Qantas mainline:Where to from here ?

[breakfastburrito]

I have no doubt that most QF employess can see the reality, however they are either unwilling or actively resentful of any attempts to rectify the problems which affect their work area.

Lonjohn, this quote is incorrect for the QF pilot group. They have been denied the ability to be part of the solution.
The pilot group negotiated the MOU to allow to transfers to J*, however management have done everything in their power to thwart this process - don't blame the attitude of the pilots for the failure to "rectify problems which affect their work area". This is a management failure.

[Jason70]

Well I’m another one that has been very disappointed with Qantas, I use to fly them because of my loyalty, but a few years ago I flew to the UK and the trip was a nightmare with very unhappy cabin crew. I was told by one of the crew when I asked for something that they were here for my safety and not comfort, well personally I think you should be offering both because service is and comfort is what will keep people returning.
Last year we flew to the US from Western Australia, I was that annoyed with Qantas that this time I decided to fly with Singapore Airlines via Singapore the trip was allot longer but I enjoyed every bit of it, the crew were 100% the comfort and condition of the plane was 100%.
I really hope Qantas get back to where they should be but if they remain on there current track I can see more & more people selecting other airlines. Qantas it’s no longer a monopoly pull your finger out.

[Mstr Caution]

That would be the same unwilling or resentful attitude which saved the company $8M & allowed the company to maintain the numbers & experience base in the Second Officer ranks!

[surfside6]

Qantas Business Model

1.Threaten and intimidate employees
2.Establish "silos" so that each unit competes for work and capital.Execs paid bonuses for reducing costs.
3.Delayed expenditure seen as a way to reduce costs in the "short term". Maintenance and ontime departures suffer
4.Jet Star established as a "transfer of business"model to further drive down costs.
5.Cost apportioning makes Jet Star appear successful
6.Exec bonuses rise exponentially.
7.Delayed expenditure sees hard product decline in quality
Result::Qantas is stuffed.Dixon flies off with $11million.
NB.The employees had nothing to do with this.Like the travelling public they are victims of it.
Blaming recalcitrant employees for Qantas' current plight is pure spin.Employees future is tied to the success of the business

[ditch handle]

surfside6.......

.......sums it up just about perfectly.

[Metro man]

However that does not explain why J* staff attrition has been double that of mainline for the last 5 years.

The low cost business model allows for employee turnover. Basically it is cheaper to train a flight attendent, have them leave after a few years and train another, than it is provide attractive terms and conditions so they will stay long term.

Managing staff turnover in order to stay on the right side of the "lift/drag" curve is part of the game. Managers need to know how little they can get away with paying before turnover costs becomes prohibitive.

[ditch handle]

The time is overdue for many QF people to realise that the bogey man is not management or JQ, it is competition.

No offence intended longjohn but I nearly pissed myself when I read this quote.

Clearly written by someone who has no idea what QF staff have had to endure over the last few years. None more so than their cabin crew.

Your argument longjohn is completely arse about so I'll correct it for you.

"It's about time management [QF] realised that the bogey man isn't their staff, it is the competition".

[Angle of Attack]

Both Ditch Handle and Longjohn are correct even though they disagree!

Yes I reckon the most imminent threat to QF is the competition, whether you like it or not Joe Public is gushing over the middle east carriers, Sing air, etc. which offer better connections more frequent flights, better service (thats the perception anyway), etc. I mean you just have to look how many flights Singair , Emirates have from each Aussie city and it dwarfs QF at the moment. Its all about perception not facts, but thats all that really matters to someone booking a ticket.

On the other hand yes there is areas QF should be doing to cut costs, but apart from a few token management positions announced earlier in the year the vast majority is being done at the coal face. Reduced catering, less quality of products, $hithouse amenity packs, skeleton groundstaff, I mean the list can go on and I won't keep going on.

Basically in the last "Sweet Spot" QF management was an unmitigated disaster, after all that profitability they still emerged with ageing crappy aircraft but great profits, especially in the management department.

There are areas that can make improved efficiency if only they would listen to the staff, they have lot's of words over engagement but not much action.
Anyway my 2 cents worth! Probably not even worth that seeing as there are no 2 cent coins anymore, gets rounded down to 0 cents!

[stubby jumbo]

'.........word just in from a mate who knows someone in HR- is that the Engagement results are out from BCG and surprise surprise they are:

( FROM MANAGEMENTS POINT OF VIEW)- WOEFUL!

( from Staffs point of view)-Spot on !

Prepare for the beatings aka Action Planning workshops designed to make everybody feel really warm & fuzzy about working for such a exceptional icon.

I still remember Dixon at some Road Show a few years back giving us the "we're in the sweet spot" routine! Yeah right.... you P-!-K. You had the chance -took the easy way out and screwed the airline into the bitumen.

I hate to say this -but I'm embarrassed to say in public that I work for Qantas-the brand has been so trashed by mismangement-that as soon as the name comes up -I dive for cover !

[kellykelpie]

It's a two way street Stubby Jumbo - the company needs to redefine who it is and what it stands for. That will be the easy part. The hard bit will be workplace reform - getting staff to really believe that things have to change in order to compete.

Working for Qantas doesn't mean what it used to mean. Folks are choosing it for lifestyle - motivation is waning, engagement slipping. Thank goodness they chose the right person to take this on.

[drshmoo]

Transition Layer - you still upset you didnt get to wear 4 bars?

[Mstr Caution]

The low cost business model allows for employee turnover.

JQ's level of turnover is very low by LCC standards......

But still twice as high as it's parent company!

There-in lies the problem. We have a mindset as pilots that we can't have a long and prosperous career with an airline because management modelling doesn't suit.

I believe the $8 million was generated though self interest, not generosity. Are you suggesting that AIPA would have offerred this saving had redundancies not been looming?

Redundancies weren't on the horizon post Sept 11th & SAR's. Admittedly the airlines all over were hurting. But employee goodwill toward the company afforded them a pilot pay freeze. End result, back to back record profits!!

The hard bit will be workplace reform - getting staff to really believe that things have to change in order to compete.

With due respect KellyKelpie, it's the staff that keep the operation on the rails. That being the motivation of the tech crew concerned & the professionalism they afford the company. Engagement has slipped over the last few years, but it has been inversely propotional to that of the engaement levels of those at J*. As mainline crew saw their promotional opportunities dissapear into the sunset with an orange tail on it.

[Pedota]

BA/QF Merge??

Looks like this topic may be back on the table . . .

BA may revive Qantas tie-up plans
The Age November 23, 2009.

British Airways could revive plans for a tie-up with Qantas Airways, using its merger with Spain's Iberia Lineas Aereas de Espana SA as a template, Chief Executive Officer Willie Walsh told the Financial Times.

The Iberia model would allow Qantas to retain a separate brand and home base, Walsh said, according to the report. There are no plans to pursue a tie-up at present, and the ``quite negative'' political reaction in Australia to a proposed deal last year would be a ``major hurdle,'' he added.

British Airways has agreed to combine with Iberia to boost its network amid a slump in international travel that contributed to a record first-half loss. The carrier abandoned merger talks with Qantas last year after the airlines failed to agree on who would control the new company.

``If I were Qantas, I wouldn't consider giving up control of my future to British Airways,'' said Jim Eckes, managing director of Hong Kong-based Indoswiss Aviation. ``The financial condition of Qantas is much better than that of British Airways, which is in a sad shape and getting worse each month.''

A Qantas spokeswoman declined to comment until the company had seen the Financial Times article.

The Sydney-based airline rose 1.5 per cent to $2.73 at 1:40 p.m. in trading in the city. It's gained 3.8 percent this year, compared with British Airways' 13 per cent rise.

BA-Qantas cooperation

At the time of the scuppered deal between the two airlines, British Airways, Europe's third-largest airline, said that talks had stumbled over ``key terms.'' The relative values of the airlines - Qantas has a higher market value while British Airways' revenue is about a third more than Qantas' - also proved a stumbling block.

The carriers have continued to cooperate on flights between Australia and the UK and as members of the Oneworld alliance.

Airlines need more cross-border consolidation to cure a ``sick'' industry struggling to reverse losses, the International Air Transport Association said on Nov. 16.

Qantas Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce, who's been in the top post at the Australian airline for almost a year, has committed to spending more on technology and reducing fuel usage to make the carrier more competitive.

The airline is targeting capital spending of $1.7 billion in the 2010 financial year and $2.7 billion in the following year, according to a statement today. It intends to buy 43 planes in the two years, it added.

BA and Iberia agreed on a $US7 billion ($7.6 billion) merger earlier this month, ending more than a year of talks. Under the all-share deal, British Airways investors will own about 55 percent of the business, to be led by Walsh. The merger won't be completed until late 2010 and can be called off by Iberia if BA fails to resolve pension-deficit issues.

British Airways said Nov. 6 that its main pension plan had a deficit of about 2.66 billion pounds ($4.4 billion), up from 1.17 billion pounds in March.

[surfside6]

A Disaster Becomes A Catastrophe

Willie Walsh needs his head examined.A merger with BA and Qantas would exacerbate the shortcomings of both airlines and accelerate their demise.
Walsh gets paid all that money to come up with an idiotic idea like that.
Maybe growing potatoes is his forte?

[GlobalMaster]

No doubt there are good reasons; as the Age article suggests, to:

• ‘revive BA Qantas tie up plans’

And the old chestnut of who gets ‘control,’ makes all mergers tough.

But, the Indoswiss Aviation statement by Jim Eckes:

• If I were Qantas, I wouldn't consider giving up control of my future to British Airways

Sounds like the the view of a ‘Star Lufthansa Groupie’ who doesn’t like the idea of the Union Jack again ruling the waves - sorry skies.

Given the history between Australian & the UK and between BA & Qantas, if any two full service airlines are going to be able to achieve engineering cost reductions via shared facilities and fleet, a QaBa has to have the best chance.

If the King is indeed dying, bring on the evolution, before the LCC revolution kills off the proud history of BA and Qantas and 'plane' travel becomes just like 'train' travel.

[surfside6]

BA QF Joint Services Agreement

The JSA already provides synergies for both airlines including engineering.
Every time BA gets into bed with Qantas Qantas gets rogered.BA is in dire straights and accordingly should not be trusted

[kellykelpie]

it's the staff that keep the operation on the rails. That being the motivation of the tech crew concerned & the professionalism they afford the company. Engagement has slipped over the last few years, but it has been inversely propotional to that of the engaement levels of those at J*. As mainline crew saw their promotional opportunities dissapear into the sunset with an orange tail on it.

I agree Master Caution. It is the lack of promotion or what I like to call the poverty of expectation that exists within QF. It is not normal outside QF to wait 15 - 20 years for a command. It is not normal for an F18 pilot to spend a decade as a second officer. It is not normal for a pilot to want to avoid promotion. But the QF system encourages that. The agreement penalises initiative in my opinion. It is the opposite of a meritocracy in many respects.

Moving forward, how can we create those opportunities again? We need leaders that understand how the culture is changing and we need workplace reform to be able to compete.

[blow.n.gasket]

so what's the answer Kelly????
or were you just posting a rhetorical question.

[kellykelpie]

so what's the answer Kelly????

Is there anyone that can explain (with a straight face) why QF pilots are taking flexi-lines whilst MOU spots sit vacant and JQ recruits? If you would like to get your staff to understand how to be engaged and compete, wouldn't you get them to work for an LCC. Cultural change begins when people question their own norms.

[blow.n.gasket]

Or as Captain A J stillwell, President of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots '67-'72 once said in a speech,

"It is possible to run an airline with bad management/pilot relationships. To run a successful airline requires 100% co-operation between management and pilots."

Unfortunately Qantas group management's concept of co-operation is "my way or the highway, and their concept of a highway is a one-way street!"

Kelly you are very quick to tell Qantas pilots to accept lower pay and conditions as a panacea for the company's ills and as the only way to salvation. I assume you are either management or a JetStar management wannabe corridor crawler. So tell me, since JetStar New Zealand offers lower pay and conditions than Jet Star Australia or Jetstar Singapore ,why haven't you gone and accepted a job with them . ??????

PS in answer to your question reference the MOU.
This is with a straight face,
ASK MANAGEMENT WHY THEY WON"T HONOUR IT!
PPS the answer has been given elsewhere.
Have a look at the changes in the Australian Industrial arena.
I suppose that's the pilot's fault too is it?