Ansett gone .......but ?
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From memory it was called ''Ansair''
Indeed.
Originally seat manufacturer ChromeSteel, took over by Ansett and rebadged Ansair, heavily involved in various forms of seating (transportation and building), bus and office interiors manufacture.
Sold to Austral Pacific Group post '89 which ran the P&L into the ground and the shell eventually was wound up.
The remnants of the seating business was re-established by several folk who either worked for, or were associated with, Ansair and continues as Seats of Australia in Tullamarine.
If anyone still operates with Ansair aircraft seats and needs information I can put you on to a chap who holds the bulk of the design data for parts etc.
Indeed.
Originally seat manufacturer ChromeSteel, took over by Ansett and rebadged Ansair, heavily involved in various forms of seating (transportation and building), bus and office interiors manufacture.
Sold to Austral Pacific Group post '89 which ran the P&L into the ground and the shell eventually was wound up.
The remnants of the seating business was re-established by several folk who either worked for, or were associated with, Ansair and continues as Seats of Australia in Tullamarine.
If anyone still operates with Ansair aircraft seats and needs information I can put you on to a chap who holds the bulk of the design data for parts etc.
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ANSW was a good example of a finely tuned, profitable commercial operation sent into the red by the Fat Man. It owned all its F27s, most of them (the -500s) relatively new, which were about as close to a perfect fit for its large network as an operator could ask for.
The Fat Man presented them with the unasked for F50s - and the costs of paying for their leases. And into the bargain, he opted for the 'cheap and cheerful' AN version (like no other F50 in the world) - without an APU - which was a bit like buying a new limo today to use to carry paying customers in really hot conditions and having the distributor remove the air con, to say nothing of the problems with repeatedly powering up and powering down an aircraft that ran almost everything on AC electrical systems.
Why buy (or lease, actually) unnecessary new aircraft? Shades of Lucius Tan at Philippine Airlines, because when you buy a swag of new aeroplanes, you sell (and pocket the cash) the wholly owned old ones. And of course, someone (I wonder who?) pockets the 2% commission on the price of the new ones.
The Fat Man presented them with the unasked for F50s - and the costs of paying for their leases. And into the bargain, he opted for the 'cheap and cheerful' AN version (like no other F50 in the world) - without an APU - which was a bit like buying a new limo today to use to carry paying customers in really hot conditions and having the distributor remove the air con, to say nothing of the problems with repeatedly powering up and powering down an aircraft that ran almost everything on AC electrical systems.
Why buy (or lease, actually) unnecessary new aircraft? Shades of Lucius Tan at Philippine Airlines, because when you buy a swag of new aeroplanes, you sell (and pocket the cash) the wholly owned old ones. And of course, someone (I wonder who?) pockets the 2% commission on the price of the new ones.
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Yes, all true, and he ordered them, and the A320s although Ansett had previously ''GONE BOEING'' against the advice of Engineering, Flight Operations and everyone else, to please the Europeans so hopefully (him looking at HIS bigger picture NOT Ansett) the Europeans would look more favourably on his beloved TNT. 
Evertonian
The way I heard it, after he'd ordered the A320's, Engineering was told to make them "fit" what we needed.
Is now a good time to mention how the A320's couldn't replace the 727LR's across the Nullabor, so the fat man got his mate to change the rules so it would?
Is now a good time to mention how the A320's couldn't replace the 727LR's across the Nullabor, so the fat man got his mate to change the rules so it would?
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The way I heard it, after he'd ordered the A320's, Engineering was told to make them "fit" what we needed.
Is now a good time to mention how the A320's couldn't replace the 727LR's across the Nullabor, so the fat man got his mate to change the rules so it would?
Whispering "T" Jet
Why buy (or lease, actually) unnecessary new aircraft?
advised by just about everyone NOT to get the A320s, F50s and also the BAe146, but he ignored all the advice.
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Ansett spent a considerable amount of its time as an appendage to a wider business goal.
The BAE146 was not a great aircraft for AN. But for TNT in Europe it was the only solution. Abeles managed to shut out the opposition in the night freight game in Europe for several years by virtually owning the production line at Hatfield. Throwing a few leftovers to AN was a small price to pay in view of the bigger picture.
Same goes for ANI pulling out of TPE despite making money on the service. News was desperate to get Star TV into China but only if the company and its affiliates severed business ties with ROC.
AN was not the core business in its later years and suffered as a result.
The BAE146 was not a great aircraft for AN. But for TNT in Europe it was the only solution. Abeles managed to shut out the opposition in the night freight game in Europe for several years by virtually owning the production line at Hatfield. Throwing a few leftovers to AN was a small price to pay in view of the bigger picture.
Same goes for ANI pulling out of TPE despite making money on the service. News was desperate to get Star TV into China but only if the company and its affiliates severed business ties with ROC.
AN was not the core business in its later years and suffered as a result.
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I think all quite true Professor, but if it hadn't been for the minister for transport insisting that ANZ be permitted to exercise their option (and he could have knocked it back in the national interest), and the SQ purchase had gone ahead (and maybe even if it hadn't gone ahead), then it would have been a very different picture.
However that all comes under the category of "that's life". Life is a $hit sandwich; the more bread you have, the less $hit you have to eat!
However that all comes under the category of "that's life". Life is a $hit sandwich; the more bread you have, the less $hit you have to eat!
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...yes quite right ZZ....and the comments of deals done by Sir Pete are correct also.....but thats all neither here or there....the owners can do these things to make the business more suitable to them or get rid of of assets that don't suit them anymore....
...companies do this all the time....buying the A320 was dumb at first it seemed...but it seems it was a good move after all, the 320 is a very popular aircraft, err jet*, tiger, now even VB is thinking about it, and around the world its a winner...
...but this thread was about Ansett going under, and it went under while ANZ had their grubby hands on all the levers, and the Aust gov with the gross incopetence of Anderson, Moore-Wiltons total bias for QF and Trickies massive lobbying swayed the Government to let Ansett die...
...after all the Australian givernment should have chaised ANZ...but ANZ payed 150mill in graft money for the deal that they be left alone and not be taken to court....so the collusion of the Aust and NZ gov....as the then Helen Clarke said that Ansett was now the matter for the Australian Government, not the responsibility of the New Zealand one.
So as Howard said...the Australian gov is not in the airline business...not like with QF as they had a 750mill stake in it with the merger with Australian...or the auto industry...or his brother that had trouble...so Ansett was murdered...as Howard told SQ not to touch Ansett under any circumstances....
...this was brought out on 3AW, when Steve Bracks went to Singers to speak to SQ...they said they were totally confused, here the Vic gov wants us to buy but the Feds are saying stay away....the question is WHY....well...all to protect Qantas...I say the Australian gov was calpable after the event, they had no right to protect Qantas...Ansett should have been offered for sale to SQ after that debacle.....
...companies do this all the time....buying the A320 was dumb at first it seemed...but it seems it was a good move after all, the 320 is a very popular aircraft, err jet*, tiger, now even VB is thinking about it, and around the world its a winner...
...but this thread was about Ansett going under, and it went under while ANZ had their grubby hands on all the levers, and the Aust gov with the gross incopetence of Anderson, Moore-Wiltons total bias for QF and Trickies massive lobbying swayed the Government to let Ansett die...
...after all the Australian givernment should have chaised ANZ...but ANZ payed 150mill in graft money for the deal that they be left alone and not be taken to court....so the collusion of the Aust and NZ gov....as the then Helen Clarke said that Ansett was now the matter for the Australian Government, not the responsibility of the New Zealand one.
So as Howard said...the Australian gov is not in the airline business...not like with QF as they had a 750mill stake in it with the merger with Australian...or the auto industry...or his brother that had trouble...so Ansett was murdered...as Howard told SQ not to touch Ansett under any circumstances....
...this was brought out on 3AW, when Steve Bracks went to Singers to speak to SQ...they said they were totally confused, here the Vic gov wants us to buy but the Feds are saying stay away....the question is WHY....well...all to protect Qantas...I say the Australian gov was calpable after the event, they had no right to protect Qantas...Ansett should have been offered for sale to SQ after that debacle.....
There was a confusing about-face at the time with the Australian government and Singapore's investment in AN.
Snippets of information emerged of Singaporian military and industrial espionage against Australia at around the timeframe we are discussing.
They were caught red handed spying against a army signals and electronic warfare facility. And commercially, it never came out. But there was significant backlash against Singapore from the top echelons of Australian business.
And then it all went quiet. The Singaporians lost a billion dollars.
Snippets of information emerged of Singaporian military and industrial espionage against Australia at around the timeframe we are discussing.
They were caught red handed spying against a army signals and electronic warfare facility. And commercially, it never came out. But there was significant backlash against Singapore from the top echelons of Australian business.
And then it all went quiet. The Singaporians lost a billion dollars.
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Correct... Ansair
Excellent coach building company that were built to last! Excellent machines that ran and ran and ran, even with the ****e kicked out of them
Excellent coach building company that were built to last! Excellent machines that ran and ran and ran, even with the ****e kicked out of them
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Ansair was based in Garden Drive Tullamarine next door to the Engine Overhaul Shop.
Previously at Essendon Airport for many years and, subsequently, Sunshine, eventually deteriorating into oblivion.
Previously at Essendon Airport for many years and, subsequently, Sunshine, eventually deteriorating into oblivion.
Evertonian
but it seems it was a good move after all, the 320 is a very popular aircraft, err jet*, tiger, now even VB is thinking about it, and around the world its a winner...
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Didn't you read earlier Richo?
SQ would never have taken over AN directly.
That would have meant taking over an Airline with the top 3 levels of management totally innefectual and more interested in building their own castles over and above the welfare of the Airline.
That would have been a very messy operation, hence with 2 senior board members installed in NZ, push for them to take it over - it was a given they would collapse it due to NZ inneptitude and then ride in like a knight on a white charger and ressurect the beast without losing face - not to mention not having to pay out the contracts of the top 3 levels.
Tea towel wearing people who clean their rugs by banging them with their heads and had obviously belted a bad attitude into themselves by doing so ruined the plan the night before Ansett self immolated.
SQ stood back then - ran under the radar rather than lose face in an industry that had gone into recession overnight. Also you can't tell me that that other magnate and his mate that were involved in the alleged resurrection and spun the thing out to the point that all other possible consortiums ran out of fighting funds and finally walked away were not funded by SQ - probably to the tune of millions.
The thing SQ wanted and still desire with a passion are the rights AN held to the pacific cash bonanza. i feel the horse has now bolted.
Isn't it nice whe people like the Fat Man, the Bodgie and the introduced carnivourous pests can screw with the lives of people like you and me?
Be well aware Richo.
There were many more forces in play over and above the standard pap someone who has come in after the time could possibly be aware of. No shame there. We who were in the middle could not believe what we were hearing.
It was an Empire of Evil, started by TNT/News and their head scumbags and magnified by Australia's most corrupt Prime Masturbator of all time.
The whole thing was a circle jerk of epic proportion.
Best regards
EWL
SQ would never have taken over AN directly.
That would have meant taking over an Airline with the top 3 levels of management totally innefectual and more interested in building their own castles over and above the welfare of the Airline.
That would have been a very messy operation, hence with 2 senior board members installed in NZ, push for them to take it over - it was a given they would collapse it due to NZ inneptitude and then ride in like a knight on a white charger and ressurect the beast without losing face - not to mention not having to pay out the contracts of the top 3 levels.
Tea towel wearing people who clean their rugs by banging them with their heads and had obviously belted a bad attitude into themselves by doing so ruined the plan the night before Ansett self immolated.
SQ stood back then - ran under the radar rather than lose face in an industry that had gone into recession overnight. Also you can't tell me that that other magnate and his mate that were involved in the alleged resurrection and spun the thing out to the point that all other possible consortiums ran out of fighting funds and finally walked away were not funded by SQ - probably to the tune of millions.
The thing SQ wanted and still desire with a passion are the rights AN held to the pacific cash bonanza. i feel the horse has now bolted.
Isn't it nice whe people like the Fat Man, the Bodgie and the introduced carnivourous pests can screw with the lives of people like you and me?
Be well aware Richo.
There were many more forces in play over and above the standard pap someone who has come in after the time could possibly be aware of. No shame there. We who were in the middle could not believe what we were hearing.
It was an Empire of Evil, started by TNT/News and their head scumbags and magnified by Australia's most corrupt Prime Masturbator of all time.
The whole thing was a circle jerk of epic proportion.
Best regards
EWL
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...well maybe, maybe not Loco....I don't know, what would have happened after Ansett was cast aside by ANZ....it was all uncharted waters....
...but the fact is that ANZ were at the controls at the disaster point and the Aust Gov with trickie-dickie were up to there necks in murdering Ansett....Qantas went on to prosperity at the expense of Ansett's 16,000 employees...
I heard rumors of some white knight wanting to buy into Ansett...but the then prized slime ACTU pres. Combet... put an end to that as there was not going to be any compromises to wages and conditions under a new management....so thank-you ACTU...
...yes....9/11 couldn't have come at worse time....who would have figured that one....so everyone got gun-shy and investment in airlines vapourised over night...
Sir Peter was gone...TNT wanted out so they sold...no problem there....NEWS said we want out and sighted SQ not ANZ...well the rest I've been over....
...but the fact is that ANZ were at the controls at the disaster point and the Aust Gov with trickie-dickie were up to there necks in murdering Ansett....Qantas went on to prosperity at the expense of Ansett's 16,000 employees...
I heard rumors of some white knight wanting to buy into Ansett...but the then prized slime ACTU pres. Combet... put an end to that as there was not going to be any compromises to wages and conditions under a new management....so thank-you ACTU...
...yes....9/11 couldn't have come at worse time....who would have figured that one....so everyone got gun-shy and investment in airlines vapourised over night...
Sir Peter was gone...TNT wanted out so they sold...no problem there....NEWS said we want out and sighted SQ not ANZ...well the rest I've been over....
Whispering "T" Jet
Who cares what or who caused Ansett's demise?
Like the horse and cart - Ansett ain't coming back.
Abeles is dead, Bob Hawke is a nobody (can't even get a gig these days giving inspirational speeches) and the rest is pure speculation!
Like the horse and cart - Ansett ain't coming back.
Abeles is dead, Bob Hawke is a nobody (can't even get a gig these days giving inspirational speeches) and the rest is pure speculation!