Borghetti Off To Virgin
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The developments with DJ's products are always interesting. A couple of times a good idea seems to have had been implemented in ways which surprise me and don't seem to pick up on the lessons others have learnt.
AirNZ has reduced 737 and A320 seat pitch in both planes and reversed it the second time on the 737 back to a min of 30 inches. The lesson learnt seems to be don't drop below 30" and to sell the benefits of space plus while treating the basic economy seat of 30" as standard.
With the 738 I suspect there is room/scope to reduce the seat pitch of some rows down to 30", especially if they reduce the pitch of the blue zone (exit rows), as AirNZ did in the back half of the A320 economy when they went to 142 seat in economy. However AirNZ was a lot quieter about it than DJ are (having tried the layout at Freedon Air first). Actually DJ seems louder about the fact they are reducing seat pitch than I recall them advertising the extra seat pitch they have been offering above the competition.
To me the message should have been communicated as part of an overall product revamp and rebranding where it was sold as our most loyal customers and those on higher fare tickets get the better seats which have an extra 2 inches leg room, access to lounge, priority ... etc. All our other economy seats are industry standard (ie 30 inches) but we offer frequent flyer points, modern planes and a good choice of buy on board food etc.
AirNZ has reduced 737 and A320 seat pitch in both planes and reversed it the second time on the 737 back to a min of 30 inches. The lesson learnt seems to be don't drop below 30" and to sell the benefits of space plus while treating the basic economy seat of 30" as standard.
With the 738 I suspect there is room/scope to reduce the seat pitch of some rows down to 30", especially if they reduce the pitch of the blue zone (exit rows), as AirNZ did in the back half of the A320 economy when they went to 142 seat in economy. However AirNZ was a lot quieter about it than DJ are (having tried the layout at Freedon Air first). Actually DJ seems louder about the fact they are reducing seat pitch than I recall them advertising the extra seat pitch they have been offering above the competition.
To me the message should have been communicated as part of an overall product revamp and rebranding where it was sold as our most loyal customers and those on higher fare tickets get the better seats which have an extra 2 inches leg room, access to lounge, priority ... etc. All our other economy seats are industry standard (ie 30 inches) but we offer frequent flyer points, modern planes and a good choice of buy on board food etc.
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Claw Back
DJ need to do a lot more with their structure before they come even close to hitting the target.
For example :
1) Ground Services covering ramp and check-in.
QF - For example has been trimming away at the fat for some time now. Gradually ports are being outsourced to third party providers,and it won't be long until mainline ports are tendered out completely once and for all.
JQ - Use third party operators in regional ports,and EGH in mainline ports.A far leaner and cost effective structure than QF and DJ who have multiple layers of managers,supervisors and the list goes on.Pilots operate on a lower pay scale and structure which DJ can't compete with (except with V Australia).
Tiger - Again,lean and mean in structure but cost effective.
Tiger and JQ also are lean in every single aspect inluding ops control and lower and mid level management,which is basically non existent.Pilots earn less than DJ and JQ !
I understand most of you will argue that DJ still retains 'flair' and a happy smile at check-in etc,but that won't earn them additional profits in the long term when fuel and labor are the two biggest costs.
As for DJ's collection of managers,supervisors,specilaists and assorted footstools that have ballooned at a ridiculous rate over the past 6 years, this area needs urgent attention by ditching this excessive pond of wasted resources and better utilising that money on the product itself. Then again DJ has a history of approving this expansion of plebs and brown nosers should be walked out the door for allowing such a bad investment of resources and hang their heads in shame.
Then again,the same incompetents have built a three class system that has not worked and never will work.
Interesting how some people have stuffed up hedging prices,stuffed up airport structures,stuffed up people's superannuation and even forget to fill in aircraft warranties which cost them dearly, yet still retain their lucrative packages and strut the hall's of the village like catwalk models seraching for a mirror.
The Village is another location that contains copious amounts of deadwood soaking up precious money.My advice for JB when he comes onboard is check under all the manager's desks,cupboards,hiding areas for all this excess baggage and turf them out in the waste where they belong.Ask yourself, with a mainline airport for example,do you need an Airport Manager,an Operations Manager,AMCO Manager,3 x Ramp Managers, 3 x Guest Service Managers, then multiple layers of supervisory roles under that, when an outfit like Tiger and JQ run the same operation with 80% less mangement roles ? C'mon JB, grab the broom.
I might also suggest JB speak individually with as many 'frontline' people as he can,without having any 'minders' or bottom dwellers hovering over him and preventing face to face honest and open conversation. He may be surprised at what he hears...
For example :
1) Ground Services covering ramp and check-in.
QF - For example has been trimming away at the fat for some time now. Gradually ports are being outsourced to third party providers,and it won't be long until mainline ports are tendered out completely once and for all.
JQ - Use third party operators in regional ports,and EGH in mainline ports.A far leaner and cost effective structure than QF and DJ who have multiple layers of managers,supervisors and the list goes on.Pilots operate on a lower pay scale and structure which DJ can't compete with (except with V Australia).
Tiger - Again,lean and mean in structure but cost effective.
Tiger and JQ also are lean in every single aspect inluding ops control and lower and mid level management,which is basically non existent.Pilots earn less than DJ and JQ !
I understand most of you will argue that DJ still retains 'flair' and a happy smile at check-in etc,but that won't earn them additional profits in the long term when fuel and labor are the two biggest costs.
As for DJ's collection of managers,supervisors,specilaists and assorted footstools that have ballooned at a ridiculous rate over the past 6 years, this area needs urgent attention by ditching this excessive pond of wasted resources and better utilising that money on the product itself. Then again DJ has a history of approving this expansion of plebs and brown nosers should be walked out the door for allowing such a bad investment of resources and hang their heads in shame.
Then again,the same incompetents have built a three class system that has not worked and never will work.
Interesting how some people have stuffed up hedging prices,stuffed up airport structures,stuffed up people's superannuation and even forget to fill in aircraft warranties which cost them dearly, yet still retain their lucrative packages and strut the hall's of the village like catwalk models seraching for a mirror.
The Village is another location that contains copious amounts of deadwood soaking up precious money.My advice for JB when he comes onboard is check under all the manager's desks,cupboards,hiding areas for all this excess baggage and turf them out in the waste where they belong.Ask yourself, with a mainline airport for example,do you need an Airport Manager,an Operations Manager,AMCO Manager,3 x Ramp Managers, 3 x Guest Service Managers, then multiple layers of supervisory roles under that, when an outfit like Tiger and JQ run the same operation with 80% less mangement roles ? C'mon JB, grab the broom.
I might also suggest JB speak individually with as many 'frontline' people as he can,without having any 'minders' or bottom dwellers hovering over him and preventing face to face honest and open conversation. He may be surprised at what he hears...
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John, get rid of the beige uniforms ASAP, the colour may match RB's dyed hair but will never come back this century. Get new CC that have never said "do you want fries with that". The low fares won't last for ever so try and attract the more average traveller with a more mature style in the cabin. New livery wouldn't go astray rather than looking like a can of flyspray with wings.
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highland cow,
My concern is that if you get rid of the existing uniform, you may get rid of the 'VPL" !! Do we really want that ?
John, get rid of the beige uniforms ASAP, the colour may match RB's dyed hair but will never come back this century.
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As reported in Airline Transport World last week . . . looks like non-stop flights to London and New York are being considered (see bold/italics below – my emphasis).
Borghetti to lead long-haul era at Virgin Blue
Wednesday March 3, 2010
Airline Transport World
By Geoffrey Thomas
In a clear sign that it is moving its product offering up-market, Virgin Blue yesterday confirmed widespread speculation and appointed former Qantas Executive GM John Borghetti, 54, to take the reins from retiring founder and CEO Brett Godfrey.
Borghetti, who will take over in May, would not discuss his plans when asked by ATWOnline, but it is widely believed he will endorse a plan to buy 777-200LRs for the group's V Australia subsidiary in order to launch non-stop Perth-London Heathrow and Sydney-New York JFK service. LHR-SYD also is a possibility (ATWOnline, Nov. 6, 2009).
Qantas examined the concept in 2005 but decided against it since the aircraft would have been a new model in its fleet. V Australia, however, is a 777-300ER operator, has six options to exercise and could take delivery of a -200LR next year.
One analyst told this website that the ultra-long-range concept would be a "perfect fit" for Borghetti and Virgin Blue. "Non-stops are what Australian business traffic wants and Qantas will not be able to match V Australia. It will give them a clear point of difference going forward," the Sydney-based analyst said.
Virgin Group Chairman Richard Branson, who is Blue's largest shareholder, has told ATWOnline that he has "serious interest" in operating non-stop between LHR and Perth and that the service almost certainly would be a joint V Australia/Virgin Atlantic Airways flight.
At Qantas, Borghetti developed one of the world's best domestic economy products and it is expected that he will reshape Blue's domestic offering with an upgraded and dedicated premium economy aimed at the corporate market as the airline strives to capture more high-yield traffic. He resigned from QF last May (ATWOnline, April 8, 2009).
According to Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation Chairman Peter Harbison, "Yield management is an art and [Borghetti] is an artist. Borghetti is a positive for Virgin Blue."
Godfrey told this website last week that the airline will start taking delivery of 50 737NGs next year. Aircraft will feature three economy cabins--premium economy, economy and economy lite. The latter option will feature less legroom and is designed to compete with budget carriers (ATWOnline, Nov. 6, 2009).
Wednesday March 3, 2010
Airline Transport World
By Geoffrey Thomas
In a clear sign that it is moving its product offering up-market, Virgin Blue yesterday confirmed widespread speculation and appointed former Qantas Executive GM John Borghetti, 54, to take the reins from retiring founder and CEO Brett Godfrey.
Borghetti, who will take over in May, would not discuss his plans when asked by ATWOnline, but it is widely believed he will endorse a plan to buy 777-200LRs for the group's V Australia subsidiary in order to launch non-stop Perth-London Heathrow and Sydney-New York JFK service. LHR-SYD also is a possibility (ATWOnline, Nov. 6, 2009).
Qantas examined the concept in 2005 but decided against it since the aircraft would have been a new model in its fleet. V Australia, however, is a 777-300ER operator, has six options to exercise and could take delivery of a -200LR next year.
One analyst told this website that the ultra-long-range concept would be a "perfect fit" for Borghetti and Virgin Blue. "Non-stops are what Australian business traffic wants and Qantas will not be able to match V Australia. It will give them a clear point of difference going forward," the Sydney-based analyst said.
Virgin Group Chairman Richard Branson, who is Blue's largest shareholder, has told ATWOnline that he has "serious interest" in operating non-stop between LHR and Perth and that the service almost certainly would be a joint V Australia/Virgin Atlantic Airways flight.
At Qantas, Borghetti developed one of the world's best domestic economy products and it is expected that he will reshape Blue's domestic offering with an upgraded and dedicated premium economy aimed at the corporate market as the airline strives to capture more high-yield traffic. He resigned from QF last May (ATWOnline, April 8, 2009).
According to Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation Chairman Peter Harbison, "Yield management is an art and [Borghetti] is an artist. Borghetti is a positive for Virgin Blue."
Godfrey told this website last week that the airline will start taking delivery of 50 737NGs next year. Aircraft will feature three economy cabins--premium economy, economy and economy lite. The latter option will feature less legroom and is designed to compete with budget carriers (ATWOnline, Nov. 6, 2009).
Last edited by Pedota; 8th Mar 2010 at 21:34. Reason: Incompetence
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JB has always been a fan of the Tripler......especially the 777-200LR.
I was in PER in 2003 when Boeing sent the 777-LR to PER for a PR exercise. It was talked about then -that it could do PER-LHR ( at a pinch, with pay load restrictions) but could easily do the LHR-PER ( even with etops considerations)
When JB was in the Base not long after this event-the question was asked-"will QF be getting them??"
Answer- ="serious considerations..........and he said he really likes what it can do" .
We all thought-Great ! .....as this would give the Base a long term -long haul future.
Alas....The rest is history
Reading between the lines-it appeared JB was rolled by Gregg and his accountants to go for the "cheaper option"
So good luck to JB / Virgin.....if it comes off. It will be a bonus for WA.......especially for the once loyal QF punter who when he/she wants to go to JFK.....they have to take a deep breath, drop a few Valiums and transit through a Domestic nightmare aircraft change in SYD then put up with THE HURT LOCKER routine transiting LAX.
SYD-JFK .......now we're talk'n
I was in PER in 2003 when Boeing sent the 777-LR to PER for a PR exercise. It was talked about then -that it could do PER-LHR ( at a pinch, with pay load restrictions) but could easily do the LHR-PER ( even with etops considerations)
When JB was in the Base not long after this event-the question was asked-"will QF be getting them??"
Answer- ="serious considerations..........and he said he really likes what it can do" .
We all thought-Great ! .....as this would give the Base a long term -long haul future.
Alas....The rest is history
Reading between the lines-it appeared JB was rolled by Gregg and his accountants to go for the "cheaper option"
So good luck to JB / Virgin.....if it comes off. It will be a bonus for WA.......especially for the once loyal QF punter who when he/she wants to go to JFK.....they have to take a deep breath, drop a few Valiums and transit through a Domestic nightmare aircraft change in SYD then put up with THE HURT LOCKER routine transiting LAX.
SYD-JFK .......now we're talk'n
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Interesting
Something is working VB shares today 74 cents
Since the sudden departure of RW as GM (the details behind the reason behind his departure have been leaked and an internal investigation has commenced),there has been some cat fighting over who has the 'must haves' and deserves to fill 'acting GM role'.Inside word from deep within 'The Village People' is that Mr Daley has successfuly trumped the other 'unsuccessful candidate' for the position. It has also been suggested that the other individual would be wise to consider a future external to DJ, because as soon as JB comes onboard, it is bye bye. Perhaps Mcdonalds is an option more closely suited to this individuals abilities ?
Finally,can anyone confirm what role 'Professor Klump' has secured within the upcoming structure change ? Word is that he too is 'walking the green mile' ? If any of these rumours come to fruition you can tack an extra 10 cents on to the share price!
Keeping the air fair
Flying Europe direct Oz sounds like a winner to me. All they need to do if align the schedule to have jets arrive from all the capitals a few hours before the departure time to feed the route.
I think the problem is- who is going to want to sit in a econ seat for the 18 hours?
Do you think you could make money by flying an all premium config, feed the route using VB's econ 737s. For me I would love a 'low Cost buissness' style set up, with a bit of space and something to watch. I think if they could set it up so you fly econ to perth on a day flight then buisness to europe for a price slightly higher than the very expensive Q or singa econ, it would be an absolute winner and they would dominate. I think most people don't fly business for the lounges and the fine dining, for me it is all about the space and having a comfy big chair. Without all these extra costs, surely vb can put together a product that is innovative, value for money and competitive.
And also wouldn't Darwin be closer to EGLL?
I think the problem is- who is going to want to sit in a econ seat for the 18 hours?
Do you think you could make money by flying an all premium config, feed the route using VB's econ 737s. For me I would love a 'low Cost buissness' style set up, with a bit of space and something to watch. I think if they could set it up so you fly econ to perth on a day flight then buisness to europe for a price slightly higher than the very expensive Q or singa econ, it would be an absolute winner and they would dominate. I think most people don't fly business for the lounges and the fine dining, for me it is all about the space and having a comfy big chair. Without all these extra costs, surely vb can put together a product that is innovative, value for money and competitive.
And also wouldn't Darwin be closer to EGLL?
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wouldn't Darwin be closer to EGLL?
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Too true .......Red Jet.
I can tell you that the Perth Punters would love a PER-LHR direct service. Qantas has only a meagre share of the international market ex PER due to the glut of other carriers.
Most people here are over the transit in SIN,HKG or Dubai.....as it involves an aircraft change. ! They still yearn for the days when BA use to do a daily PER-SIN-LHR service every arvo -same aircraft ( BA pulled out in 2002)
WA was ( and for some
) always will be an Ansett state...... since MMA. Most couldn't give a rats about supporting QF. So if V-Aust offer a better product.......DIRECT.
I can tell you that the Perth Punters would love a PER-LHR direct service. Qantas has only a meagre share of the international market ex PER due to the glut of other carriers.
Most people here are over the transit in SIN,HKG or Dubai.....as it involves an aircraft change. ! They still yearn for the days when BA use to do a daily PER-SIN-LHR service every arvo -same aircraft ( BA pulled out in 2002)
WA was ( and for some
) always will be an Ansett state...... since MMA. Most couldn't give a rats about supporting QF. So if V-Aust offer a better product.......DIRECT.
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cactusjack
I also thought that was very sus, Martin Daley is now confirmed as the new GM of ground ops.
Since the sudden departure of RW as GM (the details behind the reason behind his departure have been leaked and an internal investigation has commenced)
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I think if they could set it up so you fly econ to perth on a day flight then buisness to europe for a price slightly higher than the very expensive Q or singa econ, it would be an absolute winner and they would dominate.
Sure I'd like to buy a Mercedes for around $1500 too but it's not like that's ever going to happen.
They still have to cover the cost of fuel, supplies, staff, wear and tear on an aircraft and all the rest of it, maybe even make a profit while they are at it.
The trouble is, everyone wants a fare cheaper than the local bus but they also want champagne and caviar too. Compare a $15,000 first class fare to the cost of chartering a private jet and it's a bargain. But business and first will never be "slightly higher than" economy for the sheer economics of it. You can't just quarter the number of seats and only charge a little more than before without going broke. That tiny cabin with the lucky 12 seats in it, would otherwise house 60 or more economy seats. Maybe that's why J fares are what they are.
And the trouble with providing a watered down business class (smaller space, less than top shelf facilities and menu's) and charging lets say twice the price of economy (instead of the usual 7 times the price) is that people complain. They compare your cheaper biz product to the full priced version and think they are being ripped off. When in fact, they are getting the level of comfort they are paying for.
Sure I'd like to buy a Mercedes for around $1500 too but it's not like that's ever going to happen.
They still have to cover the cost of fuel, supplies, staff, wear and tear on an aircraft and all the rest of it, maybe even make a profit while they are at it.
The trouble is, everyone wants a fare cheaper than the local bus but they also want champagne and caviar too. Compare a $15,000 first class fare to the cost of chartering a private jet and it's a bargain. But business and first will never be "slightly higher than" economy for the sheer economics of it. You can't just quarter the number of seats and only charge a little more than before without going broke. That tiny cabin with the lucky 12 seats in it, would otherwise house 60 or more economy seats. Maybe that's why J fares are what they are. And the trouble with providing a watered down business class (smaller space, less than top shelf facilities and menu's) and charging lets say twice the price of economy (instead of the usual 7 times the price) is that people complain. They compare your cheaper biz product to the full priced version and think they are being ripped off. When in fact, they are getting the level of comfort they are paying for.
Last edited by AirborneSoon; 12th Mar 2010 at 03:08.
Sure I'd like to buy a Mercedes for around $1500 too but it's not like that's ever going to happen.
And this is why it will be a long time for V oz to be a player. They don't offer anything different to any other airline. Its just the same old.......
Air Asia is able to provide the old style buisness class seating going from the Goldy to kl for just over $1000. How much does this cost with Q? I bet it costs more to fly econ with Q than premium whatever its called with Air asia.
Would you choose to fly econ with Q and sit like a sardine or premo in a big chair with air asia? Are you saying air asia doesn't make a profit with the premium seats?
Don't get me wrong, I deffinately do not think voz should be the next long haul ryan air. But if air Asia can charge what they do, I am sure V oz can make a profit running a full premium product at a price that people would be willing to pay, Ie. not 10g with q buisness.
The first airline which works out how to do this will be very successful.
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I think it's a poor strategy to be chasing the bottom end of the market- because it's all about price (and thereby limiting possible yield).
Anyone who travels regularly- especially business- are far more interested in the total trip time, and the timing of arrival. Shave a few hours off the total trip time, and it WILL be a winner. QF would be forced to react.
Anyone who travels regularly- especially business- are far more interested in the total trip time, and the timing of arrival. Shave a few hours off the total trip time, and it WILL be a winner. QF would be forced to react.
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Originally Posted by ferris
Anyone who travels regularly- especially business- are far more interested in the total trip time, and the timing of arrival. Shave a few hours off the total trip time, and it WILL be a winner. QF would be forced to react.
Currently this means I put serious thought into making an A380 trip wherever possible. Hopefully when the 787 comes on line that will expand the routes where modern levels of comfort are provided.