Qantas Indecisive and Complaining
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Qantas Indecisive and Complaining
The recent VB tie-up with Etihad Airways gives travellers much more choice flying to and around Europe and critically, they can do so with less time trawling busier, congested hubs like Singapore or Bangkok.
Qantas’ master plan to have Jetstar operate flights to Europe will almost certainly have to be looked at again.
V Australia may well be considering asking for access to Europe through Abu Dhabi, gut given Etihad’s extensive network, it’s unlikely they’ll need to ask anytime soon. For Jetstar, the critical advantage of being a long haul low cost airline has been hit with not just Qantas’ indecision of deliveries of their 787 fleet, but also because the flight times that will be cut on V Australia flights to the Middle East and Europe will favour them over Jetstar.
Qantas has been painfully slow to react to industry changes and this isn’t the first time they’ve been found wanting.
Already, the flag carrier has been hostile to the expansion of Emirates and Etihad into its Sydney hub and has lost plenty of business as a result. At the lower end, Air New Zealand has been eating away at leisure traffic leaving Qantas to look like a stranger in its own backyard.
V Australia’s move could see the airline opt to order or lease more 777-300ERs to complement its expansion – even if it doesn’t, the fact that they are starting services to Abu Dhabi within months should be warning enough that Qantas needs to get its act together – and quickly.
Qantas’ master plan to have Jetstar operate flights to Europe will almost certainly have to be looked at again.
V Australia may well be considering asking for access to Europe through Abu Dhabi, gut given Etihad’s extensive network, it’s unlikely they’ll need to ask anytime soon. For Jetstar, the critical advantage of being a long haul low cost airline has been hit with not just Qantas’ indecision of deliveries of their 787 fleet, but also because the flight times that will be cut on V Australia flights to the Middle East and Europe will favour them over Jetstar.
Qantas has been painfully slow to react to industry changes and this isn’t the first time they’ve been found wanting.
Already, the flag carrier has been hostile to the expansion of Emirates and Etihad into its Sydney hub and has lost plenty of business as a result. At the lower end, Air New Zealand has been eating away at leisure traffic leaving Qantas to look like a stranger in its own backyard.
V Australia’s move could see the airline opt to order or lease more 777-300ERs to complement its expansion – even if it doesn’t, the fact that they are starting services to Abu Dhabi within months should be warning enough that Qantas needs to get its act together – and quickly.
Last edited by air bender; 31st Aug 2010 at 06:01.
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I agree that QF needs to do something. For too long, QF has rested on its laurels, relying on goodwill, safety, etc etc. I fear that the goodwill has been basically trashed in recent years and the company needs fresh, innovative leadership that is not all about the growth of JQ at all costs.
If someone can explain to me why the average punter would be prepared to go to Europe on JQ, paying merrily as they go, as opposed to flying a full service Asian carrier that offers the lot. Quite a few of the second tier Asian carriers (not the SQ's and CX's) will be offering very competitive fares to compete. I somehow dont think JQ are going be several hundred bucks cheaper than its competitors on the Southern European run. If they are, then will it be worth it?? Will it make any money???
Yes, Qantas does need to think differently. Sure, they are a business trying to make a buck in a very competitive environment but if DJ are able to grab the bull by the horns and be innovative with their furture direction, then why cant QF??
What may have worked in the past wont work now and into the future. But going by its track record, Im not going to hold my breath!!
If someone can explain to me why the average punter would be prepared to go to Europe on JQ, paying merrily as they go, as opposed to flying a full service Asian carrier that offers the lot. Quite a few of the second tier Asian carriers (not the SQ's and CX's) will be offering very competitive fares to compete. I somehow dont think JQ are going be several hundred bucks cheaper than its competitors on the Southern European run. If they are, then will it be worth it?? Will it make any money???
Yes, Qantas does need to think differently. Sure, they are a business trying to make a buck in a very competitive environment but if DJ are able to grab the bull by the horns and be innovative with their furture direction, then why cant QF??
What may have worked in the past wont work now and into the future. But going by its track record, Im not going to hold my breath!!
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Here is a start Get rid of the jetstar brand altogether, paint the planes in qantas colours incorporate the crews into qantas, lease some 777's sack BB and all his brainless men....
Newsensation i think youve hit the nail on the head. I think QF are on the slide. They have decided to fight in the gutter for the $50 fares rather than go for yeild. And i for one cant see Australians travelling QF/Jetstar to Rome/Athens or numerous other European ports on an A330 with small seats plus having to pay extra for meals and entertainment when you can go on a VAUS 777 and a nice new Ethaid aircraft all inclusive. Only time will tell but i know i wouldnt back the QF horse unfortunately.
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Lack of Skillset
Borghetti was the last of the redtail men
The last one at QF who knew how to run an international airline.
Now he is gone and Virgin is on the march.
Leigh Clifford is a miner and Joyce has run a low cost carrier.
May be QF will morph into a low cost iron ore producer
Its certainly not much chop as an airline
The last one at QF who knew how to run an international airline.
Now he is gone and Virgin is on the march.
Leigh Clifford is a miner and Joyce has run a low cost carrier.
May be QF will morph into a low cost iron ore producer
Its certainly not much chop as an airline
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Dragon Man
Exactly the take AirNZ has on it. They openly do not compete on price, with free IFE, meals, lounges, better seat pitch, lie flat economy, blah blah.
Jetstar so far has only exceeded in buying its own market share. Some of it at the expense of QF I might suggest. Running aircraft around and wearing them out for sweet all profit.
Hub in SIN or hub in AUH? Thats seems to be the question for punters. Which will offer the most for the ticket price?
You will be hard pressed to run cheaper than the ME carriers. Jetstar, I believe will need to offer more than cheap tickets to be successful in to europe.
Exactly the take AirNZ has on it. They openly do not compete on price, with free IFE, meals, lounges, better seat pitch, lie flat economy, blah blah.
Jetstar so far has only exceeded in buying its own market share. Some of it at the expense of QF I might suggest. Running aircraft around and wearing them out for sweet all profit.
Hub in SIN or hub in AUH? Thats seems to be the question for punters. Which will offer the most for the ticket price?
You will be hard pressed to run cheaper than the ME carriers. Jetstar, I believe will need to offer more than cheap tickets to be successful in to europe.
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Air Bender you are incorrect regarding flight times being shorter on V Aus via Abu Dhabi. The great circle distance via Singapore is less then via Abu Dhabi.
Rome:
SYD-AUH-ROM 10181nm
SYD-SIN-ROM 10144nm
London:
SYD-AUH-LHR 10924nm
SYD-SIN-LHR 10624nm
Southern europe flt times are pretty equal but to Northern Europem flights via Singapore would be 30-40 mins shorter.
Rome:
SYD-AUH-ROM 10181nm
SYD-SIN-ROM 10144nm
London:
SYD-AUH-LHR 10924nm
SYD-SIN-LHR 10624nm
Southern europe flt times are pretty equal but to Northern Europem flights via Singapore would be 30-40 mins shorter.
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Huh?
I was talking about SYD/SIN/AUH and onto Europe..two stops cf one
This is about Jetstar vs Virgin to Europe
Distance is not always consistent with flight times...geostrophic winds ring a bell?
Fly to LHR to get to Europe.How arcane.
Fly to AUH and Europe is your oyster
Cuts out Deathrow(aka Heathrow)
QF recently stated they were looking at other European Airports now that Heathrow has decided not ot expand any further.
The ME will be to be to northbound travel from Oz what SIN was 20 years ago
Qantas is fiddling around while others are being forward thinking
This is about Jetstar vs Virgin to Europe
Distance is not always consistent with flight times...geostrophic winds ring a bell?
Fly to LHR to get to Europe.How arcane.
Fly to AUH and Europe is your oyster
Cuts out Deathrow(aka Heathrow)
QF recently stated they were looking at other European Airports now that Heathrow has decided not ot expand any further.
The ME will be to be to northbound travel from Oz what SIN was 20 years ago
Qantas is fiddling around while others are being forward thinking
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Southern europe flt times are pretty equal but to Northern Europem flights via Singapore would be 30-40 mins shorter.
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Originally Posted by Air Bender
flight times that will be cut on V Australia flights to the Middle East and Europe will favour them over Jetstar.
Guys - there is a lot of comment that punters will not fly JQ when they can fly 'full service' and/or competitive Asian carriers - I am afraid that's just not fact.
The fact is, JQ International performs well - enjoy high seat factor and deliver quality yield against the cost-base it operates. I recently travelled on JQ International twice (330) ops to two destinations where there are competitors that offer a better 'full service' product and the JQ flights were full, 100%. One of those destinations included V's 777 and PAC Blue 737 as operators into that destination.
I am afraid for the demographic that JQ caterers too, there will always be patronage and cost is king for the majority component of that 'demographic'.
Just look at the punters who fly JQ MEL/DRW/SIN...for me, I consider that a nightmare journey - 13 odd hours, stop-over in a shocker of an airport (DRW) and 4 + hours a piece on potentially a 180 seat A320 with 28 inches of pitch and no recline, however the route performs because cost is king - there are plenty of 'choices' to SIN that can get you there in half the time...
At the end of the day, JQ's product is not for everyone, however it suits some, and really, the product is not that bad. Given you need to pay for service you want (which is a good thing), the end product, when compared to other airlines in the world, is pretty good. I'd certainly rate JQ over a number of carriers I've flown over the years - by FAR! There are some shockers out there!
The same applies to Tiger in AUS - hated by many, yet deliver seat factors of +80%...so, they obviously are meeting the needs of some people...
JQ I believe will do well to Southern Europe, in particular with the 78. The same aircraft that will deliver cost benefits to JQ should translate into attractive fares, coupled with a new aeroplane that will deliver on innovation and technology - I believe they'll do fine...
People contemplating 24 hours on an aircraft take into account comfort and service.
Those travelling to Europe are not the same as those travelling on cheap holidays to Phuket, Bali or even Honolulu.
As others have mentioned.
Second tier full service carrier or Jetstar ???
Come on, it's a no brainer.
I don't think their are going to be enough "wood ducks" out there wanting to go to Europe.
Those travelling to Europe are not the same as those travelling on cheap holidays to Phuket, Bali or even Honolulu.
As others have mentioned.
Second tier full service carrier or Jetstar ???
Come on, it's a no brainer.
I don't think their are going to be enough "wood ducks" out there wanting to go to Europe.
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SU - lets look at the current 330 as an example - you mention "comfort and service". So, the 330 has 32 inches of pitch and leather seats in a 2 x 4 x 2 config. Against other carriers that operate today, please tell me how that is not competitive? That is a standard config with most airlines, world-wide and is certainly better then a 3 x 4 x 3 config aka no middle seat on the sides...
You cannot argue that the current JQ INT 330 does not offer a level of "comfort' that isn't comparable to other airlines operating internationally?
With regards to "service", can you be more specific. Are you talking 'inclusive offering' i.e. meals? IFE? well, not all airlines have seat-back - JQ enables the customer to 'rent' a device (soon to be iPad which surpasses many existing seat-back offerings around the world) at a low $10...I know what I would prefer. And not all carriers offer 'AVOD'...
JQ offers 'mainscreen' IFE which is not at a cost to anyone - comparable to other airlines...Look at Lufthansa. Not all of their long-haul fleet offer seat-back, and they would be considered a 'full service carrier'...
With regards to meals and drinks; well, what happens if you experience poor quality catering i.e. sub-standard meal that you dislike...does that make it okay because it was 'free'...What if you fare was $20 different. Was that meal worth the $20?
Being a full service carrier, does not automatically translate into a wonderful experience or journey...
I'm only trying to be objective here.
You cannot argue that the current JQ INT 330 does not offer a level of "comfort' that isn't comparable to other airlines operating internationally?
With regards to "service", can you be more specific. Are you talking 'inclusive offering' i.e. meals? IFE? well, not all airlines have seat-back - JQ enables the customer to 'rent' a device (soon to be iPad which surpasses many existing seat-back offerings around the world) at a low $10...I know what I would prefer. And not all carriers offer 'AVOD'...
JQ offers 'mainscreen' IFE which is not at a cost to anyone - comparable to other airlines...Look at Lufthansa. Not all of their long-haul fleet offer seat-back, and they would be considered a 'full service carrier'...
With regards to meals and drinks; well, what happens if you experience poor quality catering i.e. sub-standard meal that you dislike...does that make it okay because it was 'free'...What if you fare was $20 different. Was that meal worth the $20?
Being a full service carrier, does not automatically translate into a wonderful experience or journey...
I'm only trying to be objective here.
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SU - I am not sure Qantas are 'destroying themselves'. Premium traffic is back to pre-GFC levels, yields across INT and DOM are on the incline, forward bookings are strong and Qantas is seeing very healthy SF on both SH and LH businesses.
In addition, Qantas is improving its product and end-to-end experience across it's business that will deliver key advantages/benefits over competitors and certainly position Qantas as a high-tier carrier.
The Jetstar strategy appears to be delivering well for the group as evidenced by the continued growth and performance of this business for the market Jetstar was created to serve.
In addition, Qantas is improving its product and end-to-end experience across it's business that will deliver key advantages/benefits over competitors and certainly position Qantas as a high-tier carrier.
The Jetstar strategy appears to be delivering well for the group as evidenced by the continued growth and performance of this business for the market Jetstar was created to serve.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0198; 31st Aug 2010 at 13:47.
Son needed to get to Majorca for his professional yachting. Flew Singapore/Swissair via Singapore to Zurich then Swissair to Palma. Raved about the flight because Singapore to Zurich was Singapore Airlines A380 codeshare. Around $1200 one way from memory.
All European travel for last Four months via Eurail pass. One short flight to Dublin. He is now working in Edinburgh. Home run this month to Hong Kong via ??? and then QF, I think, from Hong Kong direct to Melbourne. Around $1100 one way.
Brother goes to Europe via either Bangkok (Royal Thai), Singapore, Etihad or Emirates and changes aircraft in Dubhai, etc. direct to Venice, Rome, Amsterdam, Berlin, Barcelona, etc. Travel into/out of UK is never via Heathrow and via Eurostar if London. At all costs we avoid changing aircraft and connecting flights at Heathrow.
At all costs we now avoid Qantas and that 20+ hour flight to Heathrow hell, and any return flight that is not direct to Melbourne. Qantas lost us years ago and they will have to do a lot better to ever get us back....
All European travel for last Four months via Eurail pass. One short flight to Dublin. He is now working in Edinburgh. Home run this month to Hong Kong via ??? and then QF, I think, from Hong Kong direct to Melbourne. Around $1100 one way.
Brother goes to Europe via either Bangkok (Royal Thai), Singapore, Etihad or Emirates and changes aircraft in Dubhai, etc. direct to Venice, Rome, Amsterdam, Berlin, Barcelona, etc. Travel into/out of UK is never via Heathrow and via Eurostar if London. At all costs we avoid changing aircraft and connecting flights at Heathrow.
At all costs we now avoid Qantas and that 20+ hour flight to Heathrow hell, and any return flight that is not direct to Melbourne. Qantas lost us years ago and they will have to do a lot better to ever get us back....
I concur with Sunfish 100%, Flew with Singapore Airlines in June to Athens, was there in a little over 19 hours from departure Sydney!!!! Fanatstic airline, fantastic service and the connections to different cities in Europe are second to none. I paided $600 more than Emirates but worth every cent. Don't even look at QANTAS these days as price is normally the most expensive and takes much longer to get to where I want to go.
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At all costs we now avoid Qantas and that 20+ hour flight to Heathrow hell, and any return flight that is not direct to Melbourne. Qantas lost us years ago and they will have to do a lot better to ever get us back....
Yeah, great idea Sunfish. Why not avoid Qantas at all costs. Cause its all about the fluffy little trinkets in the cabin. Why don't you do yourself a favour and assemble a technical perspective. When my family board a QF ship, I am never concerned as to their safety because I know the guys up the front ARE quality!! Cannot say the same ref a couple of your above mentioned carriers....but then again, I am taking a technical perspective.
Regards
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Some Light Reading
Read "The Men Who Killed Qantas"
Qantas safety record is not that perfect either.
Qantas has had a lot of plane(sic) good luck.
Particularly during Scrotum Faces tenure.
Not taking on Emirates in their back yard is just pure folly
Qantas safety record is not that perfect either.
Qantas has had a lot of plane(sic) good luck.
Particularly during Scrotum Faces tenure.
Not taking on Emirates in their back yard is just pure folly