Pilots of Australia - time to unite - Meeting Aug 23

[KRUSTY 34]

I've requested a "please explain" from the moderator. Just in case the other 44,000 viewers were wondering also!

This is just for you, Krusty:

That would be because the thread is about outsourcing jobs overseas. I've politely asked twice for everyone to remain on topic, but it appears some are either unable or unwilling to consider such a simple request - hence the post deletions. Purely to keep the thread on track, of course

There are innumerable threads on these forums that start off with good intent, then just degenerate into the same old T&C debate.

This thread is too important to allow the same to happen, and if it means some posts being deleted in order to do so, then so be it.

Regards from TID.

Any posts drifting off topic will be removed. It's really quite simple, isn't it?

TID Edit.

[struggling]

FYI, listen to how the 'Horse' tells the Jetstar Asia story at:

KGBTV Video Interviews | Leaders in Business Interview Series | Business Spectator

[KRUSTY 34]

It's interesting how Buchanan remarked about the top salaries being paid in Australia and highlighted the "Good" deal being offered in Singapore. Both examples were for the highest salary on the flightdeck and with all possible allowances included.

He also remarked that these salaries are significantly higher than most "Blue Collar" wages in OZ! Show's you just what he thinks of his pilots, and an obvious appeal to the masses! First shot in the war against the "Silvertail" greedy pilots! Absent from his remarks of course was the proposed salaries for the low timers and Cadets!

Don't even go down the path of equitable salaries guys. Buchanan's remarks only highlight what I have already said. They will twist any campaign for equitable T&C's to suit their own ends, and deflect any attention from what will be the only thing that will ressurect our profession.

Keep non ATPL holders out of the flightdeck of Aussie RPT arcraft above 5700kg!

[airtags]

If we're not careful this whole thing will replicate the messy mixed messages of the recent election advertising - which lacked focus and did not lock up on the 'perception' of the public.

Our important considerations in running this debate must be:

1. What does it mean to the average punter?
2 What does it mean for "Australian Standards"?
3. How can our pitch create a 'risk' to JQ's image?

The piece to camera grab would simply be.
This is a bad move by Jetstar ........

• it jeapodises air safety by slashing safety standards.
• it means the next generation of pilots, cabin crew, and engineers will have to move to Asia and work under third world conditions inc less money and lesser worker's rights.
• it is the tip of the iceberg that will open the way for Jetstar and others to send more and more jobs offshore robbing Australians of job opportunities and shrinking the Australian economy.

The closer grab would be.....................

Would you get into a taxi where the driver does not have a licence, proper training or experience? - Jetstar wants you to do just that with air travel.

[rowdy trousers]

So we are blue collar workers, but he cant understand why the pilots are organising industrial representation - you would think that someone who has become CEO (of any organistaion) would have more intelligence than that.

Clearly the biggest threat to BB is the prospect of not being able to walk all over the pilots, and treat them and their work place agreement with contempt.

His body language and hand gesticulations suggested to me that he his just hanging on - a sure sign of someone who has difficulty dealing with the truth. (notice he didn't actually answer the direct question about the SIN MEL service)

I think that the more JQ pilots join unions (particularly AIPA) the more BB will sweat - he is obviously a canidate for the "peter principle" - promoted (well) above his level of competence.

His pathological propensity for lying must be of concern to the board.

[hueyshuffle]

Good points but where to from here?

The previous few posts (and pages of posts) raise excellent points about the message that needs to get through to Joe and Jane Bloggs.

People have also commented that Pilots are not very good at communicating some of these ideas in a way that will have a positive result for themselves.

So professional PR people are required (I haven't said anything new so far, just paraphrasing).

I'm going out on a limb here - Have the AIPA and ALPA etc taken this on board and are there people working on this? So far, the media has reported what they've wanted to with respect to the position of Jetstar pilots and pilots in general but its been pretty diluted. On the other hand, as has been mentioned, the spin doctors at Jetstar and misc have probably been working overtime...

AIPA, ALPA, What is being done to get the message across? Some of the points that have been made on this forum are excellent and are widely supported. What is being done to package these points in a media friendly and public friendly manner to garner support from outside the industry?

I'm sure a lot of people will be happy to financially contribute to this cause (send me an address and I'll send you a cheque) so the message can get across and the right people can be hired to represent these issues in the media (ie: professional PR folks).

With respect to NZ as a ''haven'' for airlines/jetstar wanting to pay crap wages. Has anything been done to address this issue? Toward the beginning of the thread, someone remarked that there's Jetstar pilots in CH flying the same routes as Oz based pilots and getting paid a lot less. How does the company defend this and surely this should be an issue to raise (alongside singapore and vietnam). If only ALPA would/could do something similar in NZ.

[noip]

Rowdy,

I understand your reaction, and I too found the "blue collar" reference offensive - however ...... take a step back and look at this from the standpoint of Sun Tsu, "the 10 principles of war" etc. It was a deliberate insult to inflame you. Make no mistake about that.

This is nothing more than warfare cloaked in more civilised garb..........


N

PS ... I love the "KGB TV" reference ......

[prairiegirl]

noip is right

This is nothing more than warfare cloaked in more civilised garb..........

all ya'll (that's plural for ya'll) are falling right into their smarmy hands..... so discouraging.

he didn't say you were blue collar workers - he used the words 'blue collar workers' in a way that would incite you and divide you.

mission accomplished. darn it.

i know it's difficult, but keep the passion out of it - you can't fight forthright with passionate smart remarks - it won't work. stick to the facts, they will get you farther down the road.

[Taildragger67]

Appearance is everything

Wear a tie.

Why?

Brucey doesn't and it makes him look unprofessional on TV.

Branson & O'Leary he ain't.

Notice the bloke running the ASX-200 company (ie. AJ) usually does these days.

[Metro man]

Would you get into a taxi where the driver does not have a licence, proper training or experience?

If you use taxis in most major Australian cities that's exactly what you are doing.

You're probably being driven by an Indian student who arrived a couple of months ago and has borrowed his mates taxi driver authorisation and ABN.

That's if you're lucky, at least the Indians can speak English, not many of the other drivers in Sydney can.

[phantom menace]

Let's re-align the IRS's we are in danger of drifting off crs.......let's not turn this thread into mines bigger than yours, or whose driving the taxi's in SYD. The professional status of a higher trained and experienced airline pilot is been eroded by JQ and others,but at their peril. An over supply of pilots has made the LCC's take the advantage, and effectively take the p**s on T&C's , and guess what the unions have sat back and watched it happen..
The only shinning light comes from airlines like EK,EY,QR who will seize the opportunity to hoover up all those highly experienced PROFESSIONAL airline pilots and pay them the going rate for the job.

[delamere]

Bruce Buchanan on Pilot Offshoring

From Russia - The KGB use their TV channel to interrogate Buchanan with some questions.

[noip]

Interesting. I had only seen the transcript before.

Despite this sounding entirely reasonable to an audience, "misleading" would be my kindest view of it. Which brings up a really important point for anyone thinking of taking the Singapore offer up:

Singapore Tax

Be very, very careful on this. Just because the Jetstar CEO says you will be paying Singapore tax does not mean it is so. An Australian citizen could easily find they would be paying Australian Tax.

Makes the un-attractive offer even less so, doesn't it?

And I don't think the pay will be made up for the additional burden, unlike for another.


N

[rowdy trousers]

Prairie & Noip,

I am neither insulted nor incited by the blue collar remark - It is no secret that BB thinks of pilots as such.

My point was that the very clear implication of his remark (blue collar) is that he views pilots and what they do with contempt, and therefore wouldn't it be logical to him that pilots seek effective industrial representation to try and protect their profession, like most blue collar workers do?

I can assure you, it is far from mission accomplished, every dog must have their day.

[Al E. Vator]

Its also plain wrong.

I fly passengers within Asia and I get paid roughly 4 times what a Jetstar Captain is getting.

Yet somehow my airline made nearly 1 BILLION AUSTRALIAN DOLLARS in the last 6months alone!!

As has been said, Buchanan has only his career progression and personal salary in mind. It benefits him to reduce your salary.

If what he says about failed court-cases is correct then AIPA alone aren't smart enough to take him/QF on - it needs to be a new and united pilot body.

[ratpoison]

I get paid roughly 4 times what a Jetstar Captain is getting.

So roughly a J* Capt gets about 150k a year. So your on 600k flying in Asia. Can you let us all know which company this is that's paying nearly 3/4 million a year for a Capt??

EK,EY,QR who will seize the opportunity to hoover up all those highly experienced PROFESSIONAL airline pilots and pay them the going rate for the job.

I would probably go and ask them if they all get the "going rate".

[Fruet Mich]

Unbelievable! That guy Buchanan is the biggest weasel I've ever seen. Interesting that he commented on how many times AIPA has taken court action, the guy has his head so far up his own ass he can't figure out there must be a problem with his management style if that's is the case! I say we organize a face to face debate and have it out with him. Off course he'll refuse, then we can use it against him. The world has fought wars with the propaganda machine, I think the industry needs to spend money on a good PR company.

[DeltaT]

Re the BB video above
What do other airlines do/pay that operate similarly?

Surely there are other airlines that have secondary hubs and base pilots and planes in cheaper countries compared to the origin company?
Or is this whole Asia/Aus/NZ thing unique?

[jibba_jabba]

BB said captains are on 200000 SGD

200,000.00 SGD = 164,456.54 AUD Singapore Dollars Australia Dollars 1 SGD = 0.822283 AUD 1 AUD = 1.21613 SGD

it sounds like a fair dinkum explination but in saying so, its always the honey that attracts the fly to its doom. Seems like there was more to that interview posibly???

[Mstr Caution]

Emergency landing: fire on board Jetstar flight to Gold Coast

Mr Buchanan commended the pilots' quick actions in putting the fire out. He said the chief pilot had 14 years' experience flying with Qantas.
"I'd just really like to commend the pilots ... they've reacted swiftly and in a very professional manner,'' Mr Buchanan said.

BB praises the efforts & experience of a QF pilot only when it suits him!