Sharp to take over Airlines of Tasmania's routes
Looks like tough times on King Island, ABC landline reporting meatworks to be closed down with the loss of 100 jobs.
Rex droping Tuesday flights over the last few months.
Rex droping Tuesday flights over the last few months.
Fleet upgrade, any idea on what new type? Saab or Dash 8 100/200 would work well down there, even a 1900D might do ok. In any case a fleet upgrade to a larger type will be a big project. Tasmania certainly needs a good long term well equipped regional airline and Sharp Airlines, especially since the demise of Airlines of TAS (the old one) has gone a long way to restore this in a tough economic and legislative environment.
Last edited by Waghi Warrior; 13th May 2013 at 18:53.
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to Flinders? population of 897, c'mon let's be serious
maybe if REX pull out of King Island, a larger plane would be ok for Melbourne - King Island, but these aren't big population centers, I think anything above a Metro is pushing it.
maybe if REX pull out of King Island, a larger plane would be ok for Melbourne - King Island, but these aren't big population centers, I think anything above a Metro is pushing it.
Last edited by fanning; 17th May 2013 at 03:32.
fanning,
Populations got nothing to do with my last post, I was talking about fleet replacement. can't see the flying pencils be a viable option long term. Maybe a Dash 8 might be an overkill on a daily service, I don't know, but a 1900D would be a good replacement. I note from Sharp's website that they also do FIFO for resource companies, wouldn't be that hard to integrate a larger type into low yield routes and routine FIFO charter/RPT operations especially with more than one aircraft.
WW
Populations got nothing to do with my last post, I was talking about fleet replacement. can't see the flying pencils be a viable option long term. Maybe a Dash 8 might be an overkill on a daily service, I don't know, but a 1900D would be a good replacement. I note from Sharp's website that they also do FIFO for resource companies, wouldn't be that hard to integrate a larger type into low yield routes and routine FIFO charter/RPT operations especially with more than one aircraft.
WW
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Islanders are nortories for lobbying for a world class service and when they get a good operator with some modern equipment they winge the airfares are to high and fly with some dodgy pvt operator in a clapped out single . I would be very weary of investing big money that depended on local support to survive , they will walk away if it saves them $10 .
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Some family friends at KI mentioned that King Island Airlines has been sold to new owners with "big plans" anyone know more?
I did notice when I was on the island for a few days a couple of weeks ago that the "Bandit" was making daily freight trips but that may have been a one-off as the sea service was suspended I think due to wharf damage at Grassy.
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And why pray tell are we still operating Metro types along with the B1900 on so called airline ops that are proscribed, for certification issues, from doing so in the US.
But of course we are a third world country in terms aviation.
But of course we are a third world country in terms aviation.
Last edited by gaunty; 4th Jun 2013 at 14:16.
......but thankfully not as densely populated as most third world countries. There is the rub - with not enough people to move around, how do operators generate enough revenue to afford the good gear? Without gouging the poor mugs who need to fly regardless of the service and equipment on offer.
Should the taxpayer fund unprofitable routes via subsidies? Maybe that would be a way for Mum & Pop Airlines to upgrade to Wunderjets, simultaneously allowing the Directors (Mum & Pop, of course) to have new boats and cars - but not with my taxes, thank you. A subject in itself.
At reasonably-affordable airfares, even a written-down Metro must be a marginal proposition unless it is nearly full on every sector. As for the 'toy airliner' B1900 - these things will be dead sooner than any Metro, so why would anyone invest in them, unless no Metros can be had? Besides, anything as ugly as that has to be high maintenance (do LAMEs perform cosmetic surgery?).
I will sit in the back of a well-maintained and professionally-flown Metro any day - if that is what it takes to get me where I need to go. Island communities better hope that there will still be Metros available in the used market with useful hours remaining on the airframes for many more years. If they whine about the lack of comfort, they need to ponder the fact that their only other affordable alternative has a cruise speed of about 20 knots.
Yeah yeah, I know all about certification and performance margins and accept that there is an elevated risk with the older standards. But not as bad a risk as a DC3, which - love it as I do - I most emphatically would NOT fly in as a pax. Yet many would.
Should the taxpayer fund unprofitable routes via subsidies? Maybe that would be a way for Mum & Pop Airlines to upgrade to Wunderjets, simultaneously allowing the Directors (Mum & Pop, of course) to have new boats and cars - but not with my taxes, thank you. A subject in itself.
At reasonably-affordable airfares, even a written-down Metro must be a marginal proposition unless it is nearly full on every sector. As for the 'toy airliner' B1900 - these things will be dead sooner than any Metro, so why would anyone invest in them, unless no Metros can be had? Besides, anything as ugly as that has to be high maintenance (do LAMEs perform cosmetic surgery?).
I will sit in the back of a well-maintained and professionally-flown Metro any day - if that is what it takes to get me where I need to go. Island communities better hope that there will still be Metros available in the used market with useful hours remaining on the airframes for many more years. If they whine about the lack of comfort, they need to ponder the fact that their only other affordable alternative has a cruise speed of about 20 knots.
Yeah yeah, I know all about certification and performance margins and accept that there is an elevated risk with the older standards. But not as bad a risk as a DC3, which - love it as I do - I most emphatically would NOT fly in as a pax. Yet many would.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 5th Jun 2013 at 05:07.
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Good post , build it and they will come . Islands need 10,000 population to deliver the type of service they want . Run that figure and they will howl the roof down with their protests of unsatanable and environment can't take it , we are seeing the last of the govt subsidiesed era .
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Unless something has changed the original Dash 8 had a break even load factor in the low thirty percents.
Mach E
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about people making money out of aviation. Gouging, reasonably affordable fares whatever that means, directors new boats and cars paid for bt our taxes. Whatever are you smoking.
It s the the wannabes who have driven the price/revenue to where it is.
The dumb****s who bid for the previously subsidised routes by racing every one else to the bottom by convincing Govt, as if they need convimcing they can do it without subsidy. Once it's gone it's gone and ultimately usually the service as well. Then the bottom feeders scrape Zoe dollars together and buy an old heap of crap, put pay for job FOs
in the RH seat and convince themselves they have a business. The only people asking money out of that scenario are the MROs.
Mach E
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about people making money out of aviation. Gouging, reasonably affordable fares whatever that means, directors new boats and cars paid for bt our taxes. Whatever are you smoking.
It s the the wannabes who have driven the price/revenue to where it is.
The dumb****s who bid for the previously subsidised routes by racing every one else to the bottom by convincing Govt, as if they need convimcing they can do it without subsidy. Once it's gone it's gone and ultimately usually the service as well. Then the bottom feeders scrape Zoe dollars together and buy an old heap of crap, put pay for job FOs
in the RH seat and convince themselves they have a business. The only people asking money out of that scenario are the MROs.
No chip at all. I have benefitted mucho (thank you guys) from being employed by profitable operators. But I have also experienced first hand spivs who use other people's money to build empires which come crashing back to earth because the Wunderjets don't earn enough to refuel the boats and big cars. It's funny how the staff in these situations get the shaft while the boats and cars often remain. And after a year or two holidaying in the Bahamas the same spivs return to start the ripoff process all over again.Pay-to-fly F/Os in the RHS is neither a new nor necessarily exploitative concept. Eddie Connellan had a version of it way back in the 60's. Pilots learned to fly at his school in Alice. Then they got a seat in the Heron as bagsnatcher-cum-radio operator. If they scrubbed up OK they then had a go at driving a Cessna 180 or Beech Twin Bo and eventually back to the Heron - if the airlines hadn't by then snapped them up. Many a good career and lotsa motza was made from those humble beginnings.
An old Dash 8 is unlikely to offer any economic advantage over a Metro, given the lease and crewing costs. Unless, of course our Islanders travel in the numbers needed to rule out the Metro i.e. more than 18 per sector.
That should then attract the attention of Rex, Qlink or Skywest/Virgin - or would it not? If not, why not?
Perhaps the Government needs to come the heavy when awarding routes to the bigger guys and dictate that they have a social responsibility to serve unprofitable remote areas? I think that's how it once happened, but don't know if this is still the case. I am bewildered at how one can fly from Melbourne to Brisbane for less than from Melbourne to Flinders Island. Something to do with economy of scale, I believe.
Forcing the higher-end operators to run thin routes with flash new equipment at a loss would surely jack up airfares overall? Someone has to pay. Without taxpayer-funded subsidies there will probably always be a place for Gaunty's 'bottom feeder' operators, running single-pilot capable 19 seaters with token F/Os in the RHS. Sure, they will come and go, meantime giving the Islanders an alternative to the boat. For anyone that does survive, the problem they will ultimately face is the lack of viable 19 seaters still in production. Maybe the Chinese or Russians will help in that area.
But as I freely admit, I don't study airline economics nowadays.
Bring back the Heron.....
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 6th Jun 2013 at 01:01.
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Firstly I can confirm that Sharp Airlines is not the purchaser of KingIsland Airlines. But good luck to the new owners who are Sydney based or so therumour has it.
Secondly our FO's are not "pay to fly" FO's butundertake a cadet program that has been in existence for over 20 years. Theyare paid correctly under the award and all as we do is offer them a way inwhich to accelerate their careers. Its a great win/win as we get a well trained FO already aligned to company SOP's etc and they get a paid job for 12 months or more to get them started in aviation.
Most of these young men and women have gone on to fly withthe major airlines and GA outfits a fact we are very proud of and I know a fewof you reading this will have flown with 1 or 2 in your time. Whilst they arewith us we nurture them through their first 2-3 years in aviation. But I don’t wishto upset the moderators by pushing our case any further as I am happy to standby our reputation. If you want to come and see them in action Gaunty I would behappy for you to plug in any day…the tickets on me and the fishing in Flindersis great all year round!
On the other topic of supporting the Bass Strait Island’sthe Metroliner does the job very well. I to as a pilot would love to be flying aroundin a “flash Dash” or something similar but boys the economics do not stack uplet alone if you have looked at the purchase price even for an old -100 lately!
Our Metro 23 airframes are low time and believe it or notare still well supported for parts and technical assistance worldwide. So justto dispel the last remaining rumour….there is no plan for a fleet upgradeanytime soon. Sorry to disappoint you.
Have a good weekend and stay safe.
Hey, not fair giving Gaunty a ticket for bagging you and yet none for me. He does not believe in Metros; I do.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 6th Jun 2013 at 05:23.
When I worked for Airlines Of Tasmania in 1988, they survived because they had purchased the Herons at some bargain price from Northern Airlines in the early 80's. During that era Island population was a lot bigger, as the scheelite mine was still a going concern.
After I moved on in 1989 Airlines of Tas, replaced the Herons with the Shorts 360, which was the supposed to be the best option for them, but the costs of operating that and the downturn on the island mine closure sent them broke.
After I moved on in 1989 Airlines of Tas, replaced the Herons with the Shorts 360, which was the supposed to be the best option for them, but the costs of operating that and the downturn on the island mine closure sent them broke.