Pilots of Australia - time to unite - Meeting Aug 23

[No Idea Either]

If I'm off and in SY, I'm there (VB). Perhaps for those who cant make it, a consent form of some sort be drafted so they can sign and a petition of absentee names be produced for further support.

[GADRIVR]

"This will affect ALL Australian Pilots at some time during their career - so we need your support"

With the greatest of respect Woody, how is this going to affect a GADRIVR and his/her terms and conditions out there in GA land?

I'd like to say that I'd be attending however the porpose of this meeting seems firmly aimed at resolving the present predicament that the QF group aircrew find themselves in at the moment, and as such, will not affect me one way or the other (nothing changes in other words).

To ask GA types to be there as this MAY affect your future seems a tad naive as it stands at the moment.

Put out the phrase "we also will be applying immense pressure to the GA employers sector with a view to improving T&Cs and giving those aircrew a viable career path" may give me personally a reason to attend.

Kind Regards,
GA driver

[Alloyboobtube]

I hate to say it but I cant see this as winnable.
The o/seas guys who will bid for Australian jobs will be Australians with Aussie passports, cant really stop that.

The new job contracts are legit and if signed by whoever will be binding. There is enough desperation in this industry to fill any jet position, look at the JQ A330 Singapore.
We are unfortunately in the age of if you dont like it leave , and there is lots more not to like coming.
JQ are one step ahead , they know maybe 50 or so F/Os will leave, cadets will fill the positions on lower salary, its a win win for the company.
I hope you guys can achieve something I really do, but it sure looks bleak.

[Private Patjarr]

How will this affect GA drivers?

Simple. It will have a flow on effect down throughout GA. If the airlines are less desirable a place to work, GA pays will be scaled back too.

Everyone needs to be there.

Together we need to act now to preserve all of our livelihoods.

Whomever you are, if you want to preserve the career path of the Australian professional aviator - Get to this meeting any way you can.

[FGD135]

Ahem.

Any improvement to pilot salaries and conditions will come at the expense of other pilot's jobs.

[breakfastburrito]

FGD135, I sorry but when the combined tech crew costs of a ticket between SYD & MEL/ADL/BNE/CBR is 1/10th the passenger handling charges alone, I call bull****.



The burritomister will be at the meeting.

[Keg]

We should organise a 'PPRUNE corner' at the meeting. Time to 'out' everybody!

[breakfastburrito]

Originally Posted by alloyboobtune

We are unfortunately in the age of if you dont like it leave , and there is lots more not to like coming.
JQ are one step ahead , they know maybe 50 or so F/Os will leave, cadets will fill the positions on lower salary, its a win win for the company.

That is why I will fight with every fibre in my body to expose the indentured servitude that is the modern cadetship system.

Sure, some will be caught in the first & second rounds of these modern slavery schemes. But thanks to the Internet, as things pan out as I predict, the numbers who will willingly sell themselves into bondage will diminish rapidly. All it will take is the cadets themselves to start campaigning against these scheme once the "shafted" penny drops - just as they have done in the UK CTC slavery thread.
Unlike 20 years ago, google allows information to flow.

[Mr. Hat]

how is this going to affect a GADRIVR

Let me tell you QF J* and 89ers standing side by side has implications for the entire industry. Your conditions are directly connected to the conditions in Jet land. Suggest you have a look at what happens in GA in the states.

My only concern is that the meeting will only be attended by ppruners. Alot of people don't read it. Would be good if the AIPAAFAPVIPATWU reps could email or call their members.

[shnee]

As a JQ FO, I would love to be there. To be standing beside any aviator. No matter which company, flying whatever aircraft and being represented any union.

As I am unable to attend in person, you still have my full support.

[drugs detected]

Words just can't say how upset everyone is at Jetstar. With morale down so low I don't know if there will be anyway of returning this company to the great times when Mr Joyce was in charge.
Check out our OTP each week, just embarrising! And our CEO thinks it is good.
Can't wait to see this weeks!

GA guys it does affect you if you want a career in the airlines. Do you want to start on 50k/year out of Singapore? Or maybe a liitle more out of NZ? And that's after paying $35k for an endorsement. Rememeber your Command and base will be on merit!

Bruce asked us in a past engagement survey whether we would recommend people to positions within Jetstar. I and nearly every other pilot in Jetstar right now would say NO NO NO, this place has fallen apart.

I truly believe that many QF pilots will turn up as JetConnect is having the same effect on their morale. What is happening at VB and what will happen at Tiger, REX and any other airline?

I'll be at the meeting thanks to Bruce's management skills!

Regards,
A once dedicated Jetstar Pilot.

[notaplanegeek]

I guess everyone who has thoughts on this would like to attend. An idea;

A list of emails from people who oppose the JQ?

Or a list of comments about JQ?

The more support the better, and if someone came to the meeting with 500+ comments opposing it, we would stand a much better chance. Maybe they might listen to us.

Everyone knows most pilots in GA are pussys and will no stand up for themselves, so with the comments list an option you could remain anonymous?

[Mr. Hat]

most pilots in GA are pussys

??Most of the pilots in GA are the same as the guys in the Airlines. They just started a few years later?? They'll eventually be the people that will have these contacts pushed in front of them during their interviews.

Words just can't say how upset everyone is at Jetstar

Yeah you know this is true when senior 320/330 guys start applying to VB!

[m-dot]

QF Drivers

I would think that the QF drivers would want to show up for sure.

If its happening at Jetstar, it cant be too far away from happening at QF. Its certainly in their interests to stop this as well.

In fact I think its in every pilots future (well anyone who wants a viable career from aviation in the future).

[A. Le Rhone]

Wow - so far I'm amazed. As post No 3 on this thread I predicted this would probably degenerate into the usual self-interested, sneering backstabbing that is all too frequently the hallmark of the Australian 'Professional' pilot body. So far so good!

Since at least 1989 we have been played masterfully by skilled airline managers who know exactly how to manipulate us. Our division has only helped them further.

If we can just maintain a degree of forward vision over perceived short-term personal benefit then we will have taken the first step in re-instating the rewards sought after years of slugging it out for historically low pay and conditions.

My next wish-list item would be a truly united AIPA/AFAP/J*/VB etc union with members who have the nouse to put the past behind them and move forward for the benefit of EVERYBODY.

Sure you will always have the inevitable snakes who will undermine us all as a collective group by undercutting etc but the ONLY way to gain improvements for all Professional pilots is to do so as a collective and united group.

Whilst a new united union may result through efficiencies of scale in the loss of a few clerical/admin jobs it would hugely benefit the lot of ALL Australian pilots and surely that should be the ultimate aim?

Great to see people taking the initiative.

[1a sound asleep]

PLEASE - Stop at consider what is really happening to the airline industry in Australia

1. Airlines are not making any real profits. QF's latest profit comes from payments for dealyed a/c deliveries and selling FF points to Woolworths
2. The cost structure of Australian Airlines is under threat from the Asian carriers who have substantially lower costs ie. AirASiaX
3. Incomes in the industry will fall to try and compete
4. Unless costs can be controlled (and part of this problem is middle management) airlines operating into and in Australia will become primarily Asian owned ie. Tiger
5. The days of huge salary and the laid back lifestyle are gone
6. If you want high income go get a job selling insurance or become a dentist or lawyer
7. Rember 1989. 1989 Part II is coming

THINK
a. Save the industry
b. Save your jobs
c. Secure the future

[no one]

Would love to attend but based away from SYD and flying that day.

Good luck and look forward to the post meeting outcomes...

[Baldnfat]

What effect on the Australian economy (just after an election??) would parking everything at the gate/terminal/strip/loading pad/helipad whatever you want to call it and walking away for 1 day have?

I can't attend the meeting. I Cannot afford the trip on my GA salary!!!!!

I will not fly anywhere on this day, by choice.

Good luck and safe travels to All.

[1a sound asleep]

What effect on the Australian economy (just after an election??) would parking everything at the gate/terminal/strip/loading pad/helipad whatever you want to call it and walking away for 1 day have?

Sorry to offend but what part of 1989 do you not understand?
1989 Australian pilots' dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An orchestrated move that back fired in the worst possible way. Just ask the crews that NEVER flew again in Australia. I have said it before and I say it again 1989 part II is coming

[magicbox]

With the greatest of respect Woody, how is this going to affect a GADRIVR and his/her terms and conditions out there in GA land?

I'd like to say that I'd be attending however the porpose of this meeting seems firmly aimed at resolving the present predicament that the QF group aircrew find themselves in at the moment, and as such, will not affect me one way or the other (nothing changes in other words).

For those that think along similar lines have a good hard look at yourself and your mates in aviation.

It won't affect me....
Wrong...

It might not affect you today, maybe not tomorrow but you can't bet your last breath it will affect you.
So you're a GA pilot, do you want to stay where you are?
How about when it comes time to move up the ranks only to find out the position you've applied to has already been filled by cheaper labour.
Or the job you dreamt of for so long pays less than it did 1,2,3,4,5.....20 years ago when you said arrogantly it won't affect me.
Or how about when it comes time to get another GA job or the boss turns up one day with a re-negotiation for you.

Think it won't happen. What happens when this gets pushed through by Jetstar.
You decide (along with plenty of others), I didn't want to go there anyway...T&C's are garbage.
Movement stops. Jobs are still filled by contractors, foreigners or whom ever.
You go to your boss....I'm still here, a loyal employee, no incidents blah blah blah, how about a payrise.
Boss turns around, yeah but you're not leaving nor is anyone else. They pay crap over at xxxx so why should I pay you more, they work harder, its a jet/prop, more demanding etc etc etc the list goes on.

Anyone who is anyone should attend this meeting from students to charter guys, RFDS through to airline pilots.

If you knew you were going to be on lesser T&C's in 5-20yrs from now than you are today......what would you do?

Think it won't happen. Try a little research