Virgin Blue A330 Jobs
Join Date: Dec 2002
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(not just on this forum) to help put a bit of light on on the subject..........
The reality is, as you correctly pointed out, things changed in your life and you needed to move. So to will that be the case for all of us at some stage. The group as a whole must not attempt this latest flavour/idea of trapping people on a type. Bond them, freeze them, boil them but allow the 73 guy to fly the trippler and the Ejet guy to fly the 330 vice versa. Infact they should enable/support career path and growth of individuals. People flying the same type for 10+ years grow stagnant and tired. Massimo might have some whiz bang figures that show savings but I've got some true line stories of guys that just needed to move on to reinvigorate themselves. This creates movement which improves morale and also gets people into the books. A dollar figure can't be placed on those two. Happy people=Flexible Engaged Workforce. Just ask crewing at Jetstar about it. I lost count of people I know there that wouldn't help the company if their life depended on it.
There are some young guys out there that could well become well rounded longhaul captains one day and this wont happen if they just stay on type because they can't afford the paycut to move. A pilot is a 30-40 year investment for the company not some line in an excel bargraph.
Thats my bit.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 30th Jan 2011 at 21:21.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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fmcinop,
i agree VA,VB,PB should all be the same.
You went straight to capt(i'm guessing) at Voz because of you seniority from VB but it does not work in reverse for us.....so NO not really the same but in reverse as you suggest.
Its not my place to judge who are "Duds" and who are not.
I agree totally that NO ONE should get a better position in the company ahead of another who may have been there longer(i have never said that) and the new recruits going to the Ejet sounds like a good idea to me.
Agreed totally that there are issues on both sides....this was actually my point i was trying to make. So please do not think that the CRFO'S got it easy or the better deal because that is just not true.
I dont know the answers to all the issues(thats why im not in management)
i agree VA,VB,PB should all be the same.
You went straight to capt(i'm guessing) at Voz because of you seniority from VB but it does not work in reverse for us.....so NO not really the same but in reverse as you suggest.
Its not my place to judge who are "Duds" and who are not.
I agree totally that NO ONE should get a better position in the company ahead of another who may have been there longer(i have never said that) and the new recruits going to the Ejet sounds like a good idea to me.
Agreed totally that there are issues on both sides....this was actually my point i was trying to make. So please do not think that the CRFO'S got it easy or the better deal because that is just not true.
I dont know the answers to all the issues(thats why im not in management)
Join Date: May 2005
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The fix is easy.
We need to rid ourselves of the us and them mentality. I know this is ripe in VB againsg those in VA and PB, but can assure you it is just as strong in VA. We were certainly told in no uncertain terms that 7000 hours on 737 command was not worth the paper it was written on. The 777 is apparently only one step back from the space shuttle??. Yes I did get a direct entry command, but this was ot just based on seniority, it was also based on experience and that is where some, not all crz f/o's fall short.
Seniority and a mass shift in attitude would certainly go a long way. PD has done more to ensure smooth transition between companies than just about anyone else. There is a steady stream on crz f/o's going to VB this year and that's great.
As far as commands based on start date, that is how it has been for a long time but remember it's also based on other things like experience, hours, sim records, line check reports. Even if crz f/o's did keep seniority and I think they should most would not meet the requirements for command anyway, although there are a number of highly experienced crz f/o's who would.
I have never thought about it but did I keep my seniority coming over to VA? While yes I do have a 777 command, seniority does come into play for other things like ad hoc leave etc.
We need to rid ourselves of the us and them mentality. I know this is ripe in VB againsg those in VA and PB, but can assure you it is just as strong in VA. We were certainly told in no uncertain terms that 7000 hours on 737 command was not worth the paper it was written on. The 777 is apparently only one step back from the space shuttle??. Yes I did get a direct entry command, but this was ot just based on seniority, it was also based on experience and that is where some, not all crz f/o's fall short.
Seniority and a mass shift in attitude would certainly go a long way. PD has done more to ensure smooth transition between companies than just about anyone else. There is a steady stream on crz f/o's going to VB this year and that's great.
As far as commands based on start date, that is how it has been for a long time but remember it's also based on other things like experience, hours, sim records, line check reports. Even if crz f/o's did keep seniority and I think they should most would not meet the requirements for command anyway, although there are a number of highly experienced crz f/o's who would.
I have never thought about it but did I keep my seniority coming over to VA? While yes I do have a 777 command, seniority does come into play for other things like ad hoc leave etc.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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fmcinop,
Thanks for the great reply. It is great to get some positive feedback.
Yes PD has done a remarkable job on transfers and without him and more guys like him the outcome would not be so bright for all concerned.
Thanks for the great reply. It is great to get some positive feedback.
Yes PD has done a remarkable job on transfers and without him and more guys like him the outcome would not be so bright for all concerned.
PD is one of life's true gentleman! If the company (flight operations) had more people like him we would be in a much better position. Pity he didn't get the top job.
I for one have never had the them and us attitude, we have "lost" some great guys to VA, but in return are seeing some great blokes coming over as well.
For many of us when joining VB, it was only EVER going to be a small low cost airline, now we have the possible opportunity to move within the operation should we want a career change to suit our lifestyle.
It is a given, that more changes need to take place, balancing $$$, transparency with "awarded" positions and an easier system to transfer to the different operations : Regional, Domestic, Medium Haul and Long Haul.
In doing so may take a lot of the workload from PD and AB
I for one have never had the them and us attitude, we have "lost" some great guys to VA, but in return are seeing some great blokes coming over as well.
For many of us when joining VB, it was only EVER going to be a small low cost airline, now we have the possible opportunity to move within the operation should we want a career change to suit our lifestyle.
It is a given, that more changes need to take place, balancing $$$, transparency with "awarded" positions and an easier system to transfer to the different operations : Regional, Domestic, Medium Haul and Long Haul.
In doing so may take a lot of the workload from PD and AB
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Time to command
Sorry to revive a long dead thread, but....
Reading over past posts I was struck buy how short the time to command seems to be - 2 years on the Ejet and 3+ ON THE 737?
Surely the company isn't expanding that fast? Where are all the senior people going?
Any more news on fleet pay? I notice the EBA expires later this year?
Reading over past posts I was struck buy how short the time to command seems to be - 2 years on the Ejet and 3+ ON THE 737?
Surely the company isn't expanding that fast? Where are all the senior people going?
Any more news on fleet pay? I notice the EBA expires later this year?
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I don't think people should get the impression that 2-3 years to a command is the norm at Virgin. It''s the situation right now but it might not be the case in another 12 months time.
6 E170's going and only 3 E190's coming, new 737's to replace older aircraft. Crew slowly moving to the 4 A330 due over the next couple of years. More A330's expected but who knows how many or when (or even which pilot group will be flying them if they go international - probably PB not VB).
A fair bit of movement with command upgrades this year but it will probably be much slower (read normal) from 2012 and onwards.
Still, it's a great place to work, just don't join with unrealistic ideas of time to command.
6 E170's going and only 3 E190's coming, new 737's to replace older aircraft. Crew slowly moving to the 4 A330 due over the next couple of years. More A330's expected but who knows how many or when (or even which pilot group will be flying them if they go international - probably PB not VB).
A fair bit of movement with command upgrades this year but it will probably be much slower (read normal) from 2012 and onwards.
Still, it's a great place to work, just don't join with unrealistic ideas of time to command.
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True Warped wings things will most likely slow again next year, but if the A330 numbers increase as per the rumours and the 190's stay then commands could still run around the 3 - 5 year mark.
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FYI
onthehillside and hongkongfooey,
Announced today FO positions filled by internals FYI.
I have no idea if these were Ejet guys or not.
Either way looks like the overall morale is good. A real uniform arriving soon and opportunities filled by internals is a good start to the year.
EBA is next. That could be a different story!
Announced today FO positions filled by internals FYI.
I have no idea if these were Ejet guys or not.
Either way looks like the overall morale is good. A real uniform arriving soon and opportunities filled by internals is a good start to the year.
EBA is next. That could be a different story!
7 transfers to the A330
Most were EJet First Officers in Sydney
At least 1 737 Brisbane First Officer
1 fellow was on the last page of the Flight Crew List 35 from the bottom.
Good luck to him!
Most were EJet First Officers in Sydney
At least 1 737 Brisbane First Officer
1 fellow was on the last page of the Flight Crew List 35 from the bottom.
Good luck to him!
I dont think it is a great idea and I am sure you wont either if they are given a command on the 330 before you, because the 'requirements' change.
Yes I am glad that the positions were filled internally, but the whole process has not been communicated well and is far from transparent.
Yes I am glad that the positions were filled internally, but the whole process has not been communicated well and is far from transparent.
Servo I am not sure what you are getting at but the positions were advertised and awarded and published.
These are FO positions that are rightly filled by current VB pilots.
These are FO positions that are rightly filled by current VB pilots.
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I think what Servo's getting at is the prospect of an ex-Ejet F/O getting his/her first command on a widebody, as opposed to someone more senior, or who came from a more "senior" A/C type (but then again, I may be wrong).
On the second note, let's not forget that guys were joining VB & getting their first jet command on a 737 after having flown nothing bigger than a Chieftain, so why should an A330 be any different? Just a thought...
On the second note, let's not forget that guys were joining VB & getting their first jet command on a 737 after having flown nothing bigger than a Chieftain, so why should an A330 be any different? Just a thought...
Not quite sure that's the case Bunglerat?
Quite often a pilots first Jet, and ceratainly turbo-prop, would come with only piston engined experience. but Command would normally be from progression from the RHS to the LHS, after considerable Jet and or experience on type.
As far as promotion down the track is concerned, whether it be offered purely on a date of joining basis, or specific to aircraft type, it needs to be spelt out without ambiguity. I think that's what Servo was getting at. From what I've seen of the way DJ approach some HR issues, they tend to leap first, and then wonder why people get pissed off later on! The AFAP should be all over this?
Quite often a pilots first Jet, and ceratainly turbo-prop, would come with only piston engined experience. but Command would normally be from progression from the RHS to the LHS, after considerable Jet and or experience on type.
As far as promotion down the track is concerned, whether it be offered purely on a date of joining basis, or specific to aircraft type, it needs to be spelt out without ambiguity. I think that's what Servo was getting at. From what I've seen of the way DJ approach some HR issues, they tend to leap first, and then wonder why people get pissed off later on! The AFAP should be all over this?
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 10th Feb 2011 at 04:48.
I'm still confused!
These First Officer positions were awarded by datal seniority.
Unless I have missed something why would they now be awarded a Command on the A330 ahead of those more senior?
ppRune living up to its name!
These First Officer positions were awarded by datal seniority.
Unless I have missed something why would they now be awarded a Command on the A330 ahead of those more senior?
ppRune living up to its name!