What's the real truth behind Jet Connect?
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What's the real truth behind Jet Connect?
The following was passed on from a very reliable source alleging that Qantas Management has had this planned for AT LEAST 6 months (JetConnect 800's). The particular source was told by a "company man" 6 MONTHS AGO that JetConnect was indeed getting 737-800's of the new variety, and that they WILL be VH Registered aircraft and crewed by JetConnect with the intention of expanding aggressively and its all tied in with the new government agreement.
This wouldn't be the same Jet Connect that up until very recently whose pilot's had their own wings and did not have "Spirit of Australia" on their aircraft now wear Qantas wings to go with their Qantas uniforms and identical Qantas liveried aircraft now would it? ?It appears that in the eyes of Management there is no differentiation between Jet Connect and Qantas Mainline, only no Qantas pilots to be seen.
It was also alleged that the Qantas Cheif Pilot and the management team all know about this and are trying to keep it as quiet as possible for as long as possible. They also said that the Chief Pilot is prepared for a "WAR" on the issue when it comes to light. He (the informant) said he was "leaking this information" because although a company man, this was outrageous. The particular source is indeed very reliable.
This leads into the "managing the surplus" issue. If in fact management are preparing to fight a Transfer of Business case, the issue that they have not made anyone redundant (because AIPA have helped them out through LWOP and leave, flexi rosters etc etc ) helps their case incredibly. In fact Management have played AIPA perfectly in that they knew AIPA would try to "work with the company".
This wouldn't be the same Jet Connect that up until very recently whose pilot's had their own wings and did not have "Spirit of Australia" on their aircraft now wear Qantas wings to go with their Qantas uniforms and identical Qantas liveried aircraft now would it? ?It appears that in the eyes of Management there is no differentiation between Jet Connect and Qantas Mainline, only no Qantas pilots to be seen.
It was also alleged that the Qantas Cheif Pilot and the management team all know about this and are trying to keep it as quiet as possible for as long as possible. They also said that the Chief Pilot is prepared for a "WAR" on the issue when it comes to light. He (the informant) said he was "leaking this information" because although a company man, this was outrageous. The particular source is indeed very reliable.
This leads into the "managing the surplus" issue. If in fact management are preparing to fight a Transfer of Business case, the issue that they have not made anyone redundant (because AIPA have helped them out through LWOP and leave, flexi rosters etc etc ) helps their case incredibly. In fact Management have played AIPA perfectly in that they knew AIPA would try to "work with the company".
Interesting post Max. Unfortunately as much as I try to believe and hope we (i.e. AIPA) are being respected the truth is probably "still out there".
Interesting snippet from Team Bazza in insights yesterday:
Surely if we are ignored yet again the penny will drop with our AIPA Exec??
Interesting snippet from Team Bazza in insights yesterday:
Career Progression
AIPA has put a proposal to the Company regarding career progression and as yet has not received a reply. It seems these days it is easier for a Qantas pilot to get a job overseas than transfer within the Qantas Group. Surely the money spent on training pilots would not be wasted if pilots were used more effectively and sensible and sustainable career progression was available. I would like to think we will have something concrete to say on this matter shortly.
AIPA has put a proposal to the Company regarding career progression and as yet has not received a reply. It seems these days it is easier for a Qantas pilot to get a job overseas than transfer within the Qantas Group. Surely the money spent on training pilots would not be wasted if pilots were used more effectively and sensible and sustainable career progression was available. I would like to think we will have something concrete to say on this matter shortly.
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Max.
You have hit the nail on the head.
By 'recognising' Jetconnect in the last EBA we have given the company carte blanch to unlimited Jetconnect expansion.
I wont even begin to comment on why this occurred, but if we look at the negotiating team, many resurrected from the holt era then you can draw your own conclusions.
The end game is near I think. Squeezed by both JQ and Jetconnect we are looking at massive redundancies, up to 1000 if my numbers are correct.
Dont listen to the wankers at fatties who bang on as if it will all blow over. Time to face reality and plan for your future.
The only problem is that as 'overpaid pollution' I fear the majority of ex-mainliners will not be successful if they apply to any other QF group operator.
Good luck to all
You have hit the nail on the head.
By 'recognising' Jetconnect in the last EBA we have given the company carte blanch to unlimited Jetconnect expansion.
I wont even begin to comment on why this occurred, but if we look at the negotiating team, many resurrected from the holt era then you can draw your own conclusions.
The end game is near I think. Squeezed by both JQ and Jetconnect we are looking at massive redundancies, up to 1000 if my numbers are correct.
Dont listen to the wankers at fatties who bang on as if it will all blow over. Time to face reality and plan for your future.
The only problem is that as 'overpaid pollution' I fear the majority of ex-mainliners will not be successful if they apply to any other QF group operator.
Good luck to all
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Max, you are dead right.
The same is for V/PB/Poly to VB with their EBA coming...
Sadly the Kiwi wage is on par with the Mexican Peso & Chile Pesos, so now the Tasman market is all "as one"... you can see where the management are going with this... if you can't, "go directly to Gail and do not pass Go"
The same is for V/PB/Poly to VB with their EBA coming...
Sadly the Kiwi wage is on par with the Mexican Peso & Chile Pesos, so now the Tasman market is all "as one"... you can see where the management are going with this... if you can't, "go directly to Gail and do not pass Go"
Last edited by Chocks Away; 28th Aug 2009 at 05:19.
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Max what are you on????
Next you will be telling us that the JC pilots are on 1/3 the money of Qantas drivers.
JC has been getting 800 for the last twelve months....where have you been???
The jets get delivered to Australia as VH aircraft as they are owned by QF. They then get there ZK rego before being placed on the NZ register.
Next you will be telling us that the JC pilots are on 1/3 the money of Qantas drivers.
JC has been getting 800 for the last twelve months....where have you been???
The jets get delivered to Australia as VH aircraft as they are owned by QF. They then get there ZK rego before being placed on the NZ register.
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I think that was his point distracted.
How many of the Jet Connect pilots have passed Qantas selection, Qantas psych tests, Qantas training, etc.
Claytons Qantas if you like.
Bit like a copy watch really.
Looks the same ,costs a hell of a lot less ,but isn't really the genuine article, and more than likely to breakdown when you really need it because it hasn't been subjected to the same quality control standards. .
If we keep going down this road why does Qantas have to train to jump through more hoops which costs a lot more?
If what the other LCC's are doing is ok by CASA then surely Qantas shouldn't have to be held at a financial disadvantage.
Just look what Qantas Training Captains and Qantas Sim instructers have to go through to qualify. Takes a lot of study, a lot of sim time and costs Qantas a small fortune.
Why aren't the other Australian carriers forced to adopt the same requirements that CASA foists onto Qantas, or for that matter why doesn't CASA allow Qantas to adopt the less costly training practices that are accepted elsewhere?
Ps, This is all starting to smack of the ALEA thread.
It would appear that if a Union in Qantas grows balls to take on and openly oppose the mandated plan then the wrath of god comes down to smite those who dare to challenge.
We saw management were more than happy to blow $130 million of
shareholder value for a pay rise to engineers that would have cost $4 million.
All they did was refuse to work overtime? Go figure.
We've seen with AIPA that if they grow balls all the company stooges come out of the woodwork and the company propaganda machine cranks into overdrive.
When are Qantas pilots going to realise that Qantas management are not their friend. Qantas management want to see the demise of what has been fought for over many years and replace it with a cheap imitation
and to add insult to injury, won't even allow Qantas pilots willing to accept the lower conditions(what has happened to the surplus by the way) to go work for these Qantas owned entities.
Don't want the possibility of pilots forming a bond and realising that the enemy is management not each other I suspect.
How many of the Jet Connect pilots have passed Qantas selection, Qantas psych tests, Qantas training, etc.
Claytons Qantas if you like.
Bit like a copy watch really.
Looks the same ,costs a hell of a lot less ,but isn't really the genuine article, and more than likely to breakdown when you really need it because it hasn't been subjected to the same quality control standards. .
If we keep going down this road why does Qantas have to train to jump through more hoops which costs a lot more?
If what the other LCC's are doing is ok by CASA then surely Qantas shouldn't have to be held at a financial disadvantage.
Just look what Qantas Training Captains and Qantas Sim instructers have to go through to qualify. Takes a lot of study, a lot of sim time and costs Qantas a small fortune.
Why aren't the other Australian carriers forced to adopt the same requirements that CASA foists onto Qantas, or for that matter why doesn't CASA allow Qantas to adopt the less costly training practices that are accepted elsewhere?
Ps, This is all starting to smack of the ALEA thread.
It would appear that if a Union in Qantas grows balls to take on and openly oppose the mandated plan then the wrath of god comes down to smite those who dare to challenge.
We saw management were more than happy to blow $130 million of
shareholder value for a pay rise to engineers that would have cost $4 million.
All they did was refuse to work overtime? Go figure.
We've seen with AIPA that if they grow balls all the company stooges come out of the woodwork and the company propaganda machine cranks into overdrive.
When are Qantas pilots going to realise that Qantas management are not their friend. Qantas management want to see the demise of what has been fought for over many years and replace it with a cheap imitation
and to add insult to injury, won't even allow Qantas pilots willing to accept the lower conditions(what has happened to the surplus by the way) to go work for these Qantas owned entities.
Don't want the possibility of pilots forming a bond and realising that the enemy is management not each other I suspect.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 27th Aug 2009 at 22:38.
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Divided we Fall.
Which brings us to the point - when are we going to form one united pilot group/association/union to raise the conditions for pilots within Australia/New Zealand??????
As Blow N implies it should be Pilots vs Management/Accountants NOT Pilots vs Pilots.
We have been played off against each other for too long now. Instead of fighting amongst ourselves and letting our egos run rampant arguing who is a better pilot and who is not, and who is worth more and who is not, and who is wrong and who is right, we need to realise we all do a very similar job and should all benefit from similar work conditions - lets make sure they suitable and the best we can negotiate.
Currently its pilots from VB vs Poly vs PB vs QF Long vs QF Short vs JC vs JS vs JS NZ vs NJ vs Tiger vs Skywest vs Anyone else I have left out and any future newcomers!
We need to form one association for pilots, much like medical practioners have the AMA, and until this happens we will all keep getting shafted!!!!
We need a Trans-tasman or at least a National amalgamation for PILOTS.
I'm now waiting for someone to call me an idealist.
As Blow N implies it should be Pilots vs Management/Accountants NOT Pilots vs Pilots.
We have been played off against each other for too long now. Instead of fighting amongst ourselves and letting our egos run rampant arguing who is a better pilot and who is not, and who is worth more and who is not, and who is wrong and who is right, we need to realise we all do a very similar job and should all benefit from similar work conditions - lets make sure they suitable and the best we can negotiate.
Currently its pilots from VB vs Poly vs PB vs QF Long vs QF Short vs JC vs JS vs JS NZ vs NJ vs Tiger vs Skywest vs Anyone else I have left out and any future newcomers!
We need to form one association for pilots, much like medical practioners have the AMA, and until this happens we will all keep getting shafted!!!!
We need a Trans-tasman or at least a National amalgamation for PILOTS.
I'm now waiting for someone to call me an idealist.
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Not disagreeing with any of the above posts, but I do have a question for the above posters...how much will it cost to retrench all of us??
I understand we have certain rights under industrial relations law, so we all really believe QF will wear the cost of retrenching 1000 pilots as mentioned above?
Discuss
I understand we have certain rights under industrial relations law, so we all really believe QF will wear the cost of retrenching 1000 pilots as mentioned above?
Discuss
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The Jetconnect horse bolted years ago. As above - 737-800s no secret, and will not be VH registered.
Agree inter-union cooperation is the way forward. It is not possible to have a single union representing pilots in different countries due to legal reasons. Most of the unions are already members of IFALPA so there is a starting point. A QF group opportunity list should be one of the end goals for all pilots within the group. Work together not againts each other.
Agree inter-union cooperation is the way forward. It is not possible to have a single union representing pilots in different countries due to legal reasons. Most of the unions are already members of IFALPA so there is a starting point. A QF group opportunity list should be one of the end goals for all pilots within the group. Work together not againts each other.
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Who_Cares what are the alert parameters set to ?
Sorry Coppabella it wasn't clear in my original post but the present angst in the Qantas ranks isn't the fact that Jetconnect are getting 737-800's but the rumour that there is to be a massive expansion to the Jetconnect operation ,obviously to the detriment of mainline.
Direct Anywhere, why are training captains in Qantas even contemplating training their replacements?
I heard through the grape vine that the Jetstar trainers took a moral stand and refused to train their cheaper replacements in NZ.
Sorry Coppabella it wasn't clear in my original post but the present angst in the Qantas ranks isn't the fact that Jetconnect are getting 737-800's but the rumour that there is to be a massive expansion to the Jetconnect operation ,obviously to the detriment of mainline.
Direct Anywhere, why are training captains in Qantas even contemplating training their replacements?
I heard through the grape vine that the Jetstar trainers took a moral stand and refused to train their cheaper replacements in NZ.
Nunc est bibendum
max, talking to a bloke I know in J* I'm not sure that latter statement is correct. Further as a trainer I don't think you get a say (let alone the chance to take a 'moral stand') on you train.
Nunc est bibendum
Fair enough. Now I get the 'moral stand' bit. Those guys are no longer C&T. Good on them for making that stand although it probably robs the training department of a couple of good operators by the sounds of things. I wonder what type of people will replace them?!?! 
Apparently quite a few B737 Trainers with QF have also resigned from the position as they refuse to train Jet Connect pilots. Good on them! 
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some guys at JQ have taken a stand and refused to train, but there are many with significant previous form ready and willing to 'help' out. and as a reward, check b a-palooza and back to melbourne.
What hope has the industry got when guys take a stand and others quite happily feather their own nest.
It might be 20 years since that event, but the motive is just the same.
What hope has the industry got when guys take a stand and others quite happily feather their own nest.
It might be 20 years since that event, but the motive is just the same.
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All the talk about AIPA launching a Transmission of Business action is laughable. Any such case would run smack bang into the same road block BALPA ran into when it attempted to use UK law to stop BA's European based expansion.
Aussie transmission of business (Fair Work) legislation simply can't constrain off shoring and/or globalisation.
However, AeroStatic’s view on:
Offers realistic hope.
The GOAL needs to be kicked sometime soon, as piloting jobs with 'Qantas Mainline' are in decline, along with the fabled White Rat, which will increasingly become an A380 Protected Species seen only on LA & London runs.
Aussie transmission of business (Fair Work) legislation simply can't constrain off shoring and/or globalisation.
However, AeroStatic’s view on:
IFALPA...is a starting point and a QF group opportunity list one of the end goals...
The GOAL needs to be kicked sometime soon, as piloting jobs with 'Qantas Mainline' are in decline, along with the fabled White Rat, which will increasingly become an A380 Protected Species seen only on LA & London runs.
Last edited by Gingerbread; 28th Aug 2009 at 08:52.