Jetstar Hiring.... Cadets?!?!
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Victoria
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What are the alternatives?
I finished my flying training in 2008 and have had absolutely zero luck on finding an entry level job since then. Global downturn is probably the reason for this. I did what everyone suggested, got my MECIR and "went up north". 6 months later no job and 3k poorer. The guys who I met who had been hired were all under 22 except one. I came across many mid to late 20's guys and girls and some over thirties. It became very obvious that no one was hiring anyone old enough to stand up for themselves when push came to shove. Bullying and practices which were considered to be not professional seemed more the norm. Also, the amount of wannabees looking for work was astounding.
GA, in my opinion seem just as bad as jetstar. Only take the young ones so you can bleed them and push them around (They won't complain,they want the hours) One company said to me that older pilots are pains in the a*** because they ask to many questions. I'm in my thirties and they said this to my face!
Dont worry, I wouldn't touch the Jetstar Cadetship with a 10 foot pole but the Qlink cadetship seems almost ok. 18k up front but at least you don't pay for your endo and you get 75% of your 18k back eventually. I know I wont get upgraded and wont have an ATPL but at Qlink it doesn't affect your pay. I wont be getting hired unless there is a severe shortage of pilots across the board in the near future. All the airlines know this and are playing on it.
I cant sit around for ever!
Anyone got a better idea?
GA, in my opinion seem just as bad as jetstar. Only take the young ones so you can bleed them and push them around (They won't complain,they want the hours) One company said to me that older pilots are pains in the a*** because they ask to many questions. I'm in my thirties and they said this to my face!
Dont worry, I wouldn't touch the Jetstar Cadetship with a 10 foot pole but the Qlink cadetship seems almost ok. 18k up front but at least you don't pay for your endo and you get 75% of your 18k back eventually. I know I wont get upgraded and wont have an ATPL but at Qlink it doesn't affect your pay. I wont be getting hired unless there is a severe shortage of pilots across the board in the near future. All the airlines know this and are playing on it.
I cant sit around for ever!
Anyone got a better idea?
The last two years have been horrible for the entry level stuff as guys have been hanging around.
There is a little movement in the topend of town which means those guys now with thousands of hours of multi command can move into the turboprop jobs and the single drivers can step up. With the uncertainty in the airline hiring right now there may be little movement again for a while so get on a piston twin or turbine asap else you will be a **** kicker for a few years!
Funny thing is now the multi engine piston guys have more multi engine command time than what a lot of turbine guys have, so the experience in the middle ranks is quite high which means quick commands for them once they get on a turbine.
There is a little movement in the topend of town which means those guys now with thousands of hours of multi command can move into the turboprop jobs and the single drivers can step up. With the uncertainty in the airline hiring right now there may be little movement again for a while so get on a piston twin or turbine asap else you will be a **** kicker for a few years!
Funny thing is now the multi engine piston guys have more multi engine command time than what a lot of turbine guys have, so the experience in the middle ranks is quite high which means quick commands for them once they get on a turbine.
You know some of the arguements presented here may prove academic. REX are soon to implement a restriction on what graduating cadets are allowed to do. No night landings and restrictions on x-wind landings to name but two.
The first batch of REX cadets were handpicked from nearly a thousand applicants. All had previous flying experience (mostly ppl), and were of a high academic standard. Even so, they found the learning curve extremely high, and it is a credit to them the progress that they eventually made. These guys are now becoming the exception rather than the rule!
Subsequent cadets are fairing a little differently. They're still motivated, intelligent young men and women, but not quite the "superstars" that the first bunch were. Many have tested the system to an elasticity that would have been deemed impossible for past F/O candidates. It's amazing just how much slack management are willing to cut when contractual obligations and pride are on the line! Some Cadets have had up to half a dozen checks, and still aren't ready to join the line! They're just regular people however, but unfortunately more and more are finding themselves out of their depth. The type I suspect, that may also make up many of the Jetstar candidates.
It's one thing to be accepted into program with no previous exerience, it's another to graduate. Just ask the RAAF.
The first batch of REX cadets were handpicked from nearly a thousand applicants. All had previous flying experience (mostly ppl), and were of a high academic standard. Even so, they found the learning curve extremely high, and it is a credit to them the progress that they eventually made. These guys are now becoming the exception rather than the rule!
Subsequent cadets are fairing a little differently. They're still motivated, intelligent young men and women, but not quite the "superstars" that the first bunch were. Many have tested the system to an elasticity that would have been deemed impossible for past F/O candidates. It's amazing just how much slack management are willing to cut when contractual obligations and pride are on the line! Some Cadets have had up to half a dozen checks, and still aren't ready to join the line! They're just regular people however, but unfortunately more and more are finding themselves out of their depth. The type I suspect, that may also make up many of the Jetstar candidates.
It's one thing to be accepted into program with no previous exerience, it's another to graduate. Just ask the RAAF.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Za farzer land
Age: 53
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh look, SO, cruise FO, however you would like to label them they are cadets who have been hand picked through the toughest of application processes then trained at full cost of the "legacy" carrier and then put into a cockpit environment with 3 to 4 crew, they are then paid a salary that is expected for a professional pilot who contributes to the companys bottom line profit. This doesn't sound anything like a Jetstar cadet.
Jetstar are running this course for profit. End of story. Jetstar can select from any one of the hundreds of pilots out there in GA. Why won't they? Because there is no money in it for them.
AH and his mates can rabit on til the cows come home about how great jetstar is and how positive all the screwing over of pilots T&C's is going to be and how taking on cadets instead of hard working EXPERIENCED GA pilots that have been waiting for their lucky break will be but at the end of the day it's all just positive propaganda from the jetstar spin machine to try to paint a positive light.
There is an endless pool of good operators in GA. Why not take them??? Why because is no money in it. Enough said
Jetstar are running this course for profit. End of story. Jetstar can select from any one of the hundreds of pilots out there in GA. Why won't they? Because there is no money in it for them.
AH and his mates can rabit on til the cows come home about how great jetstar is and how positive all the screwing over of pilots T&C's is going to be and how taking on cadets instead of hard working EXPERIENCED GA pilots that have been waiting for their lucky break will be but at the end of the day it's all just positive propaganda from the jetstar spin machine to try to paint a positive light.
There is an endless pool of good operators in GA. Why not take them??? Why because is no money in it. Enough said
Noticed that Singapore Airlines are also advertising for Cadets.
However, it's all expenses(course, accomm, food) paid , with a monthly living allowance.
Catch is .... you have to be a Singaporean or have PR status.
However, it's all expenses(course, accomm, food) paid , with a monthly living allowance.
Catch is .... you have to be a Singaporean or have PR status.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So 45K after the 10K a year loan repayment sounds alot less encouraging.
I don't care about the appeal of "a big shiny jet" anyone who accepts that kind of wage for that kind of responsibility should be ashamed of themselves and shunned by everyone else (mind you it prob wouldn't bother them as they obviously have no self respect anyway).
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cadets into the future
I posted in August last year in a related forum in relation to command upgrades for pilots coming up the cadet style way.
I referred to CASA's own website in the area labelled 'Under development' and quote the relevant section relating to so called larger aeroplanes
CASR Part 121 – Passenger Transport Services and Cargo Operations - Larger Aeroplanes
"Larger aeroplanes" in Part 121 means an aeroplane:
• fitted with more than 9 passenger seats in its approved configuration, or
• with a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of more than 8640 kg.
Key Proposals
Restrictions to be placed on the crewing together of inexperienced pilots;
Single standard to be introduced for Passenger Transport Services regardless of whether charter or RPT operations are involved;"
It seems clear looking back and with the advent of the MPL that CASA foresaw the difficulty airlines will face with 200 hr cadets in the RHS of Larger Aeroplane. The detail in relation to crewing together of inexperienced pilots remains to be seen.
Are there any Jetstar pilots out there who can enlighten us on what the existing pool of pilots think ? Were you consulted ?
I referred to CASA's own website in the area labelled 'Under development' and quote the relevant section relating to so called larger aeroplanes
CASR Part 121 – Passenger Transport Services and Cargo Operations - Larger Aeroplanes
"Larger aeroplanes" in Part 121 means an aeroplane:
• fitted with more than 9 passenger seats in its approved configuration, or
• with a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of more than 8640 kg.
Key Proposals
Restrictions to be placed on the crewing together of inexperienced pilots;
Single standard to be introduced for Passenger Transport Services regardless of whether charter or RPT operations are involved;"
It seems clear looking back and with the advent of the MPL that CASA foresaw the difficulty airlines will face with 200 hr cadets in the RHS of Larger Aeroplane. The detail in relation to crewing together of inexperienced pilots remains to be seen.
Are there any Jetstar pilots out there who can enlighten us on what the existing pool of pilots think ? Were you consulted ?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The Land Downunder
Posts: 765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fruet,
You are missing the point here, I am far from a Jetstar supporter, my job with them is simply a means to an end. What I am saying is that having experienced similar cadet program's at my previous two airlines they can be beneficial for both the company and the prospective cadets. Most airlines will only carry out such programmes if it helps with the bottom line. At British Airways the cadet or SEP (sponsored entry pilot) gets ZERO financial help from the airline, they have to pay for thier entire course upfront themselves and pass it before even being considered for entry into the airline. If they are then selected they get to work for BA on the reduced wage of £27,000 per year instead of the Direct Entry rate of £48,000. People do it because it is a foot in the door of an airline that would otherwise take years to be considered for. It works for the airline as they have a source of 'cheaper' bonded labour and it works for the cadet because they can be into an established airline at the age of 20 instead of pushing 30. Jetstar will be a similar deal for both sides. For those of you who are worried this is the end of recruitment from GA that is simply not the case. I heard from the horses mouth that it is both impossible and impractical to source all new recruitment through cadets, mainly for the fact they don't want 'all' their pilots having the same hours and experience, they still want GA drivers to come through as they will be the ones that will take commands when required 'due' to their experience.
You are missing the point here, I am far from a Jetstar supporter, my job with them is simply a means to an end. What I am saying is that having experienced similar cadet program's at my previous two airlines they can be beneficial for both the company and the prospective cadets. Most airlines will only carry out such programmes if it helps with the bottom line. At British Airways the cadet or SEP (sponsored entry pilot) gets ZERO financial help from the airline, they have to pay for thier entire course upfront themselves and pass it before even being considered for entry into the airline. If they are then selected they get to work for BA on the reduced wage of £27,000 per year instead of the Direct Entry rate of £48,000. People do it because it is a foot in the door of an airline that would otherwise take years to be considered for. It works for the airline as they have a source of 'cheaper' bonded labour and it works for the cadet because they can be into an established airline at the age of 20 instead of pushing 30. Jetstar will be a similar deal for both sides. For those of you who are worried this is the end of recruitment from GA that is simply not the case. I heard from the horses mouth that it is both impossible and impractical to source all new recruitment through cadets, mainly for the fact they don't want 'all' their pilots having the same hours and experience, they still want GA drivers to come through as they will be the ones that will take commands when required 'due' to their experience.
Oh look, SO, cruise FO, however you would like to label them they are cadets who have been hand picked through the toughest of application processes then trained at full cost of the "legacy" carrier and then put into a cockpit environment with 3 to 4 crew
And what makes you think Jetstar wouldn't have a tough application process with an estimated 20,000 potential applicants?
How do they achieve 250 hours PIC?
ICUS, incoming....
ICUS, incoming....
Air Transport Pilot (Aeroplane) Licence
Applicants must:
( I have edited the basics out)
have a total of 1500 hours flight time:
including at least 750 hours which must include any of the following:
at least 250 hours of flight time as pilot in command;
at least 500 hours of flight time as pilot acting in command under supervision (ICUS);
at least 250 hours flight time, consisting of at least 70 hours as pilot in command and the balance as ICUS; and
200 hours cross country; and
75 hours instrument flight time; and
100 hours at night as pilot in command or as co-pilot.
The balance of the 1500 hours of flight time must consist of any 1 of the following:
not more than 750 hours flight time as pilot of a registered aeroplane, or a recognised aeroplane
not more than 750 hours of recognised flight time as a pilot of:
blah blah blah
Applicants must:
( I have edited the basics out)
have a total of 1500 hours flight time:
including at least 750 hours which must include any of the following:
at least 250 hours of flight time as pilot in command;
at least 500 hours of flight time as pilot acting in command under supervision (ICUS);
at least 250 hours flight time, consisting of at least 70 hours as pilot in command and the balance as ICUS; and
200 hours cross country; and
75 hours instrument flight time; and
100 hours at night as pilot in command or as co-pilot.
The balance of the 1500 hours of flight time must consist of any 1 of the following:
not more than 750 hours flight time as pilot of a registered aeroplane, or a recognised aeroplane
not more than 750 hours of recognised flight time as a pilot of:
blah blah blah
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Daghdaghistan
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Campbell Live on TV3 in Nooo Zealand are doing a article on the great Jet* cadet program on Wednesday night, 1900 NZ time..
Home - Campbell Live - TV Shows - 3 News
Hopefully after 1900 NZST, all you fullas in Oz might be able to watch the article on the website after the live broadcast...
Home - Campbell Live - TV Shows - 3 News
Hopefully after 1900 NZST, all you fullas in Oz might be able to watch the article on the website after the live broadcast...
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Icarus2001:
Originally Posted by CAR
5.172 (2) (a) at least 250 hours of flight time as pilot in command;and
....
5.173 (2) For the purposes of paragraph 5.172 (2) (a), the flight time as pilot in command may include up to 150 hours as pilot acting in command under supervision
....
5.173 (2) For the purposes of paragraph 5.172 (2) (a), the flight time as pilot in command may include up to 150 hours as pilot acting in command under supervision
Whispering "T" Jet
Fruet Mich says:
Mich, put a sock in your big mouth for a moment and listen up!
I was a fully paid up member of the AFAP during my flying career and worked closely with Lawrie Cox and our Pilot Group Committee to get a decent EBA for our freighter pilots and flight engineers. It took a lot of hard work at the negotiating table and some give and take but it turned out OK in the end.
You have made some sweeping statements about how to stop this rot in the airline industry but have not come up with ONE solution.
So get off your ass, recruit a Committee and start work!!!!!!!
Obviously nothing will be done here because of guys like yourself and 3 holer that won't stand up and protect an industry that's being flushed down the toilet........................
I was a fully paid up member of the AFAP during my flying career and worked closely with Lawrie Cox and our Pilot Group Committee to get a decent EBA for our freighter pilots and flight engineers. It took a lot of hard work at the negotiating table and some give and take but it turned out OK in the end.
You have made some sweeping statements about how to stop this rot in the airline industry but have not come up with ONE solution.
So get off your ass, recruit a Committee and start work!!!!!!!
Nunc est bibendum
And what makes you think Jetstar wouldn't have a tough application process with an estimated 20,000 potential applicants?
I'm with Keg...
Especially in light of how JQ management touted their 70% annual expansion in pax numbers. No cred w.r.t. reality there so why change the gold (or should I say orange) standard in SPIN now? 
Nunc est bibendum
Just to complete the loop from Jetsbest comments, I expect that sort of hyperbole from J* these days. That it gets swallowed and re-spouted by people who really should know better (like line pilots, journo's, etc) is the bit I really don't get. 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Expansion of Jetstar international based in SIN will have 3 A330s flying to Melbourne and Auckland from November
Perhaps VH-BIC will make a comeback?
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Smog Central
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is very interesting. I wonder what it will do for the conditions for GA pilots? Why would you spend 5 years in GA busting your ass off for minimal pay + conditions when you can go straight on to a jet? (providing you have a **** load of cash)
Interesting times ahead, but it was amusing John Campbell saying you can do it for free.......AUD154,456 nice one bud
Interesting times ahead, but it was amusing John Campbell saying you can do it for free.......AUD154,456
nice one bud