Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Another Qantas incident

Old 4th Nov 2009, 14:11
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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He(the psycologist) apparently investigated a number of wheels up incidents, and remarked that in almost every occasion the crew had gone through the checklist and called "gear down three greens" and then landed with no wheels.
And now we mindlessly (obviously not meant to be mindlessly) say "CHECKED" to every mode annunciation change. We do so much unnecessary yabbering that it is easy to see why stuff is missed.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 15:57
  #82 (permalink)  
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"There was no flight safety issue.

The incident was reported to the ATSB and the pilots were stood down."

Why stand them down then?
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 17:52
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Farrell,

There has already been a lot of specualtion and trial by media about this incident. With an investigation pending (or underway), if you were one of the pilots involved, would you really feel on top of your game and ready to go to work??
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 18:59
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Loved the media spin last night in response to the companies statement of a 'brief communication breakdown'. Sandra Sully seemed to enjoy stating that both pilots thought the other pilot had put the wheels down. This is so absurd and so frustrating. Sure I understand that the company needs to give a statement to the media in terms that the public can understand, but surely they could have given something a little more concise (obviously with the investigation underway they cannot reveal too much).
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 19:30
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Seems to me as a travelling bystander with family that work in an airline that pilots think the media is at fault for reporting that the A.T.S.B is doing an investigation.

If they weren't doing that, then their wouldn't be any reporters writing stories. Right. So the question is should these pilots be investigated. Not how stupid the reporters are. It seems to me this is about how stupid the pilots were unless there is some other explanation for what happened, and whatever it was, dont the SLF have the right to be told about it. I'm sick of the crap in public life, even out here, where everything that goes wrong in local government is the fault of The Land or the Highlands Times for reporting that the councillors lost tens of millions of rate payer funds. Its the fcking fault of the idiots running the show, not the papers. If someone flies badly, its the fault of the pilot, not the dumb bimbo on television.

Should this be done in secret. If something goes wrong in an airline I want to know what it was, not have it hidden away. When the fire fighters screwed up, and people died in the Canberra fires down the road from here everyone who was threatened by the risk of bushfires wanted to know all about the clowns that did squat while everything went out of control for half a day of stuffing around and it all went up in flames. Same with pilots who apparently forget what they are doing. Who fkd up and how is the only thing that matters.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 20:04
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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They were probably too busy working out their new crew schedules on their laptops to even notice that the gear wasn't down........ yeah right.

The safety backups worked and they reacted accordingly.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 20:37
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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To those who say that this incident is a non event, I beg to differ.

The holes in the Swiss cheese almost lined up. The GPWS went off.

Now suppose that the GPWS had failed due to inadequate maintenance, or the crew were busy dealing with some other issue caused by inadequate maintenance and ignored the warning?

Qantas obviously does not subscribe to the "holes in the cheese" theory of accident prevention because they have not done their utmost to close all the holes.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 20:53
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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The holes in the Swiss cheese
I wonder how the Swiss feel about being associated with so many air disasters. Not very PC always blaming the Swiss.

Maybe the should call it Chinese Cheese. The Chinese crash a lot more than the Swiss.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 21:15
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Denabol et al.
First of all the investigation is pending, so making misleading or ill-informed malicious statements (which, at times, the media and others do on here) without the full facts is borderline defamation.
Secondly there appears to be unwarranted prejudice against QF. When a simple and necessary diversion is required it makes front page news. However, when other carriers have had major incidents, the other day where an aircraft landed on a taxiway and earlier this year in melbourne a tail strike, little to no information is reported. Why?
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 21:17
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder how the Swiss feel about being associated with so many air disasters.
Maybe the Swiss should stop making cheese with holes in it.


It seems to me this is about how stupid the pilots were unless there is some other explanation for what happened
Well maybe, but for stupid people, they did manage to get a fairly complicated jet from A to B. They did have a problem - self induced although maybe chinese cheese was involved - recovered safely and made it to the destination safely. Not bad for stupid people......
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 21:18
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Fratemate.

Well put. I think all pilots are interested to see how the chain of events occured so they can learn something. This is how aviation is.

The journos and Hate Qantas push are just here for a bit of sensation on a slow news week, ( and by hell it IS a slow news week) and a snigger.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 21:25
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Sunfish,

To quote the ATSB report:

"During the commencement of the missed approach the "too low gear" GPWS warning activated." (my bold)

So the GPWS did not cause them to do the go around they were already doing it.

Come back when you know what you are talking about and stop bashing Qantas crews with comments like:

Now suppose....crew were busy dealing with some other issue caused by inadequate maintenance and ignored the warning?
GIVE ME STRENGTH!! Yeah, just ignore warnings.. are you serious?

This incident is not a non event, a mistake was made, corrected, and an investigation will follow to determine reasons in order to help the said mistake not happen again and life will go on. Building straw men won't help anyone.

Last edited by regitaekilthgiwt; 4th Nov 2009 at 21:37.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 21:27
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Denabol,

I dont think any of us have any issue with the facts being reported. Problem is that at this stage the only facts out are that a 767 did a missed approach because of a configuration warning, and that its being investigated.
So when it's reported on the news that the pilots thought the other one had put the gear down, that the plane wasn't responding to inputs after setting go around thrust, that the pilots had been fired etc etc, you can see why we'd have a go at the media. Until the ATSB report is out its a best purely speculative and shows the media not only don't know what happened, but also have no idea about the operation or the investigative process. Why not wait until the ATSB report is out before we lump the guys in with the clowns in local government :P
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 21:28
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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The facts

Debanol,


Seems to me as a travelling bystander with family that work in an airline that pilots think the media is at fault for reporting that the A.T.S.B is doing an investigation.

If they weren't doing that, then their wouldn't be any reporters writing stories. Right. So the question is should these pilots be investigated. Not how stupid the reporters are.
No pilot worth his/her salt would object to the press reporting of an ATSB investigation. What is objectionable is the inuendo and sensationalism that goes with it. If the press just stuck to the facts all they would have to work with is the ATSB extract (linked above) and any possible response by Qantas. The problem with that is it would be a little five line filler story or 5 second read by the presenter before moving onto other things. To be "newsworthy" an incident has to be much more sensational than that.

The incident is being investigated, not the pilots. The crew have been stood down as per normal procedure in these cases. There is a proven process to follow when these things happen, it is not very exciting but the problem is when reported accurately it does not make very good copy.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 21:45
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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The REAL facts

um sorry carbonneutral,

Problem is that at this stage the only facts out are that a 767 did a missed approach because of a configuration warning, and that its being investigated.
Unless you have some inside facts which you may well have, the only facts in public that I am aware of at the moment are off the ATSB website which state:

Passing 700 ft on approach into Sydney, the crew commenced a missed approach due to the aircraft being incorrectly configured for landing. During the commencement of the missed approach the "too low gear" GPWS warning activated.
From that report there is no mention of the crew reacting to a warning and initiating a go around. The warning was "TOO LOW GEAR" this is very different to the "GEAR NOT DOWN" warning that is received when landing flaps are selected and any of the landing gear is not down and locked.


I agree with the rest of your post Carbonn. and also wish the media would just report the facts -dreaming-. I don't think everyones speculation on this site does any good on that side of things, but it will always happen and can't be helped.



To others..

I didn't even know the Chinese made cheese
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 21:59
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever the cause, if crew are screwing up and there are factors relating to the way airlines are being run these days, the only way things will change is if a bit if dirty laundry gets aired.

The public have to know what they are getting with this era of modern airline management.. only then will management skip to the popular beat.

Or blame the pilots, either way.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 22:26
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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regitaekilthgiwt,

Yep, sorry, no inside info, just a poor choice of words I'd fit in pretty well with these reporters...
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 22:34
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Haha, yeah now worries, wasn't meant to be a nasty reply, just trying to keep the facts staight! You are much more humble than any reporter in admitting poor choice of words Cheers mate
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 22:51
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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I think its pretty obvious that SOMETHING went wrong in that cockpit, the ATSB investigation will determine what it was, end of story.

My concern is the statement from QANTAS that it wasnt a safety issue. YES IT WAS. This is very indicative of the culture that has become so embedded in Qantas managment and should be of concern to everyone.

I couldnt give a toss who wrote the story, or what their aviation background is, but when they quote Qantas stating an obvious falsehood I will sit up, take notice and wonder why CASA and/or the ATSB arent correcting the public record.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 23:11
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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If someone flies badly, its the fault of the pilot,
Ummmmm, stick to being
a travelling bystander
mate, you obviously don't understand anything about how aviation became as safe as it is.
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