Jetstar Hiring.... Cadets?!?!
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F/O Minimum Wage
Just after some clarification, I'm sure someone more involved in the industry then me can help out. I've read numerous times on this thread that the starting wage for a First Officer is approx $55k. Reading the Air Pilots Award 2010 document just now, under schedule B.1.2 "Larger aircraft classifications and minimum salaries", going by the entry "Narrow body aircraft", the minimum wage for a F/O is $70,045 as per that table.
After all the training is done, type rating received, position obtained etc, wouldn't it be fair to say that $70,045 would be the minimum wage not $55k? Dunno know if I'm wrong or not, just can't quite put two and two together.
Can anyone clarify?
After all the training is done, type rating received, position obtained etc, wouldn't it be fair to say that $70,045 would be the minimum wage not $55k? Dunno know if I'm wrong or not, just can't quite put two and two together.
Can anyone clarify?
Swine Facipic
It may not cost you anything right now but over your career it will cost you about AUD$1,000,000.00 in lower terms and conditions compared to someone that came in as a DESO.
Id rather go for CX , where I dont have to pay anything.
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Jackliveshere
As its been pointed out in most of the posts, you're only an FO when you hold an ATPL, until then you're a Junior FO which is where the $55k comes from.
It would be a good few years to get the required hours to hold an ATPL.
As its been pointed out in most of the posts, you're only an FO when you hold an ATPL, until then you're a Junior FO which is where the $55k comes from.
It would be a good few years to get the required hours to hold an ATPL.
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How is a cadet meant to get all of the required hours to be granted their ATPL if they are stuck as a first officer
ATPL requirements state that a pilot must have 250 hours pilot in command (100 may be ICUS)
Does this mean 6 years stuck as a junior first officer, with no option for promotion to first officer or even captain?
ATPL requirements state that a pilot must have 250 hours pilot in command (100 may be ICUS)
Does this mean 6 years stuck as a junior first officer, with no option for promotion to first officer or even captain?
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It would be a good few years to get the required hours to hold an ATPL.
On attaining their Airline Transport Pilots licence, the recipient will then be able to continue occupying the right hand seat. Now fully qualified & with appropriate licencing.
uote:
It would be a good few years to get the required hours to hold an ATPL.
A few years engaged as a junior pilot sitting in the right hand seat of a jet, conducting Airline Transport operations, to enable the pilot to accrue the necessary experience to attain an Airline Transport Pilots Licence.
On attaining their Airline Transport Pilots licence, the recipient will then be able to continue occupying the right hand seat. Now fully qualified & with appropriate licencing.
It would be a good few years to get the required hours to hold an ATPL.
A few years engaged as a junior pilot sitting in the right hand seat of a jet, conducting Airline Transport operations, to enable the pilot to accrue the necessary experience to attain an Airline Transport Pilots Licence.
On attaining their Airline Transport Pilots licence, the recipient will then be able to continue occupying the right hand seat. Now fully qualified & with appropriate licencing.
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Has anyone done the very basic sums on this little venture?
If they train 70 in each group every year they stand to make/save themselves roughly (very rough) $60-65million over the first 6 years.
From a business point of view, one might ask why its taken so long?!
It seems the best way to be a part of this scheme is to buy into the company.
If they train 70 in each group every year they stand to make/save themselves roughly (very rough) $60-65million over the first 6 years.
From a business point of view, one might ask why its taken so long?!
It seems the best way to be a part of this scheme is to buy into the company.
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Titan
It may not cost you anything right now but over your career it will cost you about AUD$1,000,000.00 in lower terms and conditions compared to someone that came in as a DESO.
Jesus mate, serious question, what's it like driving a 30,000 ton train
Eocvictim, if those sums are correct.....Jetstar has some very smart bean counters who have just justified their jobs for a while!
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Thanks titan.
Does anyone know if Virgin Blue are likely to do something similar to this? If all the other carriers in aus are doing it they would also jump on the band wagon wouldn't they?
Does anyone know if Virgin Blue are likely to do something similar to this? If all the other carriers in aus are doing it they would also jump on the band wagon wouldn't they?
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Goblin
I'll reword my post.
The company has a Junior First Officer with minimal experience sitting in the right hand seat of a jet engaged in Airline Transport operations.
Essentially doing exactly the same duties as a Direct Entry Senior First Officer!
The company chooses to call it a Senior or Junior First Officer position. On those pay rates it's more like a "A" & "B" scale first officer wage for exactly the same work.
I can't help but note the irony, that a junior "B" scaler is engaged in Airline Transport Operations on a lower wage. To enable that person to attain an Airline Transport Licence, so they can continue to conduct the same work for the airline & on achieving that experience at the (higher) minimum wage per the Air Pilots award.
Why would the airline ever recruit experienced Direct Entries when they have a source of self funded pilots prepared to do the same work for less?
MC
I'll reword my post.
The company has a Junior First Officer with minimal experience sitting in the right hand seat of a jet engaged in Airline Transport operations.
Essentially doing exactly the same duties as a Direct Entry Senior First Officer!
The company chooses to call it a Senior or Junior First Officer position. On those pay rates it's more like a "A" & "B" scale first officer wage for exactly the same work.
I can't help but note the irony, that a junior "B" scaler is engaged in Airline Transport Operations on a lower wage. To enable that person to attain an Airline Transport Licence, so they can continue to conduct the same work for the airline & on achieving that experience at the (higher) minimum wage per the Air Pilots award.
Why would the airline ever recruit experienced Direct Entries when they have a source of self funded pilots prepared to do the same work for less?
MC
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Bells, Whistles and Shiny Baubles - cadet and traineeships --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All
Are all these cadetships and traineeships just bells, whistles and shiny baubles that dazzle the desperate aviator, longing to brag to the ladies that I'M A JET PILOT, (what a great song). But are you signing your short to medium term life (financially at least) away to an uncertain and only where "vacancy's exist future".
Or are they the way of the future, and maybe would have been a great thing to have 20+ years ago.
In a nut shell, Cadetships/Traineeships on this scale good, bad or a great money spinner, that might damage some young pilots careers and bank balances?
Hi All
Are all these cadetships and traineeships just bells, whistles and shiny baubles that dazzle the desperate aviator, longing to brag to the ladies that I'M A JET PILOT, (what a great song). But are you signing your short to medium term life (financially at least) away to an uncertain and only where "vacancy's exist future".
Or are they the way of the future, and maybe would have been a great thing to have 20+ years ago.
In a nut shell, Cadetships/Traineeships on this scale good, bad or a great money spinner, that might damage some young pilots careers and bank balances?
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But are you signing your short to medium term life (financially at least) away to an uncertain and only where "vacancy's exist future".
"......has some exciting opportunities for Junior First Officer to be based in.....(insert third world country name here).....for a period of up to six years. Interested pilots shall contact flight operations by close of business Monday & report for duty at.....(insert Seconday Airport in Capital City here).....at 9am Friday."
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Missing Out
I think the cadets will be missing out.
Yes going through GA is hard. Yes it is very painful at times and yes you do have to deal with a lot of 'interesting' operators. But its all character building, and looking back its a fantastic experience. You meet a lot of great people all going through the same thing, and the mateship you get going through that, well i'm sorry but you just don't get in a large airline.
The other thing is, going through GA you get to do a lot of ACTUAL flying.
For at least some of these young cadets, i'm sure there is a dream of poling a plane around the sky, and sadly once they start with a airline, well thats just not how its done. And although an airline is the end goal for most and dealing with the fact that we will all eventually become 'managers' rather than 'stick n rudder men', is enevitable, at least going through GA you get that fix for a few years.
I wouldn't change a thing did in my GA time, and I would say to all the would be cadets - don't discount the great times you can have bashing around in control of a 5, 10 or 20 seater before you spend the next 40 odd years pushing buttons
Yes going through GA is hard. Yes it is very painful at times and yes you do have to deal with a lot of 'interesting' operators. But its all character building, and looking back its a fantastic experience. You meet a lot of great people all going through the same thing, and the mateship you get going through that, well i'm sorry but you just don't get in a large airline.
The other thing is, going through GA you get to do a lot of ACTUAL flying.
For at least some of these young cadets, i'm sure there is a dream of poling a plane around the sky, and sadly once they start with a airline, well thats just not how its done. And although an airline is the end goal for most and dealing with the fact that we will all eventually become 'managers' rather than 'stick n rudder men', is enevitable, at least going through GA you get that fix for a few years.
I wouldn't change a thing did in my GA time, and I would say to all the would be cadets - don't discount the great times you can have bashing around in control of a 5, 10 or 20 seater before you spend the next 40 odd years pushing buttons
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(airline flying is so restricted now through the use of QAR's etc
that many pilots reflect back on the fun flying they did prior to
joining an airline)
that many pilots reflect back on the fun flying they did prior to
joining an airline)
enhances the yearn.
I was just wondering whats become of the Makeshift Pilot
Licence (MPL) program CASA was sprooking a while back?
Last edited by Slasher; 6th Jun 2010 at 15:05.
Last night on Ch7 News. Article about Jetstar pushing for MPL and Oxford supplying the product. CH7 gasping that 19yo kids could be flying you around in an airliner
Looked to me more like an add for Oxford.
Looked to me more like an add for Oxford.
The reporter travelled to Melbourne courtesy of Jetstar
