JQ Bali turnaround 'unsafe'
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God forbid they should have their own apprentice scheme
Jetstar Engineering does perfrom line maintenance is a number of ports. I think the exclusions are PER and DRW which are contracted to Qantas.
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Jetstar Engineering does perfrom line maintenance is a number of ports. I think the exclusions are PER and DRW which are contracted to Qantas
Never said that wasn't the case (and thus fail to see your point). Although, I believe you can add ADL to the Qantas list.
As for their apprentice scheme, unlike big brother (QF), they certainly aren't going out of their way to promote it.
Back to thread-Jetstar management will undermine terms and conditions up until the unthinkable happens. Then they'll just run for cover.
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Not correct. CASA do intend to introduce F&D type limits for cabin crew.
When, though is another matter .
When, though is another matter .
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You're correct. ADL is also contracted to Qantas.
The apprenticeship scheme is on a much smaller scale then Qantas, however positions are advertised on the recruitment site when vacancies are available.
The apprenticeship scheme is on a much smaller scale then Qantas, however positions are advertised on the recruitment site when vacancies are available.
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Managers Perspective,
CC sitting by the door in the last few mins of a 20-hour duty; slightly dozy as the a/c taxis onto stand. Misses the doors-disarm announcement and forgets to disarm slide.
Door is later opened whilst a groundie stands outside on stairs (opener assumes door disarmed and neglects to check). Bam! Groundie is knocked backwards by inflating slide. Falls down stairs and dies from head injuries.
Leaving aside the human factors aspects of any member of crew being awake and on duty for the better part of 20 hours, you'd be happy for a person who's just worked that long straight to perhaps be heading, on their drive home, towards a zebra crossing which your kids are negotiating at the time?
Your comment about the skipper's coffee or a scotch is a cheap shot which says far more about you than the crew you are attempting to belittle with such comments. Comments like that only demonstrate that the 'manager's perspective' is to denigrate employees at all possible opportunities. Without those employees, you'd have nothing to "manage". A good manager knows the value of their employees and seeks to build them up, not engage in the sort of tear-down you've exhibited here.
CC sitting by the door in the last few mins of a 20-hour duty; slightly dozy as the a/c taxis onto stand. Misses the doors-disarm announcement and forgets to disarm slide.
Door is later opened whilst a groundie stands outside on stairs (opener assumes door disarmed and neglects to check). Bam! Groundie is knocked backwards by inflating slide. Falls down stairs and dies from head injuries.
Leaving aside the human factors aspects of any member of crew being awake and on duty for the better part of 20 hours, you'd be happy for a person who's just worked that long straight to perhaps be heading, on their drive home, towards a zebra crossing which your kids are negotiating at the time?
Your comment about the skipper's coffee or a scotch is a cheap shot which says far more about you than the crew you are attempting to belittle with such comments. Comments like that only demonstrate that the 'manager's perspective' is to denigrate employees at all possible opportunities. Without those employees, you'd have nothing to "manage". A good manager knows the value of their employees and seeks to build them up, not engage in the sort of tear-down you've exhibited here.
Last edited by Taildragger67; 1st Jul 2010 at 07:50.
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We probably need to check to see if Managers Perspective has a pulse with comments like that.
Anyone ( except MP) could tell you that a TOD of 20 hours does not mean you have been awake for 20 hours !!!!. Usually its more like 30-36 hours when you factor in the time you naturally woke up /jet lag etc.
We once diverted to Stockholm on a QF1 in the northern winter. TOD was 19:55. We were like absolute zombies. In fact, I still remember the crew were laughing and giggling all the way to the Swiss Cottage Hotel........and no one had a drink !!!! We were so zonked from the flight.......we were literally "off our heads".
So Dragger your point is a good one .......what if ??????
Studies in fatigue on shift workers have been done by the Uni of South Aust. But for some reason -QF Management "duck & weave" whenever the F- word is mentioned.
God forbid.....we may have to pay the crew an extra allowance to compensate
FOOLS
Anyone ( except MP) could tell you that a TOD of 20 hours does not mean you have been awake for 20 hours !!!!. Usually its more like 30-36 hours when you factor in the time you naturally woke up /jet lag etc.
We once diverted to Stockholm on a QF1 in the northern winter. TOD was 19:55. We were like absolute zombies. In fact, I still remember the crew were laughing and giggling all the way to the Swiss Cottage Hotel........and no one had a drink !!!! We were so zonked from the flight.......we were literally "off our heads".
So Dragger your point is a good one .......what if ??????
Studies in fatigue on shift workers have been done by the Uni of South Aust. But for some reason -QF Management "duck & weave" whenever the F- word is mentioned.
God forbid.....we may have to pay the crew an extra allowance to compensate
FOOLS
At a mine I once worked as a contractor, the induction consisted of a discussion of fatigue. The mine would not allow people who had worked a shift longer than, IIRC, 15 hours to drive home.
The reason? Someone had done so, fallen asleep and crashed. Badly. One lawsuit later and the aforementioned policy was put in place.
Our resident trolling manager's perspective will be different when looking UP at a judge.
The reason? Someone had done so, fallen asleep and crashed. Badly. One lawsuit later and the aforementioned policy was put in place.
Our resident trolling manager's perspective will be different when looking UP at a judge.
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Long John.....I was not suggesting the payment of an individual allowance to combat fatigue. This would be ridiculous.
However, it seems that whenever Crew approach management at Qantas with a Health & Safety /Fatigue issue.......they THINK we want more money.
WRONG !
We want the issue examined, discussed and "managed" in such a way that people are not put at risk either on or off the aircraft.
The F-word is not new. It covers all industries that work at the back of the clock- on shift. But, until we can take this discussion past the EBA/$$$/trade off arena and cover it off as a "looking after our People" program....then it will be just talk and people are going to be injured.
.........and yes Fatigue Management will be a cost to the business -but ultimately it will be cheaper than a Workcover/Insurance pay out.
However, it seems that whenever Crew approach management at Qantas with a Health & Safety /Fatigue issue.......they THINK we want more money.
WRONG !
We want the issue examined, discussed and "managed" in such a way that people are not put at risk either on or off the aircraft.
The F-word is not new. It covers all industries that work at the back of the clock- on shift. But, until we can take this discussion past the EBA/$$$/trade off arena and cover it off as a "looking after our People" program....then it will be just talk and people are going to be injured.
.........and yes Fatigue Management will be a cost to the business -but ultimately it will be cheaper than a Workcover/Insurance pay out.
Any truth in the rumour that Buchanan is off on stress leave....maybe he is getting one too many letters from concerned pax.
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One in each hand
Any truth in the rumour that Buchanan is off on stress leave....maybe he is getting one too many letters from concerned pax.
Thread Starter
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My REPCON about this very real crew fatigue problem at Jetstar has been acknowledged....
Dear Julius
Thank you for your report R201000083.
Personal information about the reporter and any person referred to in the report is required by legislation to be kept confidential. If you believe it would be necessary to act on information about an individual referred to in your report then you should consider reporting this directly to CASA. CASA’s confidential hotline number is 1800 074 737. Enclosed in italics below is a draft de-identified report text written from your report.
Would you please review it to ensure:
• that it is factually accurate (in case I have misunderstood something),
• that it states what you want stated
• that it is complete and makes all the points that you want made
• that it does not contain any detail which would permit a reader to identify you as the source of the report (report is required to be sent to the named parties before it can be sent to CASA).
Draft de-identified report:
The reporter expressed safety concerns that the aircraft cabin crew had conducted a return Bali flight from Melbourne to Bali to Sydney, having worked for more than eighteen hours of flight and duty time.
Reporter comment: I believe the fatigue level of the cabin crew was too high to deal with an emergency if we had one at the end of the flight. The cabin crew should overnight in Bali like the flight crew do especially as the crew rest facilities on the A330 do not seem adequate for a proper rest.
Please feel free to suggest changes. You can get back to me either by return e-mail or by telephone on 1800 020 505.
All the best
Suzanne
Dear Julius
Thank you for your report R201000083.
Personal information about the reporter and any person referred to in the report is required by legislation to be kept confidential. If you believe it would be necessary to act on information about an individual referred to in your report then you should consider reporting this directly to CASA. CASA’s confidential hotline number is 1800 074 737. Enclosed in italics below is a draft de-identified report text written from your report.
Would you please review it to ensure:
• that it is factually accurate (in case I have misunderstood something),
• that it states what you want stated
• that it is complete and makes all the points that you want made
• that it does not contain any detail which would permit a reader to identify you as the source of the report (report is required to be sent to the named parties before it can be sent to CASA).
Draft de-identified report:
The reporter expressed safety concerns that the aircraft cabin crew had conducted a return Bali flight from Melbourne to Bali to Sydney, having worked for more than eighteen hours of flight and duty time.
Reporter comment: I believe the fatigue level of the cabin crew was too high to deal with an emergency if we had one at the end of the flight. The cabin crew should overnight in Bali like the flight crew do especially as the crew rest facilities on the A330 do not seem adequate for a proper rest.
Please feel free to suggest changes. You can get back to me either by return e-mail or by telephone on 1800 020 505.
All the best
Suzanne
