Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin

[another superlame]

You got it in one Quill Shaft. And to think that the career progression for the individual has come along in leaps and bounds at the expense of other loyal staff members.
But this is for another time I guess.

[B.U.F.F.]

Interested party

Having read most of this thread and the sunnies saga, the one constant in this is management ( term used loosely).

The doom and gloom merchants don't seem to think you the worker has a memory.
1. fuel is actually cheaper now than awhile ago. If they hedged their price in US dollars then their mistake would be hurting them rather than the price.
2. I read the same article in the newspaper - exec pay rises that's fair but only if all receive it. I am sure all would appreciate a 58% bonus. I would work a bit harder if rewarded like that.

Overall i feel they (management) are giving themselves an out when it all goes down - blame the Unions. When it is their or their predecessors bad management plan and re - equipment debacle which is causing the most grief.

Other operators with marginal profits on long routes are using big twins like A330 and 777, makes sense to me only 2 engines to fuel and pax capacity pretty good even with business class.

Keep up the fight as we all benefit indirectly.

[sky rocket]

Game on Ian Oldmeadow. We are more united than last EBA. Let the ballot results show you.

[QFBUSBOY]

First Casualty of PIA- Big MAC WA

Ding dong the Dick is Dead.

Wonder why they cut his head off before the PIA started?

Maybe they didnt want a repeat of the SMH incident.

Farewell Club Buggery.

[Jet-A-One]

Good to hear the end of the biggest dick in the west!

Get rid of the two scabs in the far north and you may really get some
line guys on side once you get a decent EBA on the table GH...

Keep the buggery out of it and there's a chance we can reach an agreement. Start mobilising the scabs like Murray did last time and and the gloves will be off!

Choose your own destiny Gav.

[33 Disengage]

GH are you listening?

no progress has been made on the engineers' push for a 28.6 per cent pay rise

This is the little irishman's briefing to the media today (Herald Sun 7/4/11).

GH please tell those above you that if senior management want a fight, just keep going the way they are. The only brand damage that is happening at the moment is by joyce. His efforts today and on ACA on monday reveal his hand. What's his agenda? I will ponder that one on my J* flight to SFO!!!

[opalops]

From SMH

Qantas isn't really tightening its seat belt

April 7, 2011 - 9:29AM

There's been an amazing amount of bluff and bluster from Qantas CEO Alan Joyce over the past week. If you only read the headlines, you'd almost think Qantas was tightening its seat belt. It's not.
Putting 21 tired old 737s and a couple of near-ancient 767s up for sale makes for a good headline, but the real surprise is buried in the fine print: despite the well-publicised impact of natural and nuclear disasters, the oil price, fragile domestic tourism, currency damage to inbound travel and the annoying John Travolta flight safety video, Qantas is expanding its domestic and international capacity in the second half of this year by 8 and 7 per cent respectively.
That is not belt tightening. Alan Joyce might be fiddling with the buckle, but the belt is sitting loosely over a pair of comfort-fit pants with the hidden waist expander as the airline goes for a second helping of roast turkey. And if Boeing can ever get its 787 to stay airborne for longer than the Spruce Goose, Qantas is looking at dessert with a shovel.
Advertisement: Story continues below
In an industry more rational than aviation, you'd expect the current litany of woes to mean no capacity expansion, if not a contraction.
What's more, the 737 and 767s of pensionable age won't really be missed. They're only in the air thanks to being written down to nearly zero, meaning the return-on-capital-employed figure made up for the more expensive maintenance, higher fuel costs and the brand damage caused by reduced reliability, tired cabins and worse seats.
(Not untypical was the cushion on my Thursday evening Sydney-Brisbane run being pretty much gone, leaving an uncomfortable metal bar under the thighs – and that was business class. I would not have wanted to be paying for it. Ditto “business class” in the old 737s that are basically economy seats with the middle chair blocked off. These planes have become incompatible with the Qantas makeover.)
So what's really happening with the Flying Roo when the walk isn't matching the talk? Those given to conspiracy theories might have an eye on the growing industrial relations tensions, but I suspect a bigger bet is being made on prosperity being just around the corner. That's always quite a bet in the risky aviation business.
There are some interesting factors caught up in that gamble. The current oil price jump is not like the last demand-driven tightening. Those with a better understanding of these things reckon there's about a $15 “risk premium” in today's price – it's the speculation about potential supply disruption, rather than a fundamental change.
The thing about a risk premium price spike is that it happens quicker and isn't accompanied by the natural hedge Australia tends to get from a stronger dollar. Yes, the Aussie is around post-float highs, but as a major energy and commodities exporter, our currency's recent rise has not kept pace with the oil price. If it had, our dollar would be buying something more like $US1.10.
The flip side is that the risk premium can disappear as quickly as it arose. A sudden resolution of the Libyan war could send the oil speculators running for the doors, wiping most of that premium out. Want to bet an airline's profitability on Libyan battlefields? I guess that's why it's called a risk premium.
In the meantime, the speed of the oil price hike is hitting inelastic demand – meaning higher petrol prices are immediately felt in consumers' hip pockets. Leisure travel is one of the more discretionary items in the household budget and quickly cut when the consumer perceives their domestic budget has to be tightened.
Well, their domestic tourism budget is being tightened anyway. The latest Roy Morgan Research holiday-tracking survey recorded the lowest January quarter score (57 per cent) since 2006 for Australians intending to holiday in Australia for their next trip in the next 12 months, but the highest score (10 per cent) in five years for Australians intending to travel overseas for their next trip in the next 12 months.
If the oil price was demand rather than risk premium driven, it would be symptomatic of a healthier, stronger economy. Before the GFC smashed the party, oil prices were a great deal higher, but everyone was having such a good time dancing, they barely noticed. Right now, people are noticing.
In this climate then, it's very strange for the two Australian airline groups to be increasing capacity. Maybe running an airline is like being an average farmer: if you weren't given to some form of optimism, you couldn't undertake the daily triumph of hope over experience. Yet there are reasons for some optimism - or excuses, depending on your disposition.
Qantas' international problems and profitability or lack thereof are very well publicised by the management. What you don't hear so much about is how very nicely profitable QantasLink is – the domestic regional business is doing very well indeed, so let's not draw attention to it. Include Qantas's ambition to grab more of the resources charter business and regional Australia is serving the Roo well. As the resources boom picks up pace, it should serve it even better.
The big promise of the capex boom being spread around, as preached by the Reserve Bank and Treasury, plus the billions being pushed into our economy by the terms of trade still means continued growth in employment and wages. Eventually, more jobs for more people with more money means more spending. The consumer might be suffering some sticker shock about electricity and petrol today, but that tends to wear off in time and the discretionary spending returns. Remember that the RBA doesn't see a consumer strike, but a healthy abating of “the run-up in household leverage”. Healthier households become stronger ones – the unknown is how long it will be before they feel healthy enough to handle more indulgence.
And business is waiting for its share of the capex and resources billions. The smarter operators are already working on getting theirs, both in services growth and services to the services growth. And winning and servicing business still requires plenty of travel.
It's much harder to find a sunny side of the international inbound street given the acknowledged current problems. Volume hope is still a few years away when China is richer again and we experience the next new wave of tourism, if we're smart enough to win it and if our carriers are competitive. In the meantime, there are plenty of us going shopping overseas and needing to come home again. Qantas's challenge is to be the carrier of choice on the routes we want.
Right now though, there are bums on seats, but the bums aren't yielding much profit. It's a brave CEO then who keeps adding capacity, providing more seats – or all is not quite so gloomy in the Qantas crystal ball.
It'd be nice to think that the real test of how serious Qantas is about its belt tightening will be revealed in the annual report when we see what's happened to the pay packets of the CEO and CFO – but somehow such things seem immune to turbulence.

[blubak]

28.6%

Pls do us all the favour of not lying-Pls do us all the favour of not treating us as fools & Pls do us all the favour of being consistent in you & your management's communication.
If you wish to cast yourself as a trustworthy person then coming out with such absolute rot as you have done with your claim that the engineers are looking for 28.6% is an absolute disgrace.A letter to your employees will do nothing if you then go and make outlandish claims in the media as to what the wage claims of the union are,we are all not stupid and sucked in by this sort of propoganda-being truthful and not hiding behind smoke screens would be a good start towards reacing an agreement.

[Ngineer]

So, in the absence of GD what as changed? Nothing!!

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

So, in the absence of GD what as changed?

Sounds like they have one less "Life Coach". Any bets on who will be the next WA Manager?

[Righty Tighty]

Yeah Heard one of the larger DMM's from CNS is heading WA way,
lots of bad Lame's over there that will need coaching
Big Dick putting on a KEG?

[Black Hands]

The busiest port in the network... A consumer survey that ranks Perth as Australia's worst airport... Unsatisfactory facilities and ammenities available for use by engineering staff... One engineering building still condemned due to contamination caused by a storm over 12 months ago... Apparently the locker room is a "porta-hut" in the middle of bay 12. At least the male staff have one... Minimal ground equipment... Minimal spares... A disengaged workforce still reeling from 2 major industrial disputes in the last 5 years...

I can see people queuing up for that gig...

[aveng]

Interesting that Qf management would get rid of 767 and 737 management licence this close to PIA. Boy this lot really are Dumb. Good for us though.

[Galley Raider]

The DICK can always get a job with Newport

[howyoulikethat]

Intelligence has us believe,that a WMD is heading west...how you like that
you Qf LAMES....Club buggery is not dead,here's a thought,why not use all those Ops Managers as sacrificial lambs to the slaughter,after all they have done nothing since the last PIA.......on more money than us for
what,tellin us to how too suck eggs...please!
I say bring them forward...will the real Manager stand up....
Yehhh just as I thought...dirka dirka

[ampclamp]

Not sure if this has been posted here before but it is a good read.Bolding is mine.

What if the Qantas unions asked for nothing?


Ben Sandilands from Crikey...

Although protected (read legal) industrial action is not going to happen at Qantas this side of Anzac Day, what would happen if the pilots, the engineers, the refuellers and the baggage handlers all withdrew their current pay claims?
Nothing. Based on nothing more than the statements made by Qantas group CEO Alan Joyce about how unprofitable its international business is, and how crippling labor costs are in Australia, it wouldn’t matter if the respective unions lined up outside Joyce’s office tomorrow morning promising a pay freeze for the next three years or five years.
Their jobs are still toast, because no matter what productivity deals they offer, no matter how much they are prepared to curtail pay and conditions, the company refuses to negotiate guarantees over keeping flying and engineering jobs in this country.
In a real sense, the noise the pilots and engineers and other Qantas employees are making about job security, are giving a failed management a cover behind which to hide.
While the timing is coincidental, and simultaneous protected industrial action by pilots, engineers, refuellers and baggage handlers may seem bad news for Qantas and travellers, the labor unrest is no more serious than the apparent failure of the current management and board to run an expanding, profitable and useful company.
For at least the past three months the tired old clichés about Qantas being undermined by ‘dumping’ on international routes have looked absurd beside the likes of Singapore Airlines and Emirates charging more for their premium products than Qantas, and holding their market share steady or rising while Qantas, clinging to aged jets and poor network decisions, keeps sinking toward single figures in market share.
(Qantas had only 17.7 percent of the international market in February, and even with Jetstar international reaching 7.6 percent share, it only had 25.6 per cent of the market as a group compared to a 35 per cent share in 2003 before Jetstar was invented, only to help drive Qantas customers elsewhere.)
The lesson from international traveller defections to foreign carriers may be that premium payers don’t care what a fare costs, and are abandoning Qantas for what they see as superior quality and convenience.
The current Qantas group strategy seems to be one of continued contraction, in international travel, and a line in the sand in domestic which is starting to look as much under threat from Tiger as Virgin Blue. It can’t go on.
In this morning’s installment of the industrial-action-about–to- tsunami-Qantas genre, in The Australian, its spokesperson says:
“The unions are threatening industrial action while the company deals with rapidly increasing fuel prices, an underperforming international business and the operational impact of natural disasters in New Zealand, Japan and in Australia.”
But its competitors are dealing with the same misfortunes, yet benefiting from the rebound from the GFC far more successfully than Qantas. Apart from the A380 groundings, Qantas has the same challenges as its peer airlines, who are all posting record profits and paying their shareholders dividends, while Qantas isn’t.
It is this group under-performance that leaves Qantas CEO Alan Joyce, and Qantas chairman Leigh Clifford and the board, no-where to run.
Their only answer is to pursue a policy of shedding Australian jobs, and Australian taxation and superannuation levy obligations, by sham arrangements in which its pilots, cabin attendants and engineers, some of them still resident in Australia, are paid according to Singaporean or New Zealand work place agreements.
The implication of what Joyce says is that Qantas cannot afford to be Australian to be competitive. It intends to deal with foreign competition to Europe for example, by basing Australian registered jets in Singapore, where they will fly between Singapore and Europe and Singapore and Australia, thus imitating the advantages it says Singapore Airlines enjoys.
This de-Australianisation of Qantas may reflect a wider view in business that Australia cannot maintain internationally competitive enterprises in its own country. It’s a debate quite a number of business leaders have joined one way or the other in recent decades.
But it is a painful position when it involves a strategy to gut the piloting and engineer excellence of Qantas for the cheapest source of labor available abroad. It even involves under cutting Australian jobs within Jetstar with Asia sourced Jetstar employees being paid according to Asia terms and conditions while flying in Australia.
These strategies, which also included Jetstar flying cadet pilots to NZ to open NZD bank accounts for pay which would avoid Australian superannuation and taxation obligations while working and flying exclusively in Australia, are at the core of union unrest and calls for job security clauses, whether pilots or engineers.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of demanding job security, there is a much bigger issue for the government of taxation security. Will it allow a precedent where anyone can be employed under a foreign contract issued by a foreign entity and evade Australian taxation and super levies while performing duties in Australia?
For Qantas, this off-shore migration of assets and labor is unlikely to lift earnings enough to sustain the profits and dividends shareholders might have expected if Qantas and Jetstar continue to drive customers away because of poor management decisions on fleet and network.
Qantas needs to attract customers more than it needs to destroy its traditions of skills and excellence in flying and engineering. If it fails it will not be in a position of strength when, as most analysts expect, the Asia-Pacific airline industry gets serious about trans border consolidations.

[Sunfish]

Qantas is dead as a career choice for Australians. Lets open the skies.

[unionist1974]

Interesting times we live in , gung ho boys it seems you are all up for it . Or are you all , I hear a senior official is going of on leave , great leadership , have you all got your leave forms in?

[Disengagement]

Interesting to see that at the last EBA Qantas was crying poor and the price of oil was US$147 and the Aussie dollar at $0.87. Now the price of oil is US$1.05 with Qantas hedged at US0.97 and the Aussie dollar at $1.05 . Also the Aussie $ to the Euro and Pound is at all time highs . So if Qantas is doing so bad with all this going for it GD should be looking at his finance people for a please explain and share holders should also be asking for an explanation.
It has finally came to me why they are spending so much money on new lounges though out its network and nothing on maintenance facilities. Its because the passengers are spending more time on the ground waiting for their aircraft and the Engineers more time on the aircraft fixing the fleet.
All Ebas there are reasons why Qantas cannot reward its staff ( Management excluded ) Desert Storm, Bird Flu, Sars , Iraq War , Vocalic Ash ,Tsunami, Queensland Floods, Japan Earthquake, EFC.
Now sure that these have had some effect on the the Airline but has Qantas Management just cried Wolf too many times . With comments like there are no cash bonus for Management when we all know that their bonuses are in Share bonuses so don't show in Annual Reports.
A pebble which falls into the water only makes a ripple , but when combine all the pebbles together and the fall into the water they make a wave . So all LAMES stick together and flight for the right to have the same playing field as Management when it comes to wage reviews and rewards.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I hear a senior official is going of on leave , great leadership

Ahh shock horror but as usual you have your facts wrong. The Senior Official, a good looking bloke, about my height is not taking leave. He is doing business in the States and will be back well in time for the any action that may take place.

He can work just as well from a Laptop in the States as he can from his Melbourne office. He will be meeting senior Officials from various American Aviation unions and then attending a One World alliance meeting.

Before you try and attack the senior official again, you may wish to know that this is the first time he has been sent overseas by the ALAEA in 5 years of office. He might even have a beer or two but thanks for thinking of him.