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Merged: APNG Twin Otter Missing

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Merged: APNG Twin Otter Missing

Old 31st Aug 2009, 07:18
  #261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PNG
Age: 73
Posts: 23
To Jim

Knew him very very well he was very very experienced what a sad loss
sid Otoole is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2009, 07:32
  #262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PNG
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training missions in png

Add efogi to your list !!!!!
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Old 1st Sep 2009, 23:29
  #263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 286
try that wes
thanks much, appreciate the link.
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Old 7th Sep 2009, 00:09
  #264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Got a video on youtube of flying down the gap with an orbit of Isurava for anyone who is interested.

YouTube - Kokoda Gap
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 00:13
  #265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oz
Posts: 468
Thanks Kunai for the reminder to get my super8 films transfered to digital.

Was a great place to fly.

tipsy
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 02:11
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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...and that was on a nice morning. Now imagine doing it in poor wx with cloud and rain obscuring a lot of what you can see in that video!
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Old 14th Sep 2009, 04:10
  #267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney
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Documentary on aviation in PNG

Helllo All,

I am researching a documentary film on the challenges of flying in PNG and aviation safety, especially in the wake of the tragic events of 11 August 2009. Should you have information that could shed more light on the subject and wish to share it, please send me a private message.
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Old 14th Sep 2009, 08:59
  #268 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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Location: Awaiting the lifting of travel restrictions out of Oz so I can return to Japan for another stint of flying the Glider Tug, eating great Japanese food and, of course, continuing the never ending search for that bad bottle of Red
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Docomaker; I take your request at face value by giving you this advice;
Unless you are prepared to post under your real name and give full contact details, I suspect that most, if not all ex and current PNG Pilots will treat you as nothing more than a journo on a muck raking expedition.

Speaking for myself only, until you meet that criteria I would'nt even give you the time of day.
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Old 14th Sep 2009, 10:40
  #269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 51
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Doco

I second the above post. I was born in PNG, my parents flew around a fair bit in the 60's and that is as much a link as I can claim, but many of us have some passion ranging from mine right up to the likes of, Tinpis, Chimbu Chuckles, Chimbu Warrior etc etc.

I would suggest that you should seek out a few of the known experts and be prepared to pay for their knowledge.

If there was a topic that could be misrepresented any more than this one, i would be surprised.

I think many here would love to see a high quality and factual story told, unfortunately the media in all its forms has an extremely poor record at getting the facts anywhere near correct, so you could actually take this opportunity to make a name for yourself and gain a great following of support.

Good Luck!
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Old 14th Sep 2009, 13:56
  #270 (permalink)  
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
 
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I mirror Pinky's post............... Accept I don't own a watch.
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Old 18th Sep 2009, 02:09
  #271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oz
Posts: 468
Preliminary Accident Report here (ATSB/AIC)

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/762563/...ual_report.pdf

tipsy
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 13:02
  #272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PNG
Posts: 2
APNG in emergency descent.

Friday 25th Sept CG 100 (balus 100) POM-CNS suffered depressuirsation & carried out an emergence descent.....could have something to do with schedulled maintanence being re-schedulled,being re-schedulled,being re-schedulled no spare aircraft,commercially driven by OPS dept.
In order to chase ALL the contract mining work a company needs to have reliable aircraft...not to mention a spare 1 or 2.
Must be great to have switched on management at the helm.
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Old 30th Sep 2009, 00:52
  #273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I was never a supporter of 2 pilot ops in Twotters in PNG because,

1/. The likelihood of proper 2 crew SOPs being implemented was always going to be problematic when none of the trainers had an airline background,

2/. When shits are trumps in PNG you don't have time to discuss it

3/. A new FO taught to 'speak up' when 'uncomfortable' would go hoarse in PNG

4/. After several months of their 'concerns' being essentially ignored they would tend to just sit there and accept whatever happened next.

The accident record since the implementation of 2 crew ops seems to indicate no safety benefit has been realised.

Its all moot anyway - if SP command experience was to become a non negotiable Twotter command requirement you'd park most of the Twotters in PNG.

Sorry CC but I have to disagree.

A few years ago now I flew for a PNG company, starting with around 2500 hrs of single pilot time flown in oz. After a training regime that quite frankly would put most regional (and some jet) airlines in Australia to shame I was checked to the right seat of an Otter. After 9 or 10 months of learning on the job I earned a spot in the left.

1/. The likelihood of proper 2 crew SOPs being implemented was always going to be problematic when none of the trainers had an airline background,
We took the multi crew thing very seriously. The company was part of the Air Niugini cadetship program. We were trained by people with muli crew experience and occasionally flew the line with ex jet airline pilots.

2/. When shits are trumps in PNG you don't have time to discuss it
Too true. We thoroughly briefed everything beforehand. The pm knew exactly what the PF was thinking right down to expected visual cues and terrain escape routes. The resulting cockpit environment at times was not unlike a close knit crew in a rally car. You may well scoff, but in all the low level flying in & out of valleys in marginal weather that we did I never felt uncomfortable. Nor did we ever mis-identify a valley, take a wrong turn, mis-judge rising terrain etc etc. You can imagine my surprise when moving on to a large airline back in oz. I found that 'proper' multi crew ostensibly consists of the PF flying & the PM operating the radios em tasol.

3/. A new FO taught to 'speak up' when 'uncomfortable' would go hoarse in PNG.
A new FO would only be uncomfortable if they had no idea what was normal and what the other pilot was intending to do. That comes down to training & briefing.

4/. After several months of their 'concerns' being essentially ignored they would tend to just sit there and accept whatever happened next.
Just as this would not be considered acceptable where you work. In the company that I worked the multi crew thing was taken seriously, ignoring a crew members concerns would have resulted in swift and severe actions from a higher authority.

IMHO the argument for extensive single pilot time in PNG doesn't fly. It's a bit like arguing that a Boeing/Airbus command would be safer if given to pilots with single pilot jet time.
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Old 30th Sep 2009, 02:45
  #274 (permalink)  

Grandpa Aerotart
 
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PJ that is great - when I was SPing in PNG and there was the occasional need for 2 crew the result was a joke - I am very glad to hear that its done properly now.

A few years ago now I flew for a PNG company, starting with around 2500 hrs of single pilot time flown in oz. After a training regime that quite frankly would put most regional (and some jet) airlines in Australia to shame
The resulting cockpit environment at times was not unlike a close knit crew in a rally car. You may well scoff, but in all the low level flying in & out of valleys in marginal weather that we did I never felt uncomfortable. Nor did we ever mis-identify a valley, take a wrong turn, mis-judge rising terrain etc etc. You can imagine my surprise when moving on to a large airline back in oz. I found that 'proper' multi crew ostensibly consists of the PF flying & the PM operating the radios em tasol.
Great analogy.

That does not surprise me at all. The quality of the (SP) training we got in Talair/Airlink etc was excellent -vastly superior to what was happening in GA in Australia then or now - PX was similarly excellent in CRM/2 crew ops, world class in fact - those of us who went out to the world after PX all feel the same way - we have never had training since that is the equal of that we received at PX, particularly CRM.

2 crew ops in Twotters was just starting to be mooted when I left GA and joined PX thus I have no experience of 2 crew bush ops other than in the Dash 7. I remember discussing this issue with mates after we had joined PX and 2 crew Twotter ops became a reality - while non of us could work out what a co-pilot would do in a Twotter - I think the consensus was that PX CRM/SOPs would be needed and that just was not going to happen in PNG GA at that time.

I am very happy that changed.

Having said that I am still VERY HAPPY that all my time in Twotters/Bandits was SP. It was FUN

Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 30th Sep 2009 at 02:55.
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Old 19th Jul 2010, 01:19
  #275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
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Inquiry in doubt as Kokoda crash chief axed

Inquiry in doubt as Kokoda crash chief axed | The Australian


Hmmmm......

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Old 19th Jul 2010, 03:25
  #276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Not good news..... all these outstanding investigations need to be put to bed to give PNG aviation any credibility. Apart from the fact that lessons learnt may prevent future similar events occurring.

Are there any likely candidates that can take over and close these investigations off if Sid does not get a reprieve?
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Old 19th Jul 2010, 04:08
  #277 (permalink)  
 
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Mr O'Toole, one of the country's most experienced investigators, became a whistleblower in 2008 when he warned a major air disaster was likely to occur as funding was not getting to important aviation safety areas such as crash investigations.
Right .......He was the only one they had as far as I knew. And there is not likely to be a bunch of folk beating on the door to replace him either I reckon!
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Old 19th Jul 2010, 04:19
  #278 (permalink)  
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
 
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There is one high profile person who has his hat in the ring. Should be ideal for the position as he is a veteran crasher of helicopters.
I don't think syd is all that interested in a reprieve judging from the conversation I had with him on Saturday.
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Old 19th Jul 2010, 05:08
  #279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Couldn't really blame him having been doing this:



for so many years!

Di
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Old 19th Jul 2010, 09:35
  #280 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Age: 65
Posts: 2,571
Thumbs down

Inquiry in doubt as Kokoda crash chief axed

When I was there it used to be known as the `Land of the unexpected.`

How come I knew this was going to happen?

Reckon I know one bloke who used to work in that area and would have considered returning if asked, but doubt if he would now.
Pinky the pilot is offline  

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