Merged: APNG Twin Otter Missing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pointy End
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not good news..... all these outstanding investigations need to be put to bed to give PNG aviation any credibility. Apart from the fact that lessons learnt may prevent future similar events occurring.
Are there any likely candidates that can take over and close these investigations off if Sid does not get a reprieve?
Are there any likely candidates that can take over and close these investigations off if Sid does not get a reprieve?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Mr O'Toole, one of the country's most experienced investigators, became a whistleblower in 2008 when he warned a major air disaster was likely to occur as funding was not getting to important aviation safety areas such as crash investigations.
.......He was the only one they had as far as I knew. And there is not likely to be a bunch of folk beating on the door to replace him either I reckon!
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is one high profile person who has his hat in the ring. Should be ideal for the position as he is a veteran crasher of helicopters.
I don't think syd is all that interested in a reprieve judging from the conversation I had with him on Saturday.
I don't think syd is all that interested in a reprieve judging from the conversation I had with him on Saturday.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,967
Received 92 Likes
on
53 Posts
Inquiry in doubt as Kokoda crash chief axed
When I was there it used to be known as the `Land of the unexpected.`
How come I knew this was going to happen?
Reckon I know one bloke who used to work in that area and would have considered returning if asked, but doubt if he would now.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kokoda crash report won't be delayed: Government
Kokoda crash report won't be delayed: Government - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Headline says "won't be delayed" article says "time frame should not be impacted"
Hmmmm.....what to believe. We will never know in any case....
What a shambles
Di
Headline says "won't be delayed" article says "time frame should not be impacted"
Hmmmm.....what to believe. We will never know in any case....
What a shambles
Di
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South of the Border
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a thought.
If it were my company I would finance the report and get everything out in the open once and for all.I am sure it could be done in an unbaised way.
The PNG aviation authority will not improve because of it(Safety Report) but at least there would be closure for everyone.
APNG is a dynamic company and can very well foot the bill.
If it were my company I would finance the report and get everything out in the open once and for all.I am sure it could be done in an unbaised way.
The PNG aviation authority will not improve because of it(Safety Report) but at least there would be closure for everyone.
APNG is a dynamic company and can very well foot the bill.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
APNG can not fund the report it would never be seen as unbias. In a corrupt country like PNG it would never be seen as a true and unbias report. I have heard that people within APNG are not happy about this, of course they want this properly investigated what well run airline would not. Just remember APNG lost employees and friends that day that they still miss to this day. They are not as cold hearted as the journos would like to think they are.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South of the Border
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where the money comes from,no-one needs to know.
APNG lost 3 friends, what about the other nine lives.
The other families want to know why their friends never came home to.
Without any action soon this tragedy will only go the way of so many others in the past.
APNG lost 3 friends, what about the other nine lives.
The other families want to know why their friends never came home to.
Without any action soon this tragedy will only go the way of so many others in the past.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You would have to wonder why everyone is hanging on the edge of their seats for a report. unless it was an actual process failure, what can be achieved from it?. Yes it is sad, and a tragic loss of life, but actually having someone to blame for it isn't going to improve a damn thing.
You can have as many processes and procedures as you like to achieve a result, but if the PIC diverts away from them and causes an accident, what can you do?. no-one I know goes out of their way to cause an accident, and we all sign stuff that says we intend to adhere to the stated procedures, and yet an accident occurred. Did she follow procedure/process? we may never know, but probably not, as the accident happened.
As long as the report doesn't show a systemic failure, what other than blaming is to be achieved by it?.
In a situation such as this one, the report will be at best an educated guess based on the few facts they can glean from paperwork and witnesses.
You can have as many processes and procedures as you like to achieve a result, but if the PIC diverts away from them and causes an accident, what can you do?. no-one I know goes out of their way to cause an accident, and we all sign stuff that says we intend to adhere to the stated procedures, and yet an accident occurred. Did she follow procedure/process? we may never know, but probably not, as the accident happened.
As long as the report doesn't show a systemic failure, what other than blaming is to be achieved by it?.
In a situation such as this one, the report will be at best an educated guess based on the few facts they can glean from paperwork and witnesses.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Mr. all knowing night beetle. maybe you should look into who is actually responsible for the report then. It aint the CAA. Maybe have a look at the AIC and point your finger at them huh?. As you obviously know who I am, and I'm pretty sure I know who you are, you would know that the mob I work for are not involved at all. In fact we ourselves are also waiting for the report .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South of the Border
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here steady on, auz. I don't know who you are and have no desire to.
I do know you have alot to say about everything,that is fine.Your right and my right to comment also.
Lets leave the personal abuse out of this.
It is the "system" that is at fault,if you work in part of the "system"that is purely coincidental.
I do know you have alot to say about everything,that is fine.Your right and my right to comment also.
Lets leave the personal abuse out of this.
It is the "system" that is at fault,if you work in part of the "system"that is purely coincidental.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No personal abuse intended....... Must just read bad.
I do have a bit to say, but only about matters I know about. this happens to be one of those matters. (with regards to my last post)
I was simply wondering aloud with the post before. Wondering why so much importance is being placed on a report that will in essence achieve very little.
Basically, unless there was a systemic procedural problem, the pilot got it wrong. So someone gets the blame.... I can't see that achieving much at all. I guess the families will get closure of sorts........ they can now blame someone.
But why all the media coverage and public outcry of Syd getting canned?. Yes, the report will be delayed, but it certainly isn't going to make flying in PNG any safer because a report into a tragic accident is released. If one believes all the media hype, its the be all and end all of air safety in PNG and unless its release is done in a short time, we're all going to crash and die.
I do have a bit to say, but only about matters I know about. this happens to be one of those matters. (with regards to my last post)
I was simply wondering aloud with the post before. Wondering why so much importance is being placed on a report that will in essence achieve very little.
Basically, unless there was a systemic procedural problem, the pilot got it wrong. So someone gets the blame.... I can't see that achieving much at all. I guess the families will get closure of sorts........ they can now blame someone.
But why all the media coverage and public outcry of Syd getting canned?. Yes, the report will be delayed, but it certainly isn't going to make flying in PNG any safer because a report into a tragic accident is released. If one believes all the media hype, its the be all and end all of air safety in PNG and unless its release is done in a short time, we're all going to crash and die.
The aviation industry in PNG has been basically self regulated for years by the operators, due to the associated problems with the government departments who are responsible for the industry, hence all the operators have taken it on board to enhance their own safety culture within their organizations. As mentioned in one of the recent newspaper reports last weekend, ramp checks etc once were being carried out but when the funding dried up it all stopped.
The report isn't really going to tell us anymore than we already know, the PIC hit the hill in IMC and that was the end of it. What needs to be addressed is how she ended up being in IMC below the LSALT, ie inexperience, training, commercial pressures, and the list goes on. To say that the aircraft crashed due to bad weather just doesn't fit the bill, as the PIC was the one who put the aircraft into the bad weather, was the weather bad at PY when she departed ? No.
I totally agree with Wiz, if the PIC diverts from SOP's/process which obviously has occurred in this instance it leaves a lot of things open. Basically if a crew ignore SOP's, then they are out on their own.
Industry education is the thing that should be coming out of this report, not pointing fingers at various people.
As we all know PNG is on of the toughest countries in the world to fly in, and the more the PNG aviation community learn from tragic accidents like this the better, in an effort to prevent accidents like this from occurring in the future.
The report isn't really going to tell us anymore than we already know, the PIC hit the hill in IMC and that was the end of it. What needs to be addressed is how she ended up being in IMC below the LSALT, ie inexperience, training, commercial pressures, and the list goes on. To say that the aircraft crashed due to bad weather just doesn't fit the bill, as the PIC was the one who put the aircraft into the bad weather, was the weather bad at PY when she departed ? No.
I totally agree with Wiz, if the PIC diverts from SOP's/process which obviously has occurred in this instance it leaves a lot of things open. Basically if a crew ignore SOP's, then they are out on their own.
Industry education is the thing that should be coming out of this report, not pointing fingers at various people.
As we all know PNG is on of the toughest countries in the world to fly in, and the more the PNG aviation community learn from tragic accidents like this the better, in an effort to prevent accidents like this from occurring in the future.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: on the edge
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Should be ideal for the position as he is a veteran crasher of helicopters
Now that's a bit harsh, OZ
He has told me that the money offered was extremely low, don't think he will be going there unless the ante is upped a lot.
And maybe Syd is his own enemy in all this.
He intimated to his superiors what the report would say.
Cheers
BH