Jetstar Hiring.... Cadets?!?!
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The only reason jonny should want to work for an airline is for the money and/ or lifestyle, not because he gets a little short term bulge over flying a jet. Try to think beyond tomorrow.
This statement or lack there of, sums up Gen Y. The amount of friends I have who are steep in debt. I have one 24yo friend earning over $250,000pa who has more debt than I and less disposable income. I have another friend earning less than me who is crying about interest rates because they went up .25% and now he might have to sell his brand new BMW. Where is the forethought?
This thread is just going around in circles, is there any point to it now?
Because people are not willing to accept the truth and keep struggling to justify the course.
There are some very arrogant people here who are unable to see anything from anyone else's perspective.
Unless you are walking in someone's shoes how dare you criticize the choices other people make for their OWN lives.
The only arrogant people here are the ones who have naught experience and seem to know everything about the industry. What the hell do you think we've been doing for the last 10 years? Twiddling our thumbs getting a cushy ride? We've been there done that, that’s how we can criticize.
Maybe those that attack schemes like this and the pilots that choose to do them, could give some CONSTRUCTIVE advice and things that pilots could do to work TOGETHER rather than just attacking people.
Turning people away from the schemes is constructive advice. It will give people the opportunity to broaden their horizons. There has not been a single serious question by the proponents of these courses as to reasonable alternatives. Like I said, all those I've mentored have jobs and I'm sure 90% of the other guys would have young protégés who have also found work. Perhaps if these lost young pilots spent more time in the thick of aviation instead turning to PPRuNe they would find people willing to impart crucial advice.
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ecovictim,
"Because people are not willing to accept the truth"
Your truth is not a universal truth!
Do you understand this concept?
Everyone has different points of view.
Until you get this, just keep banging your head
ps I have 7 years in GA, is that enough experience?
"Because people are not willing to accept the truth"
Your truth is not a universal truth!
Do you understand this concept?
Everyone has different points of view.
Until you get this, just keep banging your head
ps I have 7 years in GA, is that enough experience?
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If you cant see where this scheme is leading then no amount of experience will be enough.
Mine is not a point of view, I'm simple stating the facts. Jetstar openly admit that this cadet scheme is modelled on the UK system and this is the way they want the industry to head. Now look at the UK and tell me what I've said is anything but truthful, however bleak. You only have to open your eyes to see what is happening.
Like I've said, I was lined up for one of these schemes in the UK. I still wore rose coloured glasses back then. I thought it was a great opportunity to get my foot in the door, build up a bit of jet time and come back to Australia. However like any half intelligent person, I took the time to read into the fine print, do some research and finally recognised the whole thing as a scam. What more experience do I need? To have gone through it and be bankrupt? There are plenty of other people out there in that situation.
Mine is not a point of view, I'm simple stating the facts. Jetstar openly admit that this cadet scheme is modelled on the UK system and this is the way they want the industry to head. Now look at the UK and tell me what I've said is anything but truthful, however bleak. You only have to open your eyes to see what is happening.
Like I've said, I was lined up for one of these schemes in the UK. I still wore rose coloured glasses back then. I thought it was a great opportunity to get my foot in the door, build up a bit of jet time and come back to Australia. However like any half intelligent person, I took the time to read into the fine print, do some research and finally recognised the whole thing as a scam. What more experience do I need? To have gone through it and be bankrupt? There are plenty of other people out there in that situation.
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bogdan posted this about GA in 2007
... so what if people want to protect their ever diminishing t & c's and get offended by (or are trying to speak some sense, truth, to) those willing to prostitute themselves and the profession in order for what? fly a twin? fly a jet? stroke the ego? There's something called character and integrity and unfortunately there is a major lack of this in aviation, from personal experience. People willing to clamber over the top of anyone and will do anything to get "those hours", GA bosses and airline management know this. When the gloss wears off and it will, the main driving force will be lifestyle and/or $$$, but it'll be too late because even that is forfeited and guess what? pilots are left with no bargaining power and they ultimately become a serf, a slave (bound/bonded) to that company because they're paid in some instances well below the average standard.
... could this include yourself?
For your information I know a number of professional pilots who walked (out of jobs as well as the industry) because they weren't willing to bend the rules and stood up for what was right.
The problem is that GA is so f#@ked up pilots want out. Flying pieces of junk around the country for scums for **** money, you'll just about do anything to get out. Rex and the like are clearly only marginally better.
Good on all you pilots who refuse to pay. This is the perfect time for pilots to stick together and refuse. If every pilot refused, they would be forced to pay for the training, like they bloody well should.
DON'T PAY !!!
Good on all you pilots who refuse to pay. This is the perfect time for pilots to stick together and refuse. If every pilot refused, they would be forced to pay for the training, like they bloody well should.
DON'T PAY !!!
There are some very arrogant people here who are unable to see anything from anyone else's perspective.
For your information I know a number of professional pilots who walked (out of jobs as well as the industry) because they weren't willing to bend the rules and stood up for what was right.
Last edited by Bo777; 13th Jun 2010 at 09:22.
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These cadet scheme's just sound like a form of wage control, the LCC's do not like the award and so introduce these schemes to get around it.
Once the LCC's get a foothold the rest of the industry suffers.
As LCC's are out to save money all the other perks will go too, such as staff travel etc.
Once the LCC's get a foothold the rest of the industry suffers.
As LCC's are out to save money all the other perks will go too, such as staff travel etc.
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Bo777,
I totally agree with what you said (except suggesting maybe I am arrogant
).
I understand why pilots are against these schemes, but I also understand why some pilots for all sorts of reasons choose to go down this path. (I also understand why pilots pay for endorsements, even thought I don't think pilots should pay)
But what is the solution? Attacking pilots for the their choices isn't the answer, it just creates more division.
Unfortunately, I really don't know what the bloody answer is.
I totally agree with what you said (except suggesting maybe I am arrogant
).I understand why pilots are against these schemes, but I also understand why some pilots for all sorts of reasons choose to go down this path. (I also understand why pilots pay for endorsements, even thought I don't think pilots should pay)
But what is the solution? Attacking pilots for the their choices isn't the answer, it just creates more division.
Unfortunately, I really don't know what the bloody answer is.
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There's no quick fix.
Having less wannaby pilots is the answer. It is very important that details of T&C's are well known by the wannabies very early (before they get a CPL.)
Aviation is like being a movie actor. Lots go to Hollywood and many end up "prostituting" themselves and working for nothing, or very little.
A few get fame and fortune. Only a few.
Just like Australian aciation.
Aviation is like being a movie actor. Lots go to Hollywood and many end up "prostituting" themselves and working for nothing, or very little.
A few get fame and fortune. Only a few.
Just like Australian aciation.
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"Maybe those that attack schemes like this and the pilots that choose to do them, could give some CONSTRUCTIVE advice and things that pilots could do to work TOGETHER rather than just attacking people."
Ok..... here's some constructive advice...
Get to the end of the line you queue jumping simpletons!!!!
Want some more advice sonny???!!!
Ok..... here's some constructive advice...
Get to the end of the line you queue jumping simpletons!!!!
Want some more advice sonny???!!!
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As someone who would like to stay far far away from the bright shiny jets I am really interested in how this will affect GA.
If those that were willing to fly on the cheap go to these cadetships then hopefully the GA T&C's will improve.
Or is that naive?
If those that were willing to fly on the cheap go to these cadetships then hopefully the GA T&C's will improve.
Or is that naive?
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l have just spent all afternoon reading this thread (I know A life woud be nice) I still can't get over how much ctc wan't to charge for the living costs $21000.
At the beginning I was sitting on the fence my oppinion was yes go for the cadetships if you don't somone else will, but having read various posts especially those of BreakfastBurrito I have come full circle and now come to the conclusion BEWARE all those contemplating this path.
I know this will fall on deaf ears but guys wake up and think long and hard about signing on the dotted line. It's a bit like getting the name of your girlfriend tattoed on your chest it might seem like a good idea at the start but it will come back to bite you on the arse latter on.
At the beginning I was sitting on the fence my oppinion was yes go for the cadetships if you don't somone else will, but having read various posts especially those of BreakfastBurrito I have come full circle and now come to the conclusion BEWARE all those contemplating this path.
I know this will fall on deaf ears but guys wake up and think long and hard about signing on the dotted line. It's a bit like getting the name of your girlfriend tattoed on your chest it might seem like a good idea at the start but it will come back to bite you on the arse latter on.
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Agreed.
-We should direct the attention of this post towards the people who have been getting accepted into this course because I know im interested to hear what they have to say and what Jetstar have told them to expect
-We should direct the attention of this post towards the people who have been getting accepted into this course because I know im interested to hear what they have to say and what Jetstar have told them to expect
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I know this will fall on deaf ears but guys wake up and think long and hard about signing on the dotted line. It's a bit like getting the name of your girlfriend tattoed on your chest it might seem like a good idea at the start but it will come back to bite you on the arse latter on.
Well in this case it would be Jetstar tattoed on your a***
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soloflyer, I am just glad that I can "save" at least one from the tyranny that is the j* cadet scheme. Unfortunately scheme such as this have found a way to commercialise the dream of flying. It is now a financial commodity, with a hefty price.
Please make no mistake, there are no shortcuts in aviation. You have can rapid progression, you can have good T&C's, but, (with a few exceptional) you can't have both. It has been this way for a long time, in fact since the dawn of aviation.
QF had a cadet scheme in the late 60's, some of those cadets weren't employed until the early 80's, cadets in the early 90's had a few years out of the industry. Most late 90's cadets had two years in GA. Many who took the GA route struggled financially for years before getting a good job.
Almost every ex-military guy has had a good mate killed, one remarked that he had been to over 30 funerals for pilots killed on service.
This is a brutal industry. This is a 24/7/365 business. You can expect to spend 40% of your weekends at work, miss the celebrations of life with your friends & family. It is disorderly shift work where the flight & duty times are not based on the science of sleep, rather what is commercially advantageous for the operator.
These things may not seem important to you now, but there will be a time in your life that they will. There will be a time when you have responsibilities, financial commitments, seek to have a roof over your families head & some financial security. I suspect that many who choose to ignore the downsides to this industry will wake up, aged 40 & wonder where it all went wrong. Sure they might be in the left hand seat of a jet, but at a huge cost to the things that really matter in life. Sitting in a jet wears off after a period of time, & I'm yet to meet a professional pilot who violates this rule.
Airlines simply can't cut fuel, maintenance & aircraft costs, so even though a pilots wage is small in the scheme of the overall cost, it is something that can be attacked. Airline managers can now see pilot training simultaneously as a revenue stream & a way to lower their wage cost even further (JFO's).
I look around the world at trends elsewhere, to see where things are headed, in the US you have pilots on food stamps, in the UK you have CTC bankrupting cadets. Pilots are so easy to exploit simply because they have a large training debt.
If you really want to get into this industry, go out to the mines, earn the big dollars on a FIFO contract. Spend the time back in the capital cities to do your theory courses (CPL & ATPL). You will experience several things that are similar to aviation, shift work & lots of time on you own away from friends & family. Use this time to study, learn, save. Once you the money in the bank, you will then know yourself & know whether this is the industry for you, If you decide it is go for it. If not, you will have a deposit for a house & be much wiser, good luck with whatever else you choose.
Don't get into this industry on credit, you will forever have to pay the piper. Once you sign on the dotted line, there is no way back.
Don't buy the illusion, there are no shortcuts in aviation.
Please make no mistake, there are no shortcuts in aviation. You have can rapid progression, you can have good T&C's, but, (with a few exceptional) you can't have both. It has been this way for a long time, in fact since the dawn of aviation.
QF had a cadet scheme in the late 60's, some of those cadets weren't employed until the early 80's, cadets in the early 90's had a few years out of the industry. Most late 90's cadets had two years in GA. Many who took the GA route struggled financially for years before getting a good job.
Almost every ex-military guy has had a good mate killed, one remarked that he had been to over 30 funerals for pilots killed on service.
This is a brutal industry. This is a 24/7/365 business. You can expect to spend 40% of your weekends at work, miss the celebrations of life with your friends & family. It is disorderly shift work where the flight & duty times are not based on the science of sleep, rather what is commercially advantageous for the operator.
These things may not seem important to you now, but there will be a time in your life that they will. There will be a time when you have responsibilities, financial commitments, seek to have a roof over your families head & some financial security. I suspect that many who choose to ignore the downsides to this industry will wake up, aged 40 & wonder where it all went wrong. Sure they might be in the left hand seat of a jet, but at a huge cost to the things that really matter in life. Sitting in a jet wears off after a period of time, & I'm yet to meet a professional pilot who violates this rule.
Airlines simply can't cut fuel, maintenance & aircraft costs, so even though a pilots wage is small in the scheme of the overall cost, it is something that can be attacked. Airline managers can now see pilot training simultaneously as a revenue stream & a way to lower their wage cost even further (JFO's).
I look around the world at trends elsewhere, to see where things are headed, in the US you have pilots on food stamps, in the UK you have CTC bankrupting cadets. Pilots are so easy to exploit simply because they have a large training debt.
If you really want to get into this industry, go out to the mines, earn the big dollars on a FIFO contract. Spend the time back in the capital cities to do your theory courses (CPL & ATPL). You will experience several things that are similar to aviation, shift work & lots of time on you own away from friends & family. Use this time to study, learn, save. Once you the money in the bank, you will then know yourself & know whether this is the industry for you, If you decide it is go for it. If not, you will have a deposit for a house & be much wiser, good luck with whatever else you choose.
Don't get into this industry on credit, you will forever have to pay the piper. Once you sign on the dotted line, there is no way back.
Don't buy the illusion, there are no shortcuts in aviation.
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BB can definitley see you point i have been in GA now for several years have done the up north thing and various other things as I said I am just sitting on the fence as a bystander with an intrest. I have no intentions heading for the airlines but do make a comfortable living from flying bugsmashers (more than the airlines pay).
I don't have a problem with the concept of cadets but these particula ones on offer need to be looked at hard. It not only hurts the t and c but also upsets the flow of blokes and blokeets coming throught the GA ranks if noone moves up the ladder into the kero burners.
I don't have a problem with the concept of cadets but these particula ones on offer need to be looked at hard. It not only hurts the t and c but also upsets the flow of blokes and blokeets coming throught the GA ranks if noone moves up the ladder into the kero burners.
Have to agree with Burrito, great post.
Whats that old saying..."if it sounds too good to be true it probably is!"
Talk to the J* guys and girls first before you consider this. Ask yourself if it is worth going into debt on a bond, working on reduced wages for a period of time, while being flogged out on the line. Although GA was a great experience, its easy why people want to take the easy option to get onto a "shiny jet". I dont blame them at all. But i guess u get wiser with age.
Just remember that J* being the company that it is, isn't starting a cadet scheme for the benefit of young pilots to further their career. They are only doing this to help their bottom line.
Who do you think will be the winner from this scheme? i will give you a clue. It isnt current J* pilots or even the cadets it recruits.
Whats that old saying..."if it sounds too good to be true it probably is!"
Talk to the J* guys and girls first before you consider this. Ask yourself if it is worth going into debt on a bond, working on reduced wages for a period of time, while being flogged out on the line. Although GA was a great experience, its easy why people want to take the easy option to get onto a "shiny jet". I dont blame them at all. But i guess u get wiser with age.
Just remember that J* being the company that it is, isn't starting a cadet scheme for the benefit of young pilots to further their career. They are only doing this to help their bottom line.
Who do you think will be the winner from this scheme? i will give you a clue. It isnt current J* pilots or even the cadets it recruits.