Qantas A380 - LAME positions.
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Bad luck Suckholes
I applied and will prob miss out as my last course was not long ago. But I will be glad that someone who hasn't been trained for ages will get it ahead of me instead of some suckhole or 'clubber' as is the past system of selection. Lots of winging on this post but no suggestions of a fairer system? I think you boys with carpet burns on your knees are realising all that sucking up has been a waste.
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So if you haven't been trained for 8 years you get a 25% headstart on a guy who has had a course in the previous 3 years. Well bugger me, what an inovative idea. Two trains of thought from the crew, having heard both sides I interpret them as follows -
- Im am great, yes great I am, better than everone else in base. I've spent a year helping the company on a special project to make the company more efficient. I went and bought a course to save the company money. I work faster than everyone else because I run between jobs. I am also a big man and when I tell the coneheads to get out of my way, they always move so I can get my job done first and that lazy dog in the corner who reads the paper at lunchtime instead of planning the afternoon work is now getting a head start on me for nothing. Kev said he would look after me and that has been taken away. How dare the union take away my opportunity to shine.
- I got a course last year so of course he deserves a chance, he hasn't been trained for 8 years.
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yes i think that some have missed out on training for not being in the matey club but in a class of 18 it might only be 2% of them so the others got there on their own and yes i think that time between course's is the major item for being selected for your next course....bolt-on's are a thing of the past as we dont have any [or little] other operators to worry about andI have posted enough about external training
Join Date: Dec 2007
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This new selection system has already failed. Talk around the place yesterday is that SIT guys are scoring high and that base guys are scoring average, dont know about SDT, how is this a fair and equitable system?
Whoever heard of a system where your old employer gets to rate you and decide if you can move on to your new job. If your'e not a great worker you can be scored high to get rid of you, if your'e a valued worker you are scored just low enough to ensure you can't be lost to another section.
Its difficult, based on the scoring criteria to argue that you were unfairly rated!
The company are the ones who built these walls between work (A/C type) areas and now their system is biting us all.
At this late stage probably the best option is to scrap the current rating system and send the 135 names to Team A380 and let them pick whoever they want as it's their train set. Their new manager probably doesn't know too many of us and will have to rely on his Ops Managers and Leading Hands for the best selections as they know best who they want.
Whoever heard of a system where your old employer gets to rate you and decide if you can move on to your new job. If your'e not a great worker you can be scored high to get rid of you, if your'e a valued worker you are scored just low enough to ensure you can't be lost to another section.
Its difficult, based on the scoring criteria to argue that you were unfairly rated!
The company are the ones who built these walls between work (A/C type) areas and now their system is biting us all.
At this late stage probably the best option is to scrap the current rating system and send the 135 names to Team A380 and let them pick whoever they want as it's their train set. Their new manager probably doesn't know too many of us and will have to rely on his Ops Managers and Leading Hands for the best selections as they know best who they want.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Oh what's that sound ?.............
Is it Violins ?.............
Yes it's violins playing sad sad music for all the company stooges and management sucks who have just been foiled in their attempts to undermine the majority of the LAME membership at Qantas
To all those ladder climbers, backstabbers, under the desk lads what a crying shame
People who do outside courses deliberately undermine the natural order of course progression to advance only one person.....THEMSELVES, this allows the company to train LESS people, all you mechanical and avionics men/women who have missed out on a course in the past ten years look to your left, look to your right, those lames that did outside courses !@#$%^& you over !!!!!!!!
Those who do outside category basics do so at the expense of other LAMEs if you're not a johnny come lately you'll remember that we once had five cats now we have two and even now people are driving for one cat, talk about cutting each other's throats for only one reason MONEY
As far as I'm concerned as a thirty years plus employee in this industry I see a union that is finally standing up for the little guy who continually gets worked over by the management, their pets and special project tools now has a chance of being recognised. I have worked alongside men who are exceptional LAMEs who are continually overlooked for training by the DMMs and the Manager. I believe these are the men who deserve the training ahead of the ahole who goes outside to train, the wannabe who does out of trade basics, the suck whose the member of the yum cha club, the special projects tool who never does shift...........etc
Fed Sec, I support this A380 Course selection iaw your recent notice.
Bring on the rest of the fleet
Is it Violins ?.............
Yes it's violins playing sad sad music for all the company stooges and management sucks who have just been foiled in their attempts to undermine the majority of the LAME membership at Qantas
To all those ladder climbers, backstabbers, under the desk lads what a crying shame
People who do outside courses deliberately undermine the natural order of course progression to advance only one person.....THEMSELVES, this allows the company to train LESS people, all you mechanical and avionics men/women who have missed out on a course in the past ten years look to your left, look to your right, those lames that did outside courses !@#$%^& you over !!!!!!!!
Those who do outside category basics do so at the expense of other LAMEs if you're not a johnny come lately you'll remember that we once had five cats now we have two and even now people are driving for one cat, talk about cutting each other's throats for only one reason MONEY
As far as I'm concerned as a thirty years plus employee in this industry I see a union that is finally standing up for the little guy who continually gets worked over by the management, their pets and special project tools now has a chance of being recognised. I have worked alongside men who are exceptional LAMEs who are continually overlooked for training by the DMMs and the Manager. I believe these are the men who deserve the training ahead of the ahole who goes outside to train, the wannabe who does out of trade basics, the suck whose the member of the yum cha club, the special projects tool who never does shift...........etc
Fed Sec, I support this A380 Course selection iaw your recent notice.
Bring on the rest of the fleet
Join Date: Jan 2008
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So Mr Fixit what you are saying is that we should all wait for the company to train us, no one should show initiative and anybody that does is a suckhole.
That is a bit rich.
The out if category basics bit, well the industry is changing whether we like it or not and I don't a few QF LAMEs doing extra basics has influenced that change.
The only people who did them before were the as you put it yum cha club members or the special projects tools.How is that fair? Why should these "wannabes" be penalised for doing a bit extra.
As I have said before I agree a new system is needed to overcome all this crap but they have moved the goalposts halfway through the game, and it seems not everyone is playing the game fairly or playing the same game.
And yes it is good to see the union stand up for the little guy, but in this instance the little guy is still being overlooked.
I dont think it will ever be 100% because you can't please everybody all the time, but it needs improvement.
Before the next course EOI comes out, be it for 380,330 737ng or 787 this system needs to be sorted with a set of rules that wont change during the selection process. Hopefully that will allow people to know where they stand from the beginning.
That is a bit rich.
The out if category basics bit, well the industry is changing whether we like it or not and I don't a few QF LAMEs doing extra basics has influenced that change.
The only people who did them before were the as you put it yum cha club members or the special projects tools.How is that fair? Why should these "wannabes" be penalised for doing a bit extra.
As I have said before I agree a new system is needed to overcome all this crap but they have moved the goalposts halfway through the game, and it seems not everyone is playing the game fairly or playing the same game.
And yes it is good to see the union stand up for the little guy, but in this instance the little guy is still being overlooked.
I dont think it will ever be 100% because you can't please everybody all the time, but it needs improvement.
Before the next course EOI comes out, be it for 380,330 737ng or 787 this system needs to be sorted with a set of rules that wont change during the selection process. Hopefully that will allow people to know where they stand from the beginning.
Join Date: May 2008
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ALAEA Fed Sec: Time since last course can be misleading
Do LAMEs think that the ones who have not been trained for a long period of time should have an advantage or is it better that they have to lobby for a course along with those who have had ample training?
Have any of you ever missed out on a course in the past because you weren't in "the club"?
Have any of you ever missed out on a course in the past because you weren't in "the club"?
I disagree with the logic that ‘no course for a long period = insufficient training’: Looking-around my section, the vast majority of those who will benefit from the 25% will be triple-licensed already (mainly 747, 744, 767).
In this respect, the points system will benefit those who are, in a way, “in the club”.
Most might not mow the manager’s lawn (although they exist), but when there was training, they were often either lucky (right section, right crew) or sufficiently well-connected to be put on course in front of others, who had waited their turn.
For the younger crowd, there are plenty of guys with 20 years’ service who are triple-licensed, versus plenty of guys who, at around 15 years’ service, have a single type. A bit of a skewed distribution, don’t you think? And if the the lucky ones managed to get all their training in first, then they'll be getting a first look-in this time as well.
I well remember some blokes going straight from one course to the next, leapfrogging over either a LAME who was waiting their turn, or an AME that was eligible for their first type. These licensed-up blokes then went on to get a great many lurks and perqs at a time when the number of licenses held was the determining factor in everything. Sure, they deserve more training, but there are others who need it more, and have waited. “Time since last course” simply doesn’t measure this.
IF the time since last course criteria had been applied all these years, it would work fantastically now: But it hasn’t been, so you are keeping the playing field uneven. I agree that if we could get to a stage where the time-since-last was the only criteria, that’d be great, but in the meantime you have to somehow compensate for previous inequitable distribution.
Suggestion: A percentage score, for example 25%, could have been included in addition to the score for time since last training – but instead, base it on courses/years of service. Most in QF deserve training, but if you’re going to target the training to the least advantaged, then this would be the way to do it. I reckon, unfortunately, that >1 course per 10 years’ service in QF indicates a (relatively) lucky individual.
Even more accurate would be counting only those years of service where you were eligible for a type course (all basics held). Disadvantage: Another dip into eQ; Advantage: It would not skew the benefits to those who hadn’t bothered to get their basics for many years.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Congratulations to all those successful applicants. Wishing you all many happy years working on such a large and brilliant piece of technology, with a wonderful team on a shift pattern that could change at any moment.
Wish I could be there, but am still recovering from the welts caused by the A38O security guys beating me away with a stick. (Still embracing the spirit though!)
Wish I could be there, but am still recovering from the welts caused by the A38O security guys beating me away with a stick. (Still embracing the spirit though!)
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What a tit you are !!
So Mr Fixit,you seem to have a problem with those that have taken the initiative to train themselves.
Thank God I dont follow your small minded, communist views, as today I would most likely have been made redundant whilst waiting for Qantas to train me.My career would have stagnated whilst all the glory boys got the training,and then when all the Ansett refugees came in and pipped me in the training stakes,I would have been kept down again.
So instead of leaving mine and my familys fate in the lap of the Gods,I decided to take control of my future and make sure I had a future.
If I had listened to eye swivelling lunatics like you and believed your tripe,and there were plenty of you then and still are plenty of your type about now,I would not be making my weekly subs to the ALAEA,and more importantly,I would be on about a third of the wage I am now.
Your comments typify those bludgers who sit around all day whingeing to whoever will listen to your utter bollocks. I suspect that you are most likely a queer trade pushing the upper levels of the wage structure.
And if I am wrong and youre not in the upper levels, then I would still assume that you are Avionics. And if you arent licenced on everything by now that Qantas flys after 30 years in the industry, then the reason for your lack of training is simple really. Its YOU!!
At the end of the day,my licence is MY licence and not Qantas's,so if training LAMEs was simply left to Qantas or other carriers,and we werent able to train ourselves, we would probably be a lot further down the track of a licencing system where the employer totally dictates who is trained and how many "approvals" are issued by QA.
Maybe that is what worked in Mother Russia in the old days pal, but if it wasnt for organisations such as Queensland Aerospace,JTP and the like, then you would likely have a lot less guys out there as fellow union members,and we would likely see a much weaker system where we would now be hiring foreigners on 457 visas instead of employing Aussies in what is a good industry.
Looking forward to you having a "cry" in reply.
Thank God I dont follow your small minded, communist views, as today I would most likely have been made redundant whilst waiting for Qantas to train me.My career would have stagnated whilst all the glory boys got the training,and then when all the Ansett refugees came in and pipped me in the training stakes,I would have been kept down again.
So instead of leaving mine and my familys fate in the lap of the Gods,I decided to take control of my future and make sure I had a future.
If I had listened to eye swivelling lunatics like you and believed your tripe,and there were plenty of you then and still are plenty of your type about now,I would not be making my weekly subs to the ALAEA,and more importantly,I would be on about a third of the wage I am now.
Your comments typify those bludgers who sit around all day whingeing to whoever will listen to your utter bollocks. I suspect that you are most likely a queer trade pushing the upper levels of the wage structure.
And if I am wrong and youre not in the upper levels, then I would still assume that you are Avionics. And if you arent licenced on everything by now that Qantas flys after 30 years in the industry, then the reason for your lack of training is simple really. Its YOU!!
At the end of the day,my licence is MY licence and not Qantas's,so if training LAMEs was simply left to Qantas or other carriers,and we werent able to train ourselves, we would probably be a lot further down the track of a licencing system where the employer totally dictates who is trained and how many "approvals" are issued by QA.
Maybe that is what worked in Mother Russia in the old days pal, but if it wasnt for organisations such as Queensland Aerospace,JTP and the like, then you would likely have a lot less guys out there as fellow union members,and we would likely see a much weaker system where we would now be hiring foreigners on 457 visas instead of employing Aussies in what is a good industry.
Looking forward to you having a "cry" in reply.
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I disagree with the logic that ‘no course for a long period = insufficient training’: Looking-around my section, the vast majority of those who will benefit from the 25% will be triple-licensed already (mainly 747, 744, 767).
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Fed Sec
This "time since last course" clause is rubbish!
While I can appreciate the intent to spread the licences more evenly over a wider number of LAMEs, to base the 25 points on just the number of years since your last course is flawed.
A simple system that divides the number of years you've had your basics by your number of company full type courses would be much more fair.
Bolt-ons, while not worth as much, do contribute to a LAMEs pay and hence should be worth 1/2 in this calculation. Current or not.
An outside course that a LAME has paid for himself should not count for as much as a company course but the fact that it also increses one's pay should mean it counts for 1/2 too. This recognises the effort and expense he has contributed but also recognises the increase in pay he recieves.
The current alocation of the union's 25 points does not seem fair when you consider the Super LAMEs that went from company course to course as soon as they were eligible, have since been racking up bolt-ons and now that the customer airlines have gone and their last few bolt-ons have dropped off the radar, they're next cab off the rank.
The number of licences you hold has to come into it. After all you can only sign one aircraft at a time.
While I can appreciate the intent to spread the licences more evenly over a wider number of LAMEs, to base the 25 points on just the number of years since your last course is flawed.
A simple system that divides the number of years you've had your basics by your number of company full type courses would be much more fair.
Bolt-ons, while not worth as much, do contribute to a LAMEs pay and hence should be worth 1/2 in this calculation. Current or not.
An outside course that a LAME has paid for himself should not count for as much as a company course but the fact that it also increses one's pay should mean it counts for 1/2 too. This recognises the effort and expense he has contributed but also recognises the increase in pay he recieves.
The current alocation of the union's 25 points does not seem fair when you consider the Super LAMEs that went from company course to course as soon as they were eligible, have since been racking up bolt-ons and now that the customer airlines have gone and their last few bolt-ons have dropped off the radar, they're next cab off the rank.
The number of licences you hold has to come into it. After all you can only sign one aircraft at a time.
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BUT have not had any training for 20 years !!!!! I think it is their turn, they have baby sat your like for that time waiting for a new type.
More importantly, if anyone like that DOES exist, they'd be on top of the pile for BOTH the 25% for time since last training, and the 25% for courses per years' service (3 courses/40 years = way less than 1 course/10 years = they'd beat everyone else in).
So, no disadvantage to the old blokes who haven't had as much training as they should for their years of service
TBP
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bug-a-lugs
spot on bugs and yes i am sure he is a conehead and sits at the top of the tree looking down at mech blokes saying how dare you go and get your conehead basics and try to be like me........his post was sh#t
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At the end of the day,my licence is MY licence and not Qantas's
Qantas is not the only airline in the world.
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I threw some bread crumbs on the water around my line but lost bait, hook, line, sinker and rod in one foul swoop.
I apologise for whipping you into a frenzy Bugs your comments re communism and mother russia made my eyes swell with tears of days gone by.
Your opinionated degradation of the avionics personel re the 'queer' trade suggests you carry a rather large chip around on your shoulder
Yes I do have a problem, you just screwed over your supposed mates you work with and by the look of it you could care less oh how very LAME of you
Yes the EACs did put a dint in training and their desire to 'do anything' the supervision wanted to secure the next course slot ahead of deserving QF candidates stuck in my throat also. As for the glory boys they are now ops managers or used dried pieces of skin left over from the dispute and will always be lurking in the shadows. As to being kept down how long had you been a LAME when this being held down occured and while we're at it how long did you spend as an AME after your APP finished
By your earlier degradation of avionics personel, I take it you are mechanical, a group that numbers almost 2/3 the engineers in QF but receives only approx. 3/5 the training. Yes as a whole you have been neglected, instead of turning your anger to a group that doesn't have a say in your training (Avionics) how about you turn it towards a group that does ....MANAGEMENT or are the coneheads too easy a target and MANAGEMENT too vindictive which lessens your bravery extensively.
Prior to the last election of the ALAEA thats exactly what you were doing
I would suggest after our last eba your actually doing better than ever
What an a typical comment from the X generation 'Me Me Me" there are a large amount of mechanical men and some avionics men (not alot) out there who have been here twenty years plus done the right thing worked hard day and night and do not have all the Qantas types for one simple reason... Qantas didn't train and then self serving pr!ks went outside and did courses that removed the company's need to train them. I would also like to know how long you have been in the industry as I said I, thirty years (nearly) four qantas types an average of 1 type per 7.? years of company service 6 years since my last course. Care to offer your story ?
What a load of bollocks, company licencing has been with us for over ten years now since CASA did away with type licencing, Aviation is a closed industry, the company whoever they controls the aircraft they buy be very aware THEY HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO TRAIN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US they choose to ignore that obligation so they can pit us against other so we don't notice the 101 ways they are retarding this company, this industry and our future.
That is exactly what they have done, did it ever occur to you that Qantas actually set up and funded each and every one of these organisations (check where DC, DF, MB, JV are board members) to further their own ends of denying their workforce an opportunity to train and ridding themselves of training inhouse. 457 visas are being imported into this country under what auspices ? they don't have the technical capability Why ??? because they don't train their own people..... Australian citizens and by the way if Qantas had of been compelled to train more by the solidarity of men / women not going outside to train we would way better off. In reference to your last words 'in what is a good industry' by the feverence and bitterness in your post (not only to Avionics personel, communists, long serving employees but me 
also) it suggests to me that this is a tongue in cheek comment and you are not all that happy and you are certainly not alone there Bug-a-lugs.
I apologise for whipping you into a frenzy Bugs your comments re communism and mother russia made my eyes swell with tears of days gone by.
Your opinionated degradation of the avionics personel re the 'queer' trade suggests you carry a rather large chip around on your shoulder
So Mr Fixit,you seem to have a problem with those that have taken the initiative to train themselves.
My career would have stagnated whilst all the glory boys got the training,and then when all the Ansett refugees came in and pipped me in the training stakes,I would have been kept down again.
So instead of leaving mine and my familys fate in the lap of the Gods,I decided to take control of my future and make sure I had a future.
If I had listened to eye swivelling lunatics like you and believed your tripe,and there were plenty of you then and still are plenty of your type about now,I would not be making my weekly subs to the ALAEA,and more importantly,I would be on about a third of the wage I am now.
I would suggest after our last eba your actually doing better than ever
And if I am wrong and youre not in the upper levels, then I would still assume that you are Avionics. And if you arent licenced on everything by now that Qantas flys after 30 years in the industry, then the reason for your lack of training is simple really. Its YOU!!
At the end of the day,my licence is MY licence and not Qantas's,so if training LAMEs was simply left to Qantas or other carriers,and we werent able to train ourselves, we would probably be a lot further down the track of a licencing system where the employer totally dictates who is trained and how many "approvals" are issued by QA.
Maybe that is what worked in Mother Russia in the old days pal, but if it wasnt for organisations such as Queensland Aerospace,JTP and the like, then you would likely have a lot less guys out there as fellow union members,and we would likely see a much weaker system where we would now be hiring foreigners on 457 visas instead of employing Aussies in what is a good industry.
also) it suggests to me that this is a tongue in cheek comment and you are not all that happy and you are certainly not alone there Bug-a-lugs.