which I believe I have the right to do. So I will.
Presence and connecting with others to speak of the truth regarding the shortcomings of the distorted system/s. Ask logical questions.

Going for the right reasons. To listen, then question..."

...there can be no harm done...

Seems at odds with this:

They have nothing left to loose! This makes them dangerous.

CAsA will never take anybody to a real court of law. Some of the IOS have dared them to do so. Recent administrative audits have been thwarted by legal intervention and still they refuse to take legal action for obstruction. CAsA only have clout via their own perversion of the regs and the umbrella of "safety" in the bureaucrat friendly AAT.

By their own actions CAsA are inviting public disobedience and what better place to demonstrate this than the RAS shindig at "Tammany Hall".

Somebody should ring the police before it gets out of control.

And do you really think the quiet corridors of the RAeS are interested in admitting someone wearing a T-shirt with overtones of terrorism? Although to give some credit to Jinglie he at least has said he is going which is more than other people have so far failed to do.

[Kharon]

First principals Clarisse.

When Lefty sets up a derailment, the first thing to do is ignore it; the second and most important is to work out why. This leaves us with two less pages of heroic tattoo's (no pictures - please), wild artwork (yes - but is it art?) and keeps us on topic (Click). The topic, before 'trouble at t' mill' kicked off, was the notion of the RAeS embracing safety culture and having the author of that Senate favourite. "the" Chambers report paraded as the doyen of all safety issues. We have previously discussed the Pel Air 8 day recovery wonder, the CAIR report and the other serious anomalies which the Pel Air inquiry threw up.

It is of course up to the RAeS who they ask to speak; how the society chooses to sully it's reputation is entirely their business. I simply reserve my right to decline an invitation and as insignificant as my absence may be it is preferable. Rather than embarrassing the society with raucous, noisy crowd scenes; much as they are great fun. No, if you feel you must protest make it a silent one, don't dignify this charade by attending. No doubt, in due course a transcript will turn up and we can have a little look at that; just for fun.

Ziggy – good on you; but as brother Creampuff says the odds are slim, but hope springs eternal. If we can keep the Senators respect and interest and if Truss delivers on the election promises, there is a chance things may change for the better. Hang in there – smile whenever you can; shame to waste such a lovely thing.

As an aside. There are three traditional methods for hunting rabbits, the first is aback a horse using a the stirrup and swatting the little buggers with the iron, a polo swing - this whilst potentially lethal to rider is bloody good sport. Another is the shotgun and lamp method, which is wet, cold, dreary, expensive, time consuming and, in the wrong company potentially lethal. The oldest method is the poachers line trap, set and forget; soon or late your dinner will arrive; cheap effective and no patience required; for the well set rabbit trap is the most patient of all.

But - Jorrocks had the right of it -

I am a sportsman all over, and to the back-bone - 'Untin is all that's worth living for – all time is lost wot is not spent in 'unting – it is like the hair we breathe – if we have it not we die – it's the sport of kings, the image of war without its guilt, and only five-and-twenty per cent of its danger.

Toot toot..