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Jetstar forces wheelchair passenger to crawl across tarmac

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Jetstar forces wheelchair passenger to crawl across tarmac

Old 26th Nov 2009, 03:56
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Fearney lost ALL creditability when he chose an award ceremony to air his dirty linen over the treatment he received from the deathstar. Regardless of the causes of the complaint, Fearney showed CONTEMPT for the assembled guests at that ceremony...in my opinion a far worse case of humiliation than his antics at the airport.

I choose not to fly deathstar...my own choice! Early in the game deathstar treat ALL their customers like cr regardless of perceived disabilities...made up my mind then and have no need to change it...However, I am NOT going to stand up at a dining-in night and slag off at a company for alleged poor treatment...a situation totally unrelated to the event....Poor form on Fearney's part
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 04:09
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely spot on. He riduculed himself and embarrassed other people who have disabilities that go about their day as those without a disability. He's a spoilt little brat.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 04:27
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Boomerang_Butt

so why complain that JQ were not following policy?
Weíre not saying they werenít following policy. Weíre saying their policy was wrong.
I know several people in wheelchairs and they have said to me they prefer to transfer at check-in rather than be 'on the spot' at the gate in front of everyone else.
And all those airlines that I mentioned also allow disabled pax to transfer at check in if they so wish. Jetstar and Tiger donít give disabled pax any choice. So much for their advertising slogan ďCHOICESĒ.
I know each case is different but it seems to me that this man could have brought up his issues with the policy in a better way.
Iím sorry but it would have fallen on deaf ears. To get any large company to change a policy is like extracting teeth. Been there done that.
They offered an alternative, he chose not to use it.
Because it wasnít a self propelled wheelchair. It required someone to push it and if you have spent any time around paraplegics you would understand how some absolutely loath being pushed anywhere. A sense of loosing their independence and being a burden on society is what usually triggers this loathing.
At the end of the day JQ are still a business and given that people want to fly on cheap fares, there are shorter turnarounds which mean less time to do things like take pax chairs at the gate. Maybe that's the reason for the policy of taking chairs at check-in?
If Ryanair and Southwest Airline, two LCCís that Jetstar have modelled themselves on can offer this choice then so can Jetstar.
All respect but it seems to work fine for the majority of passengers travelling with wheelchairs that use JQ.
Most pax using wheelchairs aren't paraplegics. They're elderly pax with mobility issues who would prefer someone pushing them anyway.
Perhaps it needs to be refined but I wouldn't say it is outright WRONG...
It's outright wrong when it doesn't consider the special needs of parapligic pax.

Mr. Hat & OZBUSDRIVER

That is your opinion. I just donít agree with you.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 04:32
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Thats okay 404, I'm sure there are a million other things we would agree on. The good thing is for the sake of robust adult debate that neither of us feel inclined to start calling names or comparing aircraft sizes!
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 04:43
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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404, I do understand that some wheelchair users do not like being 'pushed everywhere'- however as I said sometimes we can't always have things the way we want and I'm sure there are plenty of people with other health issues who do not like other policies on air travel- for example, the requirements for oxygen on board, crew being unable to accept medication for storage, and so on.

Jetstar are not the only airline and while I sympathise with the difficulties of travel it's not always possible to please everyone and the man in discussion had the choice to use a carrier who would allow him to use his chair to the gate. My issue is not with the needs of this man it's with his attack on a company that on the day did the best they knew how. They had a policy in place and it can't please everyone. Most people who travel with them are happy with it. They tried to offer him alternatives which he didn't want, what else can they do, refuse to let him travel? That would have made an ever bigger issue than the one we have here! Jetstar have agreed to review the policy, however where will it end?

Mr Fearnley wanted to travel by air, there are certain things that happen in airports and for the convenience of travelling by air most people with disabilities are wiilling to make concessions to their 'independence' by relying on others. I applaud his desire to be independant and not a burden on anyone but the reality is it's just not possible to be completely self-reliant (whether you are able-bodied or rely on a wheelchair) it's human nature, the degree of assistance we need is different but we all need help in one way or another. I just disagree with his way of going about things, that's my opinion which obviously differs from yours and let's leave it at that.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 04:58
  #86 (permalink)  
Sprucegoose
 
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Now let's see, this guy crawled the Kokoda Track then complained that he had to crawl to the aircraft, rather than be pushed in a wheelchair that was not his own? Let him crawl I say!

The crew would have been well within their rights to leave a 'disruptive' passenger behind! Disabled, or not!

Next he'll be wanting the exit row seat!
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 05:18
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Boomerang_Butt

As Iíve said his issue wasnít with the staff. He knew their arms were tied. It was with the company and a pointless policy. Can you tell me why the policy is there in the first place? If as I suspect it is commercial, it speak volumes of the calibre of JQ management or should I say lack of. This is a morality issue and it is plainly wrong that JQ require paraplegic pax to change wheelchairs ie their legs if you like before it is absolutely necessary for safety reasons.

Howard Hughes
Let him crawl I say!
Do you actually realise how that comment makes you sound? I donít like using the word but Bigoted isnít too strong Iím afraid.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 05:45
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Weíre not saying they werenít following policy. Weíre saying their policy was wrong.
404 - YOU seem to be the only one with a problem with this policy. The policy if fine and well documented, and is NOT a problem for the hundreds of TRULY disabled passengers you have no problems complying with it day in and day out.

Fearnley is pretty mobile on his own, and this is nothing more than a stunt for which he deserves condemnation for.

Your constant support for this moron, and bashing of Jetstar is getting very tiring.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 05:52
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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and is NOT a problem for the hundreds of TRULY disabled passengers
"Truly disabled ?" !!!!!!!!

The bloke has no legs FFS.

Unbelievable, except that I'm reading it.

There is clearly no point in trying to reason with this calibre of individual.

FWIW 404 Titan is not the only one arguing in support of this fellow and against this bloody minded Jetstar policy.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 06:26
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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"Truly disabled ?" !!!!!!!!
The bloke has no legs FFS.
Most people in a wheelchair couldn't crawl out of bed. This guy "crawled" the whole Kakoda trail, and merrily across the tarmac without blinking an eye!.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 06:30
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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I rest my case.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 06:53
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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404 Titan

I can understand how this probably did upset him to lose the bit of independence that he has in his wheelchair (He is obviously more independent than some able bodied people without it). But what I think most people are getting at is the scene he has made! For instance, how the hell does he compare it to you or me having our legs tied together, our pants pulled down and being carried through the terminal???

My point was, OK fair enough maybe Jetstars policy isnt politically correct enough for some people with low tolerance levels (extreme in this case), maybe other Airlines have different policies (not really the point though, it is J* policy, even if bad policy for some reason or other).
But again, Right or Wrong on either parties case, his reaction and aftermath was not fair on staff only doing their jobs!

Another thing I dont know and am interested to know, did he not have family traveling with him or not? Why the scene if he had loved ones to help him through his very short deprivation of self propelled transport?

Im sure we can all agree to disagree on this but as much good as the guy has done in life with his situation, my opinion is he has shown what a poor personality he really has!
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 08:21
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Yes I do suspect the reason is commercial Titan, I've already said I believe it is due to staffing levels and tight turnaround times. JQ do not pretend to be anything other than a LCC and to expect them to provide the same level of service as a full-service carrier (even if Virgin et al offer a 'gate check' for chairs) is beside the point... it's not what they choose to do and they documented it accordingly.

As far as I'm aware there's no legislation to say what level of support is meant to be there, aside from that it should. Jetstar choose to provide less support than say Cathay or Qantas (examples you cited earlier) Until there's a law that says pax must be allowed to transfer at the gate then certain airlines are going to err on the side of less manpower/time cost... Again I'm not saying it's 'morally' right but that's how it is.

QF have a well-known policy for supporting wheelchair pax, right down to the pamphlets they hand out at check-in asking questions such as 'How do you transfer' and 'When do you want to change chairs' or similar. Doesn't mean other airlines have to offer it, QF are just choosing to be more advanced in their approach.

I think the sad thing about this case is no-one's gonna remember him doing Kokoda in 10 years, he'll be remembered as the guy who 'threw a tantrum' (to quote commenters online) and his other achievements will be overshadowed by this. By all means he should try to change policy where it is lacking, but I have a feeling he's also aliented a lot of the disabled community by acting the way he has, who would otherwise have been behind his quest for reforms.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 09:35
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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404 Titan

You are actually acting like a bigger fool than the clown in question. Get of the JQ bashing bandwagon. What did JQ knock you back or are you just a fence sitter having your little say. You are making all of us down under look like [email protected]#%heads to the rest of the aviation community over this ridiculous issue when it is obvious JQ did the best they could in this particular situation.
This is JQ policy. Get over it. It's their train set. If you don't like then f#@$ off. There are plenty of good people at JQ who work under trying conditions who then have to listen or read this crap.

Another reject
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 10:07
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Boomerang_Butt

So now that you have conceded that it is most likely for commercial reasons Jetstar requires disabled pax to surrender their wheelchairs at check-in, are you telling me it is morally right to profit off the backs of the disabled because this is exactly what they are doing. Why should there be a new law dictating what is essentially a morality issue. We should all know what is right or wrong. Do you honestly need the government to hold your hand for everything? Ryanair and Southwest, two of the most profitable LCCís in the world have chosen that it isnít acceptable but they manage to turn their aircraft around in just as short a time as Jetstar with the same staffing constraints. Maybe Jetstar needs to look at its boarding and ramp handling procedures if it is so frigging hard to put a wheelchair in the bulk cargo compartment at the last minute.

You may think his outburst will be all the public will remember in ten years time but the reality is that the public have short memories for everything.

I accept some may have an issue with Mr Fearnleyís method of delivery but I am god smacked that we are actually here debating the merits or otherwise of Jetstarís policy.

p.j.m

As for you ďp.j.mĒ, if you are actually in a customer orientated position, you are in the wrong line of work my friend. Your attitude is giving your airline a very bad name.

captaintunedog777
What did JQ knock you back
Youíre kidding arenít you? Why would I want to work for Jetstar? Never applied and never will. Actually thatís not entirely true. I applied to Impulse back in the mid 90ís and actually got the job and I knocked them back, twice.
Get of the JQ bashing bandwagon.
For the record I couldnít give a rats ar*e which airlines policy it was including my own airline, I would be just as vocal.
This is JQ policy. Get over it. It's their train set.
Sure it may be their train set. It doesnít make it right though. If people didnít object to things like this from time to time which is their right under our constitution, change would never happen.
There are plenty of good people at JQ who work under trying conditions
I never said there werenít. I actually feel sorry for the staff particularly the ones that had to deal with Mr Fearnley on the day. Itís not their fault that Jetstar has such a stupid policy.
If you don't like then f#@$ off.
Iíll just put that down to you debating the man and not the topic.
404 Titan is offline  
Old 26th Nov 2009, 10:29
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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There are plenty of good people at JQ who work under trying conditions who then have to listen or read this crap.
Strangely enough, I would tend to blame JQ for the JQ policy and the JQ imposed trying conditions JQ staff have to work under...rather than blame the JQ clients/customers who pay JQ money in good faith for a supposed service?

No wonder the opposition run circles around JQ...
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 10:33
  #97 (permalink)  
Sprucegoose
 
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Do you actually realise how that comment makes you sound? I donít like using the word but Bigoted isnít too strong Iím afraid.
404 Titan

The opening line needs to be read in it's entirety!

What I am eluding to is that this gentleman is simply grandstanding! He is able to crawl the Kokoda Trail, yet because of pride he won't be pushed in a wheelchair, so elects to crawl, so let him. He then tries to make out that he is being victimised by the airline. He is not being victimised, nor was he singled out, this is a blanket policy which applies to all wheelchair bound patrons.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 11:16
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Howard Hughes

Look weíll just go around in circles if we debate the merits of his delivery method. But if you are actually debating the merits of the policy I find it hard to fathom anyone who could actually think it is right. Itís there purely for commercial reasons not safety and therefore by default they (Jetstar and Tiger) are both profiteering of the backs of disabled pax. This is morally wrong.
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 11:50
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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JetStar does not want unaccompanied childern, cripples, spastics, blind, deaf and dumb, aged or otherwise infirm passengers. Such passengers are encouraged to either fly with JetStar's competitors or stay at home and don't travel at all.

We do not have the systems, staff or facilities required to assume responsibility for assistance and supervision of passengers.
For the avoidance of doubt, please see JetStar's Policy on "Independent traveller requirement - Children" and "Limited special assistance" shown at the following link:

At the airport - Travel information - Jetstar Airways

For passengers who are protected from discrimination by Australian Law, JetStar will begrudgingly undertake "Limited Special Assistance".

The law does not require JetStar to provide this service in a respectful and friendly way...especially if you check-in after 29 minutes before the flight due to lengthy queues even if caused by inadequate numbers of JetStar check-in staff...
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Old 26th Nov 2009, 12:33
  #100 (permalink)  
pcx
 
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404

Does Jetstar charge disabled pax more than an able bodied pax to provide the level of service required by the disabled. I suspect not.

It must cost Jetstar more to carry a disabled pax then an able bodied one and provide the level of service that they do. I accept that this level of service does not meet with your approval, however they do provide a service to their disabled pax that they do not need to provide an able bodied pax.

So how then can you contend that jetstar are "profiteering of the backs of disabled pax". That is really just an emotional statement without foundation.

After my previous post you said that my comment:-

"To say that this was taking away his independence is probably true to a limited point, however there are some limitations that have to be accepted when one becomes disabled for any reason."

To say that this was taking away his independence is probably true to a limited point, however there are some limitations that have to be accepted when one becomes disabled for any reason.
was:-

"one of the dumbest thinks I have ever heard anyone say and speaks volumes to your incredible lack of compassion."

For me to make this statement says nothing about my compassion or lack of it. It is a statement of fact.

The cold hard fact is that there are some things that disabled people can not do. In our industry a couple of them would be:-

Occupy an exit row seat
Be employed as a pilot on an airline jet.

On the day in question another was that Mr Fearnly would be required to check his wheelchair at check in.

His subsequent behaviour did him and his cause absolutely no credit.

I made no comment on Jetstar's policy. This is because I am of two minds.

Jetstar could improve their policy.

However, Jetstar have set out a business model for their version of a LCC. The services that they provide are based on their model. Comparisons with other LCC's are not valid as their business model will vary from Jetstar's. The services and T&C's that they provide for the fare they charge are set out in their web site and are available from other sources.

Nevertheless, Mr Fearnly chose to fly Jetstar and thus accepted their terms and conditions.

By all means attempt to force Jetstar to change those terms and conditions if you wish. But do so in an appropriate way.

As I said, I do not like some of Jetstar's t&c's so I choose not to fly with them.
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