Jetstar pilot EBA dead
I'd suggest that some of the most treacherous, self-serving examples of pilot management comes from ex-89ers. Who introduced the low cost pilot model into Australia?
Let's move on from 89 eh. I've seen the scum bags on both sides......
Let's move on from 89 eh. I've seen the scum bags on both sides......
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Who introduced the low cost pilot model into Australia?
The current generation reap what has been sewn by previous generations. Avition history is full of examples of conditions of the junior pilots being eroded by the seniour pilots to preserve their own end. B scales are a prime example of this. The current generation have 2 choices. Take it or leave it.
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Again I see confirmation of why this is a rumour network.
One poster states a hearsay as fact and everyone leaps on assuming it is true.
The EBA is NOT dead. Nothing has changed in respect of the Australian EBA.
There are mooted changes for offshore activities but there has been no change to the Australian EBA or the pilots it covers.
The Labour Governments FWA will prevent the dreaded influx, unlike Work Choices. You have no idea how much it hurts me to say that but it is true and a paradigm shift from 19?? under Labour.
Whiskery,
I would suggest Gnadenburg is correctly referring to a certain ex AFAP Vice-President who was the original Chief Pilot of VB, (or Director of Flight Ops or some similar title) a start up low cost carrier. Nothing to do with the Owner or MD of Impulse.
One poster states a hearsay as fact and everyone leaps on assuming it is true.
The EBA is NOT dead. Nothing has changed in respect of the Australian EBA.
There are mooted changes for offshore activities but there has been no change to the Australian EBA or the pilots it covers.
The Labour Governments FWA will prevent the dreaded influx, unlike Work Choices. You have no idea how much it hurts me to say that but it is true and a paradigm shift from 19?? under Labour.
Whiskery,
I would suggest Gnadenburg is correctly referring to a certain ex AFAP Vice-President who was the original Chief Pilot of VB, (or Director of Flight Ops or some similar title) a start up low cost carrier. Nothing to do with the Owner or MD of Impulse.
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If not, Jetstar will find ways we cant even imagine to further erode J* Oz conditions
.
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Lets be honest, since 1989 pilots in Australia have proven to managements time and time again that they are more than willing to destroy each other and the profession.
YOU reap what YOU sow.... no point being spineless and blaming managements for YOUR own shortcomings and therefore managements "natural selection" and opportunism.
YOU reap what YOU sow.... no point being spineless and blaming managements for YOUR own shortcomings and therefore managements "natural selection" and opportunism.
those "managers", CEO's, HR can all goto another job when they "get over the rigors of an airline job"..... and probably get more time off and similar $$$..... a-sholes
Jetstar Oz EBA not finished untill 2013
Click these links to download the EBA and "what you should be earning" PDF.
what you should be earning
link fixed :-)
Jetstar_2008_EBA
this has reached its download limit of 10. so if u downloaded it please share again if asked.
Willie nice wind up.
Whiskery
It was actually harnessed by ex-89ers. They came to back to Australia, dumb, desperate or spiteful, to get 100K a year as VB 737 TRG Captains. Incumbents were getting double that.
I hope I never have to lower my colors like that professionally.
It was actually harnessed by ex-89ers. They came to back to Australia, dumb, desperate or spiteful, to get 100K a year as VB 737 TRG Captains. Incumbents were getting double that.
I hope I never have to lower my colors like that professionally.
Well it shouldn't be. I'm just pointing out my belief is 1989 had nothing to do with the race to the bottom.
However, many 89ers are as greater catalysts as any other group.
radnav had a stupid view that 89 is where all today's problems can be traced back to. Hardly. In my travels and observations, there are few white knight on either side from that generation in leadership roles.
Back to the thread. 89 is irrelevant in this case.....
However, many 89ers are as greater catalysts as any other group.
radnav had a stupid view that 89 is where all today's problems can be traced back to. Hardly. In my travels and observations, there are few white knight on either side from that generation in leadership roles.
Back to the thread. 89 is irrelevant in this case.....
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I think if you really want to see where the future of aviation is heading in this country, specifically with repsect to pilots, one only needs to look at what is happening in the U.S. as we speak. YouTube - Michael Moore's 'Capitalism: A Love Story' - Pilots on Food Stamps
not much to look forward to no matter who you work for.
not much to look forward to no matter who you work for.
Grandpa Aerotart
EBA 4 is dead?
I hardly think so.
1/. J* have a requirement to crew widebodies ex Singapore.
2/. J* are offering current J* Oz staff the opportunity to bid for that work based on seniority and T&Cs to be advised for a 2 year period while maintaining their Oz basing and seniority as per EBA 4. Capt/FO A from Sydney can decide it might be fun to go and fly wide bodies for a couple of years in Singapore and see what its like - and if they don't like, or even if they do but don't want to continue, they can come home to their old position and basing.
3/. Clearly as Capt/FO A's temporary departure has created a vacancy in Sydney, or wherever, that needs to be filled. Capt/FO B, say a BNE based pilot, can bid on seniority to fill that vacancy for a 2 year period. Theoretically an FO might get 2 years command flying.
4/. If no one employed on EBA 4 bids for that position it goes out to any employee of the J* family of companies - a J* NZ, J* Asia or J* VN pilot could bid for it but not on seniority because those operations don't have seniority - let alone seniority within J* Oz. Capt/FO C in AKL/SIN/SGN could get a Oz basing for 2 years
5/. Any new pilot joining J* Oz is employed under EBA 4.
6/. Some pilots who joined J* Oz were offered a seniority number and 2 years unpaid leave to go and work for J* Other on whatever T&Cs applied to the specific 'other' and when they come back they get the base/seat their seniority buys them. Pilots directly employed by J* other don't have seniority in J* Oz - can it be any other way?
7/. If, at the end of 2 years, Capt/FO A returns to his base/seat then Capt/FO B or C returns to his base/seat.
Capt/FO A, B or C are not forced to do anything. This whole setup is J* management following the letter of EBA 4 by offering J* Oz pilots an opportunity to experience something they otherwise wouldn't at absolutely no risk to themselves.
J* Oz managements only mistake?
Underestimating the true extent, in the wider pilot community generally and AIPA specifically, of 'dumb as a box of rocks'.
I hardly think so.
1/. J* have a requirement to crew widebodies ex Singapore.
2/. J* are offering current J* Oz staff the opportunity to bid for that work based on seniority and T&Cs to be advised for a 2 year period while maintaining their Oz basing and seniority as per EBA 4. Capt/FO A from Sydney can decide it might be fun to go and fly wide bodies for a couple of years in Singapore and see what its like - and if they don't like, or even if they do but don't want to continue, they can come home to their old position and basing.
3/. Clearly as Capt/FO A's temporary departure has created a vacancy in Sydney, or wherever, that needs to be filled. Capt/FO B, say a BNE based pilot, can bid on seniority to fill that vacancy for a 2 year period. Theoretically an FO might get 2 years command flying.
4/. If no one employed on EBA 4 bids for that position it goes out to any employee of the J* family of companies - a J* NZ, J* Asia or J* VN pilot could bid for it but not on seniority because those operations don't have seniority - let alone seniority within J* Oz. Capt/FO C in AKL/SIN/SGN could get a Oz basing for 2 years
5/. Any new pilot joining J* Oz is employed under EBA 4.
6/. Some pilots who joined J* Oz were offered a seniority number and 2 years unpaid leave to go and work for J* Other on whatever T&Cs applied to the specific 'other' and when they come back they get the base/seat their seniority buys them. Pilots directly employed by J* other don't have seniority in J* Oz - can it be any other way?
7/. If, at the end of 2 years, Capt/FO A returns to his base/seat then Capt/FO B or C returns to his base/seat.
Capt/FO A, B or C are not forced to do anything. This whole setup is J* management following the letter of EBA 4 by offering J* Oz pilots an opportunity to experience something they otherwise wouldn't at absolutely no risk to themselves.
J* Oz managements only mistake?
Underestimating the true extent, in the wider pilot community generally and AIPA specifically, of 'dumb as a box of rocks'.
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CC.
That is how I read the FSO except for point 4 and 5.
I read it as any pilot employed bu a Jet* entity can bid for any position in any Jet* entity. And the position will be allocated on Merit, NOT seniority.
Any new pilot that joins Jet* OZ will be employed under new conditions under the new Jet* 'Group', conditions.
And yes, no one will be forced to do anything.
However if you are right, then there is nothing for any of us to worry about.
I`m worried though!
That is how I read the FSO except for point 4 and 5.
I read it as any pilot employed bu a Jet* entity can bid for any position in any Jet* entity. And the position will be allocated on Merit, NOT seniority.
Any new pilot that joins Jet* OZ will be employed under new conditions under the new Jet* 'Group', conditions.
And yes, no one will be forced to do anything.
However if you are right, then there is nothing for any of us to worry about.
I`m worried though!
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Also not too sure about point 4. I think that the A330 opportunities are open to ANY pilot within the J* group and will be awarded solely on merit and not seniority. J* OZ guys don't automatically get first bite at the cherry, although it would make sense to move the highest paid pilots first and replace them with a pilot from NZ, Vietnam on the NEW conditions!