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Jetstar A330 Osaka - Gold Coast

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Jetstar A330 Osaka - Gold Coast

Old 12th Jun 2009, 00:06
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Originally Posted by Shot Nancy
NAS Agana closed in 95 or so but the memories of the Trench Bar and throwing all of those screwed up USD1 bills on to the floor remain.
You threw them on the floor??? That's not how I remember Guam on my occasional stops there back in the good ol' days!

Though I never landed at Agana (we always went up the road to Anderson) I recall that getting in was never much of an issue, with quite good radar control. Certainly there are far worse places to divert into.

Razor, the Naval Air Station was actually at Agana, now the civil airport. It was a joint military/civil field until the NAS was closed in the 90s. You are correct in saying that Anderson AFB, which is still fully operational, is at the north-eastern tip of Guam. Agana is in the middle, closer to the hills.

Last edited by DutchRoll; 12th Jun 2009 at 00:16.
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Old 12th Jun 2009, 01:10
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In my time , Agana also was known as Brewer Field Naval Air Station.
Who can remember , just down the road , Barneys-by-the Sea and the Viking Tavern. Aahhh the things those girls could do with a rolled up dollar note.

Last edited by HANOI; 12th Jun 2009 at 01:21.
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Old 12th Jun 2009, 02:38
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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The Scarebus!!!

I was just watching the news and watched 3 reports in a row about the Airbus. First, that the airspeed sensors may not be the cause of he Air France crash. Second, the cockpit fire on the Jetstar A3330 (thats right, the A3330. You read it here first, apparently Jetstar now flys a previously unknown type!) and then a report on an A320 that had 'engine troubles.' Prepare yourself for a few months of media hype about every Airbus snag. God help us if they get hold of any airline safety mags.
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Old 12th Jun 2009, 07:43
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Thanks Dutch - just like flying you learn something everyday
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Old 13th Jun 2009, 03:32
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You threw them on the floor???
Of course! I will let you think about the ways the barmaid could pick them up.
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Old 13th Jun 2009, 04:00
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Beat ups

Holy Smoke! Reading some of the infantile comments on this thread the casual observer could be forgiven for thinking a heated window arcing is a hitherto unheard of event. Window filaments arcing and transformers burning out has been happening almost since day one of having heated cockpit windows. Seems to me that having handled the abnormality and conducted a diversion to Guam the crew did exactly what they considered appropriate. Some posters give the media a bagging for beating up the airlines. Maybe those same posters ought to take a look at their own contributions and consider how uninformed and 'off thread' they are.
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Old 13th Jun 2009, 09:11
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Well the aircraft will be in good hands for sure,knowing that the Base Maintenance A330 Operations Manager has been sent to Guam to save the world.

The only question I have is that if you put someone in the position to be an Ops Manager of a fleet type would it not be prudent to have them licenced on that type. Or at least give him famil course.
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Old 13th Jun 2009, 10:29
  #48 (permalink)  
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the Base Maintenance A330 Operations Manager has been sent to Guam to save the world.
The only question I have is that if you put someone in the position to be an Ops Manager of a fleet type would it not be prudent to have them licenced on that type
Oh.....Umm.....Do you need to be....?

Now that would be logical, and logic and 'a certain operator' don't seem to fit into the same sentence.
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Old 13th Jun 2009, 11:31
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Air France had a 77W divert to a very cold snow covered airfield around 2 years ago after the F/O's window overheated, sparked and caught fire.

It happens to the best as well!!
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Old 15th Jun 2009, 07:37
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Witwiw, give us a break, a first time into a unfamiliar airport is always a bit stressful, without the added problem of a possibly unstable window is NOT the way you want to spend the night, top marks to the crew both tech and cabin, for a job well done.
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Old 15th Jun 2009, 11:33
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BCF's in the 21st century?

You people must have quaint little outfits dunnunda, running around with BCFs on the flight decks. Somewhere in the back of my fuddled brain, I remember most reputable airlines (read environmentally friendly) got rid of them and replaced them with halon extinguishers back in the 20th century.
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Old 15th Jun 2009, 12:47
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Replaced BCF with Halon last century!

got rid of them and replaced them with halon extinguishers back in the 20th century.
Bromochlorodifluoromethane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Befuddleds right...
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Old 16th Jun 2009, 02:57
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You missed the point, Teresa Green. Your words were
into a unknown airport
My point is it shouldn't have been so because the regs require pilots to be familiar with the route, sometimes even physically route endorsed, for RPT ops. And that would include being familiar with all the likely alternate airports even if they hadn't actually been there. I do stand by my statement if the operator is using the sim properly then the crews should at least have had exposure that way. If it was "unknown" then something is wrong - which was my point.

Incidentally, why would the window be "possibly unstable"? Boeing windows don't do that without heat, you are just required to slow down at lower levels. I would have expected Airbus windows were the same. Maybe a 'Bus driver can clarify?
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Old 16th Jun 2009, 03:10
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Ofcourse the window was possibly unstable. Likewise the crew would probably not have been to that port before. You can't get familiar with a place by flying over it on a route check.
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Old 16th Jun 2009, 06:09
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Befuddled - I don't think so!

Bloggs, what is the color of your extinguisher? Yellow (a la BCF/carcinogenic/banned) or Red (a la Halon (the non-carcinogenic/approved) one?

I am not certain of the type of halon in our extinguishers, except that it is "approved". What I am certain about (i.e. not befuddled) is that somewhere in the late '90s, the yellow BCF was banned (possibly with the exception of Oz).
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Old 16th Jun 2009, 06:27
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I'm begining to wonder if Teresa Green or Kellykelpie are that versed on industry requirements otherwise they wouldn't have trouble grasping the point. For their benefit, the following extracts from the CAOs and the CARs. My emphasis on selected passages:-

From the CAOs:
9 Obligations in relation to route and area qualifications
9.1 Subject to paragraph 9.2, an operator must ensure that a pilot does not act as pilot in
command of an aircraft engaged in a regular public transport service unless the pilot
meets the requirements of subregulation 218 (1).
9.2 Where a pilot has completed an audio-visual briefing as set out in Appendix 2 in
respect of a proposed flight, the pilot is to be taken to have met the requirements of
subregulation 218 (1) in respect of the aerodrome or route which was the subject of
the briefing, if the briefing occurs:

3.7 Briefing for route qualification
3.7.1 For the purposes of 3.5.2 (c) and 3.5.2 (e), the briefing for route qualifications is to
consist of a set of 35mm colour slides and a matched pre-recorded cassette tape
covering as many of the following points as may be relevant to the route under
discussion:
(a) geographic location of the aerodromes comprising the route;
(b) administration:
(i) local time zones;
(ii) documentation to be carried;
(iii) prerequisite qualifications (e.g. physical entry or audio-visual briefing for any
of the en-route aerodromes);
(iv) customs, health and immigration requirements for crew and/or passengers;
(v) fuel policy;
(vi) special equipment or extra personnel to be carried;
(c) navigation and flight-planning:
(i) planned route and alternates/emergency airfields;
(ii) special navigational techniques or limitations;
(iii) controlled airspace/restricted airspace;
(iv) maps and charts;
(v) flight planning;
(vi) weather;
(d) in-flight procedures:
(i) communications;
(ii) altimetry and Air Traffic Control procedures;
(iii) reporting points;

From the CARs:
218 Route qualifications of pilot in command of a regular
public transport aircraft
(1) A pilot is qualified to act in the capacity of pilot in command
of an aircraft engaged in a regular public transport service if the
pilot is qualified for the particular route to be flown in
accordance with the following requirements:
(a) the pilot shall have been certified as competent for the
particular route by a pilot who is qualified for that route;
(b) the pilot shall have made at least one trip over that route
within the preceding 12 months as a pilot member of the
operating crew of an aircraft engaged in any class of
operation;
(c) the pilot shall have an adequate knowledge of the route to
be flown, the aerodromes which are to be used and the
designated alternate aerodromes, including a knowledge
of:
(i) the terrain;
(ii) the seasonal meteorological conditions;
(iii) the meteorological, communication and air traffic
facilities, services and procedures;
(iv) the search and rescue procedures; and
(v) the navigational facilities;
associated with the route to be flown;
(d) the pilot shall have demonstrated either in flight or by
simulated means that he or she is proficient in the use of
instrumental approach-to-land systems which he or she
may utilise in operations on that route; and
(e) the pilot possesses such other qualifications (if any) as
CASA specifies in relation to that route having regard to
any special difficulties of that route.
(1A) A pilot must not act in the capacity of pilot in command of an
aircraft engaged in a regular public transport service if the pilot
is not qualified in accordance with subregulation (1).

There it is, nobody ever said you do it "by flying over it on a route check." My point is that it wouldn't have been an "unknown" airport. If the operator is abiding by the rules, as I expect they are, then the pilots would have been adequately briefed.

Kellykelpie - are you a 'Bus driver? If so, please explain the "unstable" window to me. I'd be informed appropriately along with many others if you can. I don't believe from the reports that it was cracked (that would make it unstable), bolts missing a-la the Trident (that was unstable) so how is it an electrical short makes the window unstable.

Apologies for the long post, but it appears to be necessary to get the point to sink in.
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Old 16th Jun 2009, 08:01
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Capn Bloggs,

BCF is a Halon according to your same reference source.

Halon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Halon 1211 (bromochlorodifluoromethane, CF2ClBr)

So I'm wondering why the supposed ban on one and not the other? In my "quaint little outfits dunnunda" we still have BCFs all over the place, including on the aircraft.


Regards,
BH.
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Old 16th Jun 2009, 12:52
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BCF = 1211, correct.

There are certain applications where BCF/1211 is still approved. The following extracts from the current Australian regulations might clarify matters (with my highlighting):

Ozone Protection and Synthetic
Greenhouse Gas Management
Regulations 1995
304 Offence — possessing halon
(1) On or after 1 November 2005, a person must not possess halon
that is, or has been, for use in fire protection equipment unless:
(a) subregulation (4) applies to the equipment; or ………..

[sub-regs 2 & 3 deleted]


(4) This subregulation applies to equipment that:
(a) is used by the Defence Force in:
(i) a Collins Class submarine; or
(ii) an FFG7 Class destroyer; or
(iii) an ANZAC Class frigate; or
(iv) an Assault Landing Vehicle; or
(b) is installed in, or carried in, an aircraft; or
(c) is installed in an enclosed space containing machinery,
[balance of this sub-reg deleted]


Hope this helps.
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Old 16th Jun 2009, 16:13
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Windowzzzz

WITWIW

As for your comment on FLT Deck windows

-Incidentally, why would the window be "possibly unstable"? Boeing windows don't do that without heat, you are just required to slow down at lower levels. I would have expected Airbus windows were the same. Maybe a 'Bus driver can clarify?

I do believe A330 cockpit windows are structurally sound without window heat " ON " but as for some BOEING aircraft, the heat feature enhances their impact strength................thats what I've ben told...FYI

TH
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Old 16th Jun 2009, 22:22
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Turtlehead, yes that's correct, hence the Boeing requirement (737, at least) to slow down at lower levels to account for the reduced impact tolerance. They are, however, in no way "unstable" and there are no limitations at upper altitudes without window heat. Now, if you are correct about the Airbus windows not requiring heat to maintain their integrity, I go back to my query about how there is anything "unstable" about them in such circumstances?
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