VB hires Ejet Direct Entry Captains
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sydney,NSW,Australia
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I didn't realise national joke started it, who in there right mind would pay for an endorsement on a gas chamber? but then if this is true, why have they since stopped it? I had a mate that went there a few years ago no money required for training!!! he was bonded but nothing required up front, and when he left they didnt chase him for it either.
I have no problem with a 2 year bond for recovery of costs, i do have a problem with charging for training, especially when you are then left with a lower than average wage at the end of it (for the era that is, now everyone has followed there example).
Pilots are there own worst enemy.
I have no problem with a 2 year bond for recovery of costs, i do have a problem with charging for training, especially when you are then left with a lower than average wage at the end of it (for the era that is, now everyone has followed there example).
Pilots are there own worst enemy.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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That's not correct, early days NJS never charged for ratings.
They went through a stage of brown nosing to Qantas and initially charged for B717 ratings on the Qantaslink services, but I think that has changed now.
They went through a stage of brown nosing to Qantas and initially charged for B717 ratings on the Qantaslink services, but I think that has changed now.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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VB hired four DECs. So what? This is Australia after all, I heard you chaps work for peanuts and let things like that happen to you without doing a thing.
As much as you critisise them, the French would never agree to such miserable practice, not when ripe F/Os are waiting to be upgraded. There is a lot to be learned from the French when it comes to not putting up with Sh.t.
You don't want VB to do this, strike or stop complaining.
As much as you critisise them, the French would never agree to such miserable practice, not when ripe F/Os are waiting to be upgraded. There is a lot to be learned from the French when it comes to not putting up with Sh.t.
You don't want VB to do this, strike or stop complaining.
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Captain Kellogs
My understanding from ex-military friends in VB was that they paid $30,000 and got $15,000 refund on their tax return for this training. They then got back around $6000 or $7000 Dollars a year retention bonus until it was stopped a few years ago. Thus, they got back more than the endorsement fee.
Don’t QF have a training wage until endorsed on a particular aircraft? This is what I am told by ex-military mates in QF (joined 2 and 3 decades ago, so maybe different now) – If correct this is same thing as paying for endorsement, as full wage is not paid until endorsed, thereby, remainder of full SO wage going towards the endorsement. Similarly, Cobhams (National Jet) did have a bond for three years and should you leave early you paid back pro-rata. This has happened to a few ex-military friends. Don’t know anyone in Jetstar or Tiger. But don’t they also pay for endorsements with tax refunds available? Come to think of it, all Pilots who paid for any flying lessons must not have been good enough for the military; otherwise they would have gone through the military. Isn’t that what some QF pilots try and tell you when an applicant fails QF selection? Well, these QF pilots must have paid for flying lessons, unless they went through the military. You must be ex-military too, Captain Kellogs?
So as far as I can ascertain, everyone pays for their endorsement within Australian major airlines in one way or another. Some get commands many years before others too. I don’t think VB was the first to pay for endorsement as Wellhung Unit points out, others through training wages and bonds were first.
I’ve got no axe to grind as I am now in my 60’s and retired with many ex-military friends (also in their 60’s and close to retiring ) still in QF, VB, Ansett (when operating) and Cobhams (National Jet) who have provided me with info.
My understanding from ex-military friends in VB was that they paid $30,000 and got $15,000 refund on their tax return for this training. They then got back around $6000 or $7000 Dollars a year retention bonus until it was stopped a few years ago. Thus, they got back more than the endorsement fee.
Don’t QF have a training wage until endorsed on a particular aircraft? This is what I am told by ex-military mates in QF (joined 2 and 3 decades ago, so maybe different now) – If correct this is same thing as paying for endorsement, as full wage is not paid until endorsed, thereby, remainder of full SO wage going towards the endorsement. Similarly, Cobhams (National Jet) did have a bond for three years and should you leave early you paid back pro-rata. This has happened to a few ex-military friends. Don’t know anyone in Jetstar or Tiger. But don’t they also pay for endorsements with tax refunds available? Come to think of it, all Pilots who paid for any flying lessons must not have been good enough for the military; otherwise they would have gone through the military. Isn’t that what some QF pilots try and tell you when an applicant fails QF selection? Well, these QF pilots must have paid for flying lessons, unless they went through the military. You must be ex-military too, Captain Kellogs?
So as far as I can ascertain, everyone pays for their endorsement within Australian major airlines in one way or another. Some get commands many years before others too. I don’t think VB was the first to pay for endorsement as Wellhung Unit points out, others through training wages and bonds were first.
I’ve got no axe to grind as I am now in my 60’s and retired with many ex-military friends (also in their 60’s and close to retiring ) still in QF, VB, Ansett (when operating) and Cobhams (National Jet) who have provided me with info.
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Fence Post, you make no sense.
Pilots hired in on a lowered training wage (such as QF) are PAID FROM DAY 1 of training.
Pilots who scab jobs by paying for endorsements do all their ground school and sim training on NO PAY.
QF - three months at 50k/yr + free endorsement = +$12,500
VB - no pay for training and pay for endorsement = -$30,000
How can you claim this is the same?
Captain K is right on the money. As long as VB, J* & Tiger pilots pay for endos, the industry will only ever get worse, and DEC on the JJ will continue.
Pilots hired in on a lowered training wage (such as QF) are PAID FROM DAY 1 of training.
Pilots who scab jobs by paying for endorsements do all their ground school and sim training on NO PAY.
QF - three months at 50k/yr + free endorsement = +$12,500
VB - no pay for training and pay for endorsement = -$30,000
How can you claim this is the same?
Captain K is right on the money. As long as VB, J* & Tiger pilots pay for endos, the industry will only ever get worse, and DEC on the JJ will continue.
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There is a lot to be learned from the French when it comes to not putting up with Sh.t.
Yeah, we've got a lot to learn from the Frogs
Industrial laws in THIS country make it very difficult to just "strike" (as you put it).
QF - three months at 50k/yr + free endorsement = +$12,50
The TSO (training) pay at Qantas is now about $37,000/yr.
I'm a bit confused if at Virgin you get paid from the day you walk in the door to commence your training. So you handover your hard-earned $35k for your endorsement, then they pay you a wage of approximately $22k (worked out at $85-90k/year for 3 months) while you're training?
Why not just handover the $13k difference and not get paid for the few months training?
I'm a bit confused if at Virgin you get paid from the day you walk in the door to commence your training. So you handover your hard-earned $35k for your endorsement, then they pay you a wage of approximately $22k (worked out at $85-90k/year for 3 months) while you're training?
Why not just handover the $13k difference and not get paid for the few months training?
Nice one guys... 
I just don't get the logic in borrowing (and paying interest) $35k and then getting paid a salary. Salary sacrifice would make more sense though.
I guess if you're already endorsed from a previous employer then it's a whole different story, and probably why the policy is the way it is.
I just don't get the logic in borrowing (and paying interest) $35k and then getting paid a salary. Salary sacrifice would make more sense though.
I guess if you're already endorsed from a previous employer then it's a whole different story, and probably why the policy is the way it is.
transition layer
I am not sure that what are you talking about is correct
You say...
I'm a bit confused if at Virgin you get paid from the day you walk in the door to commence your training. So you handover your hard-earned $35k for your endorsement, then they pay you a wage of approximately $22k (worked out at $85-90k/year for 3 months) while you're training?
Why not just handover the $13k difference and not get paid for the few months training?
Unless I am mistaken you either pay the 30 grand (not 35) for your endorsement or you get paid a training wage.
If you joined with an endorsement I understand that you are on full pay from day 1
I am not sure that what are you talking about is correct
You say...
I'm a bit confused if at Virgin you get paid from the day you walk in the door to commence your training. So you handover your hard-earned $35k for your endorsement, then they pay you a wage of approximately $22k (worked out at $85-90k/year for 3 months) while you're training?
Why not just handover the $13k difference and not get paid for the few months training?
Unless I am mistaken you either pay the 30 grand (not 35) for your endorsement or you get paid a training wage.
If you joined with an endorsement I understand that you are on full pay from day 1
Unless I am mistaken you either pay the 30 grand (not 35) for your endorsement or you get paid a training wage.
