Emirates to recruit 700 pilots in next 18 months
WIZ go sulk under you rock ( sand ) PM me your mobile. AS if I want to talk to you. I get enough pointless calls in DXB from financial whatevers.
Calm down, Loosest on earth, just want people to know how crap our rosters CAN be. Yes other airlines have similar FTL's, but do they push them to the limits we often experience.
please show me another airline that does DXB - SFO 2 days off and DXB - SYD. Then again fatigue is a myth to guys like you is it?
Anyway everyone make your own mind up, don't listen to us, what would we know. Just don't complain 6 months after you join.
Calm down, Loosest on earth, just want people to know how crap our rosters CAN be. Yes other airlines have similar FTL's, but do they push them to the limits we often experience.
please show me another airline that does DXB - SFO 2 days off and DXB - SYD. Then again fatigue is a myth to guys like you is it?
Anyway everyone make your own mind up, don't listen to us, what would we know. Just don't complain 6 months after you join.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wizofoz,
I don't want to get into the debate about the relative merits of EK FTL and living in the sandpit, but I must correct your recollection of Ansett's Japan operation. AN never operated to Tokyo, the only destination was KIX, and the BOC flight was KIX-BNE, not KIX-SYD. From memory the scheduled flight time time was less than 9 hours. Also that was only operated by the B747 not the B767.
I don't want to get into the debate about the relative merits of EK FTL and living in the sandpit, but I must correct your recollection of Ansett's Japan operation. AN never operated to Tokyo, the only destination was KIX, and the BOC flight was KIX-BNE, not KIX-SYD. From memory the scheduled flight time time was less than 9 hours. Also that was only operated by the B747 not the B767.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WIZFOZ
Son. What colour are your glasses? I know of an ex Emirate Captain who quit the desert to fly a simulator in Brisbane. The flying was life destroying. He must have taken quite a pay drop as well.
Son. What colour are your glasses? I know of an ex Emirate Captain who quit the desert to fly a simulator in Brisbane. The flying was life destroying. He must have taken quite a pay drop as well.
DGR,
Thanks for that. Point is, everything we do at EK would have been legal under the AN exemption, AND we got to do an extra 100hrs per year.
A380- Good news- silly to have the guy sitting in the back, though, when he could be helping out.
Capt777,
See, this is what annoys me. Read my posts. I try and give a fair and balanced view of the good and the bad here, but anything but a hysterical, totally negative post as seen from most here (who, you might notice, seem to choose to stay. There is at least one regular poster on the ME board who has been bitching incessantly, saying how he's leaving if things don't improve, for almost FIVE YEARS!) meets with derision and insult.
We are working bloody hard to an extent that is acknowledged as unsustainable. I start a week tonight that will leave me totally buggered. My point is that's the game and I've had periods the same pretty much everywhere I've worked, and next month my Family and I fly free, business class to JFK for leave.
Yes some have left. One guy I know is leaving to become a Real Estate salesman and I wish him all the very best.
But a lot more are coming than leaving and most, in spite of the whining, are staying.
Thanks for that. Point is, everything we do at EK would have been legal under the AN exemption, AND we got to do an extra 100hrs per year.
A380- Good news- silly to have the guy sitting in the back, though, when he could be helping out.
Capt777,
See, this is what annoys me. Read my posts. I try and give a fair and balanced view of the good and the bad here, but anything but a hysterical, totally negative post as seen from most here (who, you might notice, seem to choose to stay. There is at least one regular poster on the ME board who has been bitching incessantly, saying how he's leaving if things don't improve, for almost FIVE YEARS!) meets with derision and insult.
We are working bloody hard to an extent that is acknowledged as unsustainable. I start a week tonight that will leave me totally buggered. My point is that's the game and I've had periods the same pretty much everywhere I've worked, and next month my Family and I fly free, business class to JFK for leave.
Yes some have left. One guy I know is leaving to become a Real Estate salesman and I wish him all the very best.
But a lot more are coming than leaving and most, in spite of the whining, are staying.
Wiz, I believe I too was trying to give a 'balanced' view, by stating fact. Although I don't-yet-know of anyone charged for utilities, the Company have informed all that this will be the case-a flagrant contract violation, and the cause of much angst for many of our peers. You are correct in your statement about the 3% etc as far as my contract goes, but I have friends who have been here well over 10 years whose employment agreement categorically states the increment. Mine (and yours) does it by inference, and if one was to expect 'good faith' on the part of EK, we would have received the increments we were all supposed to for the last couple of years. May I suggest you talk to some EK airport staff outside DXB, who were also categorically told 'no increment'. The company kept this up until faced with the prospect of the AIRC, and then magnanimously decided, at the eleventh hour (and the threat of legal action for contract breach) to pay, with no explanation whatsoever to the staff for the extremely aggressive response they got when first queried. Unfortunately, to the dismay of EK, in the first world the staff have rights and industrial protection.
FTL's: for most they are just that, a limit. For us they are a Target, with no thought of the future consequences of long term fatigue (consider the Orwellian response: We have studied this and you are not fatigued), and the fact that we have numerous pilots on 'forced leave' due to the fact they have hit their 900 hrs. That is notwithstanding that the 900hrs are in reality 1000-1100 as time in the bunk (or simulator, or doing any of the dozen plus mandatory Pelesys courses, SEP's, CRM etc) does not count for FTL's. I don't know of any other major carrier that doesn't count all time on company directed employ for the purposes of duty.
As far as my statement that we have no right to challenge, it was meant in reference to the movement of the overtime threshold, the constant changes in the Medical Insurance (limits on physio etc), the changes to ALT destination conditions for our Nth American colleagues etc...the list goes on, and we can not redress any of this.
The 140 aircraft on order include fleet replacement, I still stand by my assertion that a new joiner would be unlikely to have command prospects in less than 8 years, assuming of course that the Company doesn't arbitrarily change the Upgrade requirements again.
As my previous post said, this is not home. You have none of the rights that you take for granted (unfair dismissal hearings, legal defences etc). If you upset the wrong person you are history, as decisions cannot be reversed due to 'loss of face'. If you come here with your eyes wide open, you may still enjoy yourself, that comes down to the individual experience. I am here because it still works for me, but I do have an exit strategy and a definite time frame.
FTL's: for most they are just that, a limit. For us they are a Target, with no thought of the future consequences of long term fatigue (consider the Orwellian response: We have studied this and you are not fatigued), and the fact that we have numerous pilots on 'forced leave' due to the fact they have hit their 900 hrs. That is notwithstanding that the 900hrs are in reality 1000-1100 as time in the bunk (or simulator, or doing any of the dozen plus mandatory Pelesys courses, SEP's, CRM etc) does not count for FTL's. I don't know of any other major carrier that doesn't count all time on company directed employ for the purposes of duty.
As far as my statement that we have no right to challenge, it was meant in reference to the movement of the overtime threshold, the constant changes in the Medical Insurance (limits on physio etc), the changes to ALT destination conditions for our Nth American colleagues etc...the list goes on, and we can not redress any of this.
The 140 aircraft on order include fleet replacement, I still stand by my assertion that a new joiner would be unlikely to have command prospects in less than 8 years, assuming of course that the Company doesn't arbitrarily change the Upgrade requirements again.
As my previous post said, this is not home. You have none of the rights that you take for granted (unfair dismissal hearings, legal defences etc). If you upset the wrong person you are history, as decisions cannot be reversed due to 'loss of face'. If you come here with your eyes wide open, you may still enjoy yourself, that comes down to the individual experience. I am here because it still works for me, but I do have an exit strategy and a definite time frame.
Hi CTL,
That IS a well balanced post, but I do disagree with a couple of points-
Your first paragraph seems to actually confirm what I said. i.e Emirates have not broken the letter of the contract (Increments only ever went to ten years, didn't they? So anyone here ten years was on top increment anyway), and if they did, the respondent has redress in the courts of the country the agreement was signed in.
Of course we don't have legal redress for reduction in conditions the company weren't legally bound to provide. Dissapointing, certainly, but you can only ever count on what is in black and white. An "Implied" right, like a verbal contract, isn't worth the price of the paper it's written on!
As to FTLs, sorry, but EVERY company (bar one) I have worked for has treated then as a target. At easyJet we had to sub-charter in aircraft every year as the majority of our pilots hit their 900hr limit. At Ansett we had guys hitting the 1000hrs. Not saying it's right or good, but it isn't unique by any means.
Factoring is a crock and I suspect will not last given some time.
Simulator and Ground duty IS duty for the purpose of max duty time and required days off/ rest periods. It is NOT credit time for pay purposes. Again, this varies in other companies. In AN you got credit for Sim, at EZ you didn't. In NONE of them did it count towards monthly or yearly hour limits.
Yes we will retire some aircraft, but the current orders do mean a substantial net gain in numbers. But, my crystal ball is no clearer than yours. Could be four years, could be twelve. I agree that anyone joining now better be resigned to a sizable spell in the RHS.
Totally correct that we don't have anything like the legal framework and protections we do at home.Anyone coming HAS to understand they are coming to a place with a completely different set of values when it comes to the law, employment, fairness and morality.
That is one of the things that makes Australia such a great place to live.
And THAT is one of the reasons Australian airlines can be such S@#T employers and still get as many applicants as they need!!
That IS a well balanced post, but I do disagree with a couple of points-
Your first paragraph seems to actually confirm what I said. i.e Emirates have not broken the letter of the contract (Increments only ever went to ten years, didn't they? So anyone here ten years was on top increment anyway), and if they did, the respondent has redress in the courts of the country the agreement was signed in.
Of course we don't have legal redress for reduction in conditions the company weren't legally bound to provide. Dissapointing, certainly, but you can only ever count on what is in black and white. An "Implied" right, like a verbal contract, isn't worth the price of the paper it's written on!
As to FTLs, sorry, but EVERY company (bar one) I have worked for has treated then as a target. At easyJet we had to sub-charter in aircraft every year as the majority of our pilots hit their 900hr limit. At Ansett we had guys hitting the 1000hrs. Not saying it's right or good, but it isn't unique by any means.
Factoring is a crock and I suspect will not last given some time.
Simulator and Ground duty IS duty for the purpose of max duty time and required days off/ rest periods. It is NOT credit time for pay purposes. Again, this varies in other companies. In AN you got credit for Sim, at EZ you didn't. In NONE of them did it count towards monthly or yearly hour limits.
Yes we will retire some aircraft, but the current orders do mean a substantial net gain in numbers. But, my crystal ball is no clearer than yours. Could be four years, could be twelve. I agree that anyone joining now better be resigned to a sizable spell in the RHS.
Totally correct that we don't have anything like the legal framework and protections we do at home.Anyone coming HAS to understand they are coming to a place with a completely different set of values when it comes to the law, employment, fairness and morality.
That is one of the things that makes Australia such a great place to live.
And THAT is one of the reasons Australian airlines can be such S@#T employers and still get as many applicants as they need!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Emirates needs 700 Pilots!
Wiz,
I do not wish to stir things up, as this thread is quite obviously turning into a P!ssing contest. You make some very good points and you are obviously relatively happy in the sandpit and good for you (you are one of the few). Some of the other posters have made good points also. However, as an Ex AN driver I have flown the SYD-PER-SYD, MEL-PER-MEL and KIX-BNE-SYD many times and I can honestly say (my opinion) it is nowhere near as knackering as doing 3 night turnarounds at EK! This Company's FDL's are a disgrace, especially when it comes to "factoring". The recent change to the PEK, PVG, ICN flights are typical. I.E. Just change the table (number of sectors not acclimatized) eh voilà! No problem now boys, it's fixed!
How many more fatigue related ASR's to these Bozo's in the 'Bouncy Castle' actually need to stop pontificating and telling us how good the outfit is and how we are all bloody lucky to have a job and actually wake up and smell the Coffee! The EK 407 tailscrape should have been a wake up call as should the JNB, ACC and MAN "incidents".
E.K. Use these FDL's (their "interpretation" of CAP 371) as goal posts! Not a Red line!
The "Contract" I was initially given stated that there were 18 increment years??
To form a balanced view, remind us all please what the pay overtime threshold was at AN? And vs EK?
How much money did this company make this FY?
What was the profit target? and What was our profit share this FY?
How much more flying do we do now?
How much LESS pay do we get now?
How was this Company able to make so much money this FY?
How much annual Leave are we entitled to each year?
What is the maximum consecutive days we can take?
If we do take any leave, is there any credit for it??
Guys and Girls as has been already said, look VERY carefully before you leap. All that glitters is not Gold, and the grass is not always greener, just another shade of brown!
This USED to be a very good job, not any more!!
Take care and fly safe
I do not wish to stir things up, as this thread is quite obviously turning into a P!ssing contest. You make some very good points and you are obviously relatively happy in the sandpit and good for you (you are one of the few). Some of the other posters have made good points also. However, as an Ex AN driver I have flown the SYD-PER-SYD, MEL-PER-MEL and KIX-BNE-SYD many times and I can honestly say (my opinion) it is nowhere near as knackering as doing 3 night turnarounds at EK! This Company's FDL's are a disgrace, especially when it comes to "factoring". The recent change to the PEK, PVG, ICN flights are typical. I.E. Just change the table (number of sectors not acclimatized) eh voilà! No problem now boys, it's fixed!
How many more fatigue related ASR's to these Bozo's in the 'Bouncy Castle' actually need to stop pontificating and telling us how good the outfit is and how we are all bloody lucky to have a job and actually wake up and smell the Coffee! The EK 407 tailscrape should have been a wake up call as should the JNB, ACC and MAN "incidents".
E.K. Use these FDL's (their "interpretation" of CAP 371) as goal posts! Not a Red line!
The "Contract" I was initially given stated that there were 18 increment years??
To form a balanced view, remind us all please what the pay overtime threshold was at AN? And vs EK?
How much money did this company make this FY?
What was the profit target? and What was our profit share this FY?
How much more flying do we do now?
How much LESS pay do we get now?
How was this Company able to make so much money this FY?
How much annual Leave are we entitled to each year?
What is the maximum consecutive days we can take?
If we do take any leave, is there any credit for it??
Guys and Girls as has been already said, look VERY carefully before you leap. All that glitters is not Gold, and the grass is not always greener, just another shade of brown!
This USED to be a very good job, not any more!!
Take care and fly safe
Last edited by EK_Bus Driver; 5th Jun 2010 at 10:04.
EKBD,
Most happy to bow to your experience as to the long haul at AN. I find three night t/as to India at EK about as tiring as doing 3 night T/as to Greece while Charter flying in the UK. I don't know how often I have to say that I'm not saying the FTLs at EK are anything but knackering. They are just not any worse than many other regulations and better than some (Guys going to Turkish will soon find that out!!)
No idea how many increments in older contracts, I thought it was 10. Perhaps a longer serving guy could fill us in? Point being has anyone with a contractual right to an increment not been given it? Was the increment in yours a contractual obligation on the part of the company?
What has the OT threshold at AN got to do with anything? Are you considering leaving AN to come to EK or visa-versa- You'd find either difficult. People need to compare what is AVAILABLE to what they have- not what happened in a company that dissapeared a decade ago. In any case, it's the bottom line, not the means of calculation that counts.
After the biggest financial crisis in almost a century, we got a pay rise and a bonus, when many commentators said we'd get neither. Neither was huge, but was better than nothing. They have set a target for this year and are obliged to calculate next years bonus based on that.
We are currently doing an unsustainable amount of flying governed by an imperfect FTL scheme and not gaining any extra pay for it. We'd be getting paid much better if the Productivity threshold had not been shifted. I wish it hadn't, I'd certainly like the money!
But are you planning to leave? In overall terms is there a better option for you? If not, how can you know EK is not a BETTER option for a lot of guys in companies you DON'T want to go and work for?
Most happy to bow to your experience as to the long haul at AN. I find three night t/as to India at EK about as tiring as doing 3 night T/as to Greece while Charter flying in the UK. I don't know how often I have to say that I'm not saying the FTLs at EK are anything but knackering. They are just not any worse than many other regulations and better than some (Guys going to Turkish will soon find that out!!)
No idea how many increments in older contracts, I thought it was 10. Perhaps a longer serving guy could fill us in? Point being has anyone with a contractual right to an increment not been given it? Was the increment in yours a contractual obligation on the part of the company?
What has the OT threshold at AN got to do with anything? Are you considering leaving AN to come to EK or visa-versa- You'd find either difficult. People need to compare what is AVAILABLE to what they have- not what happened in a company that dissapeared a decade ago. In any case, it's the bottom line, not the means of calculation that counts.
After the biggest financial crisis in almost a century, we got a pay rise and a bonus, when many commentators said we'd get neither. Neither was huge, but was better than nothing. They have set a target for this year and are obliged to calculate next years bonus based on that.
We are currently doing an unsustainable amount of flying governed by an imperfect FTL scheme and not gaining any extra pay for it. We'd be getting paid much better if the Productivity threshold had not been shifted. I wish it hadn't, I'd certainly like the money!
But are you planning to leave? In overall terms is there a better option for you? If not, how can you know EK is not a BETTER option for a lot of guys in companies you DON'T want to go and work for?
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: united arab emirates
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
900 hrs a year is the target .they are pushing the regulator for 1000.You will work very hard. You will be treated like the aircrafts tire. The minute its worn out they will simply buy another tire.
A contract that is changeable with a simple " contract adjustment letter" without any negotiation or recourse.
so here it is written , Your contract will not be honoured.
the ability to get fired under the supervision of a training captain. So you better start your line training being a very sharp pencil indeed.
( F/O under training fired for a go around at Manchester). oh and even though you are terminated you will have to pay your training bond.
Forget about basings , you need to understand the way this place works.
the Sheikh wants everyone living here contributing to Dubai's local economy ( to rid their dependance on oil). eg kids in school , grocery shopping , buying a car etc etc.
Basings will never happen.
Gents and ladies , by all means give it a go . But make an informed decision. Speak to mates you know here and " listen" .
The recruitment machine is a one of the fanciest mouse traps ever designed. You will be lied to directly .
Consider condider consider.
.
A contract that is changeable with a simple " contract adjustment letter" without any negotiation or recourse.
so here it is written , Your contract will not be honoured.
the ability to get fired under the supervision of a training captain. So you better start your line training being a very sharp pencil indeed.
( F/O under training fired for a go around at Manchester). oh and even though you are terminated you will have to pay your training bond.
Forget about basings , you need to understand the way this place works.
the Sheikh wants everyone living here contributing to Dubai's local economy ( to rid their dependance on oil). eg kids in school , grocery shopping , buying a car etc etc.
Basings will never happen.
Gents and ladies , by all means give it a go . But make an informed decision. Speak to mates you know here and " listen" .
The recruitment machine is a one of the fanciest mouse traps ever designed. You will be lied to directly .
Consider condider consider.
.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dubai
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Education allowance is not a part of the contract but it IS in the Conditions Document. It was 100% of the cost up to a certain value when I joined. TCK issued a letter stating they thought it was important to "contribute" to your child's upbringing and the coverage was cut to 90%. They can do this because it's not in the contract. Only the bond is in the contract.
The housing deal is not a part of the contract but it IS in the Conditions Document. It was a three bedroom apartment for an FO without children. The reality many new-joiners have found AFTER they've sold up and moved to EK lately is it's two bedrooms for them and the wife and all their gear. They can do this because it's not in the contract. Only the bond is in the contract.
The utilities deal is not a part of the contract but it IS in the Conditions Document. It was previously covered 100% but not there's a cap. True, the cap surplus has not been charged as far as anyone knows but this is only due to the utterly SHAMBOLIC system DEWA runs. In their unseemly zeal for ripping people off, they have made it impossible to gain access to the bills. Even EK cannot tell who owes what and so we've not heard anymore about it. FOR NOW. When they sort it out, they will start charging the expats for their utilities; nothing could be more certain. Not ALL of them; only the ones who live in villas. Oh and not the management either. Just the pilots. They can do this because Utilities are not in the contract. Only the bond is in the contract.
The pay scales are not a part of the contract but were bundled to me with the Conditions Document. I signed that 10 page document but they did not. In fact they didn't care if I signed it. They can ignore my payscale schedule because it's not in the contract. Only the bond is in the contract.
Last year they did exactly that. No incremental increase despite their promise. Several years ago, we received payrises of around 10% (still well below the double-digit boom-town rate of local inflation) because they were desperate for pilots. Last year, when they were comfortable with pilot numbers, they erased those gains in one fell swoop by increasing the overtime threshold rate to the monthly maximum we can legally do over a 12 month period. They can do this because pay rates are not in the contract. Only the bond is in the contract.
Would you like more examples?
I suspect Mr. Wiz will say, "Well there you go. It wasn't in the contract so you cannot complain." True. I try not to complain here about non-existent breaches of contract but I do not like being LIED TO. But being LIED TO is something you must get used to at EK or pull your hair out in frustration. Conditions elsewhere might be similar but the LIES and the HATRED of pilots by management at EK eclipses anything I have ever seen or heard of anywhere else. Remember the Irish git? TCK? TCTC? TCAS's blatant LIES at last year's meetings? TCED's anti-pilot buffoonery?
MY CONTRACT HAS BEEN UPHELD. I SIGNED A CONTRACT BONDING MYSELF TO EK FOR THREE YEARS AND NOTHING MORE. IF I LEFT, I WOULD'VE BEEN FORCED TO PAY UP. THE BOND HAS EXPIRED. EK HONOURED MY "CONTRACT" BUT THEY HAVE CHANGED EVERYTHING ELSE OF IMPORTANCE WHICH I THOUGHT I HAD IN A CONTRACT BUT IN FACT DID NOT.
By the way, something else important to the employee - LEAVE. Also not in the contract and they've fiddled with that too. Forced allocations of a few days here, a few there. No longer any credit for leave so you will still fly as much of a full month of flying as they can squeeze into the remaining days - minus the DAYS OFF - so that the only difference to any other month is 5 of your 42 days leave has been frittered away and they are happy! Aussies will no doubt soon get tired of jetting back to Australia for a 5 days break. It's just too far.
You get driven to work in a limousine. Well its an Audi car. The reason they pick you up is not because you are valued; it's so that you can be delivered to work approximately 55min before your duty commences. This is necessary as the crew bus to the aircraft leaves the HQ 10min before the duty actually commences (at 1hr before ETD). And the briefing ends 10min before THAT (ETD-20min) so you need all that extra off duty time to do your required briefings, talk to the crew, etc. or the flight would be late. Nearly an hour of off-duty time spent working every time you go to work - Illegal? Unethical? It's SOP at EK.
The best part is, although you're technically off-duty for the first 40-55 min of the work day and therefore not accruing Duty Time, you can and will still be Drug and/or Alcohol Tested and prosecuted if you fail!
Oh the weather..... temps in the 40s all this week. Humidity getting to "extreme" now and will stay that way until end of October. It has to be felt to be believed.
I've heard they're canceling or have canceled the free flight to Dubai for the interview. They only offer that when they're desperate. Rest of the time they charge the prospective employee for the privilege of the interview. Better hurry.....
The housing deal is not a part of the contract but it IS in the Conditions Document. It was a three bedroom apartment for an FO without children. The reality many new-joiners have found AFTER they've sold up and moved to EK lately is it's two bedrooms for them and the wife and all their gear. They can do this because it's not in the contract. Only the bond is in the contract.
The utilities deal is not a part of the contract but it IS in the Conditions Document. It was previously covered 100% but not there's a cap. True, the cap surplus has not been charged as far as anyone knows but this is only due to the utterly SHAMBOLIC system DEWA runs. In their unseemly zeal for ripping people off, they have made it impossible to gain access to the bills. Even EK cannot tell who owes what and so we've not heard anymore about it. FOR NOW. When they sort it out, they will start charging the expats for their utilities; nothing could be more certain. Not ALL of them; only the ones who live in villas. Oh and not the management either. Just the pilots. They can do this because Utilities are not in the contract. Only the bond is in the contract.
The pay scales are not a part of the contract but were bundled to me with the Conditions Document. I signed that 10 page document but they did not. In fact they didn't care if I signed it. They can ignore my payscale schedule because it's not in the contract. Only the bond is in the contract.
Last year they did exactly that. No incremental increase despite their promise. Several years ago, we received payrises of around 10% (still well below the double-digit boom-town rate of local inflation) because they were desperate for pilots. Last year, when they were comfortable with pilot numbers, they erased those gains in one fell swoop by increasing the overtime threshold rate to the monthly maximum we can legally do over a 12 month period. They can do this because pay rates are not in the contract. Only the bond is in the contract.
Would you like more examples?
I suspect Mr. Wiz will say, "Well there you go. It wasn't in the contract so you cannot complain." True. I try not to complain here about non-existent breaches of contract but I do not like being LIED TO. But being LIED TO is something you must get used to at EK or pull your hair out in frustration. Conditions elsewhere might be similar but the LIES and the HATRED of pilots by management at EK eclipses anything I have ever seen or heard of anywhere else. Remember the Irish git? TCK? TCTC? TCAS's blatant LIES at last year's meetings? TCED's anti-pilot buffoonery?
MY CONTRACT HAS BEEN UPHELD. I SIGNED A CONTRACT BONDING MYSELF TO EK FOR THREE YEARS AND NOTHING MORE. IF I LEFT, I WOULD'VE BEEN FORCED TO PAY UP. THE BOND HAS EXPIRED. EK HONOURED MY "CONTRACT" BUT THEY HAVE CHANGED EVERYTHING ELSE OF IMPORTANCE WHICH I THOUGHT I HAD IN A CONTRACT BUT IN FACT DID NOT.
By the way, something else important to the employee - LEAVE. Also not in the contract and they've fiddled with that too. Forced allocations of a few days here, a few there. No longer any credit for leave so you will still fly as much of a full month of flying as they can squeeze into the remaining days - minus the DAYS OFF - so that the only difference to any other month is 5 of your 42 days leave has been frittered away and they are happy! Aussies will no doubt soon get tired of jetting back to Australia for a 5 days break. It's just too far.
You get driven to work in a limousine. Well its an Audi car. The reason they pick you up is not because you are valued; it's so that you can be delivered to work approximately 55min before your duty commences. This is necessary as the crew bus to the aircraft leaves the HQ 10min before the duty actually commences (at 1hr before ETD). And the briefing ends 10min before THAT (ETD-20min) so you need all that extra off duty time to do your required briefings, talk to the crew, etc. or the flight would be late. Nearly an hour of off-duty time spent working every time you go to work - Illegal? Unethical? It's SOP at EK.
The best part is, although you're technically off-duty for the first 40-55 min of the work day and therefore not accruing Duty Time, you can and will still be Drug and/or Alcohol Tested and prosecuted if you fail!
Oh the weather..... temps in the 40s all this week. Humidity getting to "extreme" now and will stay that way until end of October. It has to be felt to be believed.
I've heard they're canceling or have canceled the free flight to Dubai for the interview. They only offer that when they're desperate. Rest of the time they charge the prospective employee for the privilege of the interview. Better hurry.....
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi ProPete...
Good post, I sort of got the point...
A few years ago, when I was flying for Air Atlanta, I could have sworn you were talking about them!!
But at least we had proper 3 man crews in the 747s then....
Cheers...FD...
Good post, I sort of got the point...
A few years ago, when I was flying for Air Atlanta, I could have sworn you were talking about them!!
But at least we had proper 3 man crews in the 747s then....
Cheers...FD...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sydney
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have also heard that Emirates will be in Oz later this year looking for engineers.
No doubt QF and AMSA have some young engineers with A380 experience, of course Emirates would be happy to take them to the Sandpit for whalejet maintenance. Why train when you can pilfer.
No doubt QF and AMSA have some young engineers with A380 experience, of course Emirates would be happy to take them to the Sandpit for whalejet maintenance. Why train when you can pilfer.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: united arab emirates
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pro Pete , sorry but I dont know when you got your agreement/contract.
Mine says under the title Response on pg 9 " This contract of employment" bla bla
The training bond is mentioned on pg 7 . This is on the same contract
although another agreement was also draughted to explain more details of the training bomd.
So all I see is the word contract on the document that I signed and they have reneged on a few paragraphs in the said contract . Fact.
Its possible they changed this to use the word agreement on later documents ( new hires) but not on mine. Even if this is the case it just validates my origonal point. That you join here with absouloutely nothing to go by. What is on offer is all heresay. They may as well promise you a command in 6 months , basings anywhere in the world and a rolls royce to transport you to work. Any agreement /contract/ piece of paper is worth squat. Any verbal statement by the recruitment team is equally as worthless.
Mine says under the title Response on pg 9 " This contract of employment" bla bla
The training bond is mentioned on pg 7 . This is on the same contract
although another agreement was also draughted to explain more details of the training bomd.
So all I see is the word contract on the document that I signed and they have reneged on a few paragraphs in the said contract . Fact.
Its possible they changed this to use the word agreement on later documents ( new hires) but not on mine. Even if this is the case it just validates my origonal point. That you join here with absouloutely nothing to go by. What is on offer is all heresay. They may as well promise you a command in 6 months , basings anywhere in the world and a rolls royce to transport you to work. Any agreement /contract/ piece of paper is worth squat. Any verbal statement by the recruitment team is equally as worthless.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Far East of Mexico
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And in the said Rolls Royce, you will still need to wind the window down to breathe some fresh air in the middle of 50 deg summer heat, because your sub-continental driver has been living, eating, sleeping and farting in it for his 12 hour shift, in unwashed clothes due to his accomodation issues!
Even the smell of brand new leather can fail to cover a the reality of life as an expat!
Even the smell of brand new leather can fail to cover a the reality of life as an expat!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: boat
Age: 57
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a laugh, seriously, no unions in DXB but hey there are unions in Aus right? Just ask some of the unfortunate FO's how they were approached about their career options when it came to the probable redundancies fiasco and how they were subsequently treated.
Or the sister tripler fellows that interviewed recently and didn't get the nod, and not because of inability but rather being cheaper and more useful to the company in their current role.
They are happy recruit from the street because it costs them nothing as they can make money from eager ''jet'' wishing people but give internal applicants no means of a career progression.
Gunslapper, if you think that you have made an uninformed decision once by joining EK,please do learn from it, especially when suggesting a role swap.
If you want to be served by an absent minded 18 yearold and be told '' 2 dollars for a can of coke'' then please do join the ''get what you want'' fallacy.
Or the sister tripler fellows that interviewed recently and didn't get the nod, and not because of inability but rather being cheaper and more useful to the company in their current role.
They are happy recruit from the street because it costs them nothing as they can make money from eager ''jet'' wishing people but give internal applicants no means of a career progression.
Gunslapper, if you think that you have made an uninformed decision once by joining EK,please do learn from it, especially when suggesting a role swap.
If you want to be served by an absent minded 18 yearold and be told '' 2 dollars for a can of coke'' then please do join the ''get what you want'' fallacy.
Last edited by abc1; 6th Jun 2010 at 11:50.