Melbourne LMO Merger

[QF94]

I suppose the transition from dealing with foreign, procedures,air and cabin crew and maint watch when things go pear shaped,to now tossing a chock and a fast lap of the airframe must be a bit demoralising to say the least.Its no wonder the brothers seem so depressed,or is it just a nightshift thing.HTFU.

It's not just the dealing with the foreign operators, procedures, air and cabin crew, and maintenance watch. It's the fact that there was a variety of work, a variety of problems and a variety of fixes that added to one's experience, and also a sense of accomplishment.

As for the fast lap around the airframe and chocks in, this was commonplace on an Asiana or Vietnam 777 that was in for about 90 minutes.

The brothers as you call them seem depressed because all of that work that kept everyone gainfully employed has now been taken off them and are now being herded to base to backfill the positions that have gone to A380.

If it's a night shift thing. So what. If you don't have to do it, you're better off, health wise and family wise. If there is no choice but to do it, then so be it. But the point is that the choice has been taken away together with the work that was bringing in $$$$$ to S.I.T.

[Bootstrap1]

Have the 12 been chosen to go to base yet. And if so who might they be? Is it last in first out, or least time in company or single licence types that are no longer in use?

[hewlett]

QF94 we are on the same page.

[QF94]

Have the 12 been chosen to go to base yet. And if so who might they be? Is it last in first out, or least time in company or single licence types that are no longer in use?

Bootstrap, the 12 have been chosen, but in usual QF fashion, it's a mishmash of how they arrived at their conclusion and who was to go.

It was basically those that had credits outstanding with a single category licence. Even included guys who had done JTP courses. Yes, after the management clamped down on allowing guys going for SOE, they decided to include non-company training type courses, and this was part of their culling process.

[600ft-lb]

All of this intra-port whinging leads me to agree with the management decision to merge the bases.

Merging of the the bases will stop this US vs THEM goings on.

We aren't each others enemy, we're colleagues. Some of you lot really are short sighted.

[QF94]

All of this intra-port whinging leads me to agree with the management decision to merge the bases.

Merging of the the bases will stop this US vs THEM goings on.

We aren't each others enemy, we're colleagues. Some of you lot really are short sighted.

You mean like the merging of TN & QF? 16 years after the merger it's still red team and blue team, not purple which it's supposed to be if properly blended.

As we've seen over the years, we have domestic DMM's running international ops and international DMM's running domestic ops, in SYD anyway. The trains of thought are on different tracks heading in different directions.

Merging of the bases will NOT stop the US vs THEM goings on. Too many people have a mindset of what was once, and won't change. Also, may people have gripes from years gone by.

To be honest, it's management that is short-sighted thinking they can herd people together and make an efficient operation. Unfortunately, management of past and present have no idea on what to do and how to do it. They seem to rehash old ideas and think they can make it work better. This is fantasy land. I'll use Sydney as an example. International operations are different to domestic operations, which are different to base operations. There is no standardisation of operations and procedures between the bases. Domestics have single-person transits, International have two-person transits, and the guys doing the transits do the defects. Domestics have a Rover to fix defects. Domestics have QF only aeroplanes, International have QF and whatever is left of customer aircraft. Base have aircraft come in and have defect rectification done at the hangars.

I guess your view 6000ft-lb is as short-sighted as you thinks ours is, and maybe even more short-sighted than that of management.

[AtALoss]

You have an insight not many around here have. I congratulate you sir.

[hewlett]

Again QF94,the sentiments of many in words.Shame management is not up to the task.It is the same in other ports.Well put!

[dom butt monkey]

so whats the fix QF94and i agree with what you are saying,if we wait for a generational change unfortunally the youger ones get caught up with the older ones way of thinking and the divison continues......hence the dom butt monkey

[Oh Me Oh My]

I was talking to an older guy in our section and he made the quote "The more things change, the more they remain the same" seems whoever is running the show wants to keep the same attitude as the previous clowns and the same divide up between us (by the way if we assist this process we only assist management in treating us the way they do)
My opinion (for what its worth) is that we should concentrate on realizing that we are all equal, that we should support each other in whatever workplace that way when management attack one section they attack all. Together we stand, divided we fall. EBA IX is just around the corner.

For my domestic brothers out there, I heard from an office stoolie that No Man Transit is back on the agenda for the new year, can this be confirmed ?

[QF94]

so whats the fix QF94and i agree with what you are saying,if we wait for a generational change unfortunally the youger ones get caught up with the older ones way of thinking and the divison continues......hence the dom butt monkey

The only true fix is one that doesn't soley involve cost cutting and "efficiencies". It is accepted that a business has to make a profit and be as efficient as possible, but one must also remember that the aviation/airline industry is an expensive business to be in, no matter how efficient and low-cost you try to make it. Jetstar pays the same price for its parts, fuel etc to put it in the air as QANTAS does, albeit they pay less to their staff. This in turn leads to higher staff turnover. So there is no real cost saving, and I believe it's pretty well accepted that QF shoulders much of JQ's (international anyway) maintenance costs.

The real fix lies in the true long-sightedness of the company, and this requires a change in mindset of the management for starters. Whilst there continues to be the short-term gain for profits and bonuses, this will not change. There is no point in having large sums of money in the kitty while the company crumbles around you, just so you can show your shareholders what a good money maker and saver you are.

New equipment is needed, and the A380 is not really the answer to the long-haul sectors, as has been proven of late.

Not just long sightedness is needed, but smart thinking and good management. I mean management like you would manage your own household budget, not just because you have the title of a manager.

Also, the thing underpinning smart management is accountability and responsibility. Upper management can cost the company tens of millions for their stupidity, but there is no accountability for their actions. Yet, if you as a LAME/AME cause a delay for some minor misjudgement, you have hell to pay for because of a silly 5-10 minute delay and the buck-passing starts.

Also, management have shown they really have no time for the real problems, but try to mask them until they move onto another section.

Morale is the biggest problem within the company. Whilst there is low morale, there is no trust, and without trust there is no respect from either side of the divide.

In short, there is no single answer, but a series of changes that need to be in place, otherwise, the QANTAS as we know it today will be forever.

[QF94]

I was talking to an older guy in our section and he made the quote "The more things change, the more they remain the same" seems whoever is running the show wants to keep the same attitude as the previous clowns and the same divide up between us (by the way if we assist this process we only assist management in treating us the way they do)

Couldn't have said it better myself. No matter what process is brought into place, planes come in, they get serviced/inspected and sent on their merry way again. This has never changed and will never change (in our lifetime anyway). Aircraft are machines, and they can't fix themselves, yet. They still need human input to maintain them, and you can't tell me that if a pilot does a walk around, he won't find a problem that he can't fix. He'll be doing a "D" check on his walkaround. Imagine there are no LAME's on a transit, and the pilot radios back to the office and says he has a whole list of defects that need to be looked at 20-30 minutes prior to departure. Wheel/brake change, missing panel, etc.

I can't see it happening, but who knows what Bozo the clown making the decisions will come up with?

[KrispyKreme]

have to agree now with 600ft-lb, maybe to once and for all to stop this stupid US Vs Them is to make everyone reapply for there jobs in each of the section to start from scratch, lets just shuffle the pack a bit and see were the cards fall

Its like being back at school sometimes , grow ups guys

[QF94]

have to agree now with 600ft-lb, maybe to once and for all to stop this stupid US Vs Them is to make everyone reapply for there jobs in each of the section to start from scratch, lets just shuffle the pack a bit and see were the cards fall

Its like being back at school sometimes , grow ups guys

Couldn't agree more Krispy. All of management should have to reapply for their jobs and actually prove their credentials to show they can do the job they're actually employed to do. That is to manage their sections to sustainable levels and actually keep them running. Not running them into the ground.

Without good and loyal staff, there simply wouldn't be a company or business. Management make lots of decisions, but it's the people at grass-roots level that keep the company tickng over. Whether a manager is present for the day or not actaully makes no difference to the operations. The staff do what they're employed to do, whether it be maintaining aircraft, checking in passengers, cleaning aircraft, dumping toilets, flying the aircraft, serving passengers etc, etc. The job is still the same regardless of management's policies and procedures. No staff = no business. Happy staff = very profitable business. Low-moraled staff = business (barely).

For as long as there is a buggery campaign (silent or otherwise) and management pitting one section against another, there will always be an US vs THEM situation, as it's not in management's favour to have a united workforce. The LAME war of 2008 proved that.

[Ngineer]

Problems within engineering will not be fixed in a short to medium time frame. Come next EBA, the repercussions will have many questions being asked as to what is going on.
Give it time, and a few more bodies will come floating by.......

[dom butt monkey]

yes qf94 i agree with what you say...and it won't matter when we start launching aircraft straight up we will be still here and a different management team will be telling us to do it this way,mind you we will of done that way before but this time it will be different.
as for the no lame preflt yes i think that will be back and with the new guy starting in feb i think we will see some changes....i beleive the domestic aircraft cleaners/aircraft workers are at aviation aust. getting task trained is this the start of "cat A" .....yep i think our world is about to change,dont forget the PPM was change in 2003 to include the "no lame preflt" but was never acted upon

[QF94]

as for the no lame preflt yes i think that will be back and with the new guy starting in feb i think we will see some changes....i beleive the domestic aircraft cleaners/aircraft workers are at aviation aust. getting task trained is this the start of "cat A" .....yep i think our world is about to change,dont forget the PPM was change in 2003 to include the "no lame preflt" but was never acted upon

domm butt monkey, I recall that when the then line manager Mr Deahm would come around to our section and say that QF will have no need for white shirts out on the tarmac. He is no longer around, nor those that succeeded him. It's 6 years since the PPM has changed to remove LAME's from the tarmac. I still can't see how cleaners, as short staffed as they are, are going to cope with the additional workload of are going to cope with the arrivals/departures, unless more are going to be employed, which kind of defeats the purpose of cutting the workforce or cutting costs to engineering.

It may be a domestic issue that they want LAME's replaced by cleaners/aircraft workers. I don't know how long it will last, if it does, but there will be major problems. Training people for a few days at Aviation Australia will not thoroughly prepare people with no aircraft maintenance background to arrive and depart aircraft. This task is an integrated task, and simply cannot be categorised to arrival, transit, defect rectification (if any), preflight, departure. It sounds great in theory, but we all know in practice it's not that easy, especially when people with next to no training are ariving and departing aircraft.

Speaking from an S.I.T. point of view, United Airlines tried this a few years ago, and it wasn't long before they reverted back to having the LAME's doing the transits and departures due to the communication problem between incoming pilot trying to advise of a problem, and that problem being relayed to engineering and an engineer finally coming to the aeroplane to see what was wrong. It was a costly exercise due to the delays or missed reports. Every airline at S.I.T. and I would safely say around the country in the least, have all transits/PREFLTS conducted by LAME's.

Anyway, the management team always seem to know better and think they can avoid the mistakes of others and make things work. When they don't, out comes the finger and the blaming starts because it wasn't given a chance to work.

We'll just have to wait and see what 2010 holds in store and what great big changes are going to take place.

[Black Hands]

"G'day Skipper, I just happened to be walking past and noticed:

Your 737 l/e slat actuators appear to have some evidence of leakage...
Your 737 HF antenna mylar tape appears to be lifting...
Your 737 MLG vapour barrier appears to be cracked...
Your 737 fuel stick decals appear to be illegible...
Your 767 appears to have a nicked fan blade in the l/h engine...
Your 767 appears to have evidence of fluid leaking from the r/h mlg oleo...
Your 767 appears to have hydraulic fluid leaking from the hydraulic service panel...
Your 767 appears to have a waste or water service panel latch damaged...
Your 767 bulk cargo door sill has impact damage...
Your A330 has a belly fairing fastener missing...
Your A330 has a couple of drops of fuel from the VSV/VBV drain...
Your A330 has a mlg brake temp sensor bracket cracked...
Your a/c apparently has a lizard on board...

I'll just pop it in the book... Thanks"..

[600ft-lb]

Every airline at S.I.T. and I would safely say around the country in the least, have all transits/PREFLTS conducted by LAME's.

Jetstar and Virgin don't for their domestic operation, they do daily's. Etops preflights being the exception. Only need to call an engineer out if there is a problem, last time I looked their OTP was pretty close to Qantas.

Even I as a worker for Qantas can see the writing on the wall in this area.

[Black Hands]

Jetstar and Virgin don't for their domestic operation, they do daily's. Etops preflights being the exception. Only need to call an engineer out if there is a problem, last time I looked their OTP was pretty close to Qantas.

One would assume, our OTP should see significant improvement with no one looking for defects...