Jet* NZ Interview.
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NOT CORRECT!!! The bonus is now guaranteed, 20k for the first year,then 15k plus a company performance bonus for the following years( similar to jitconnect I believe??) and most other conditions are very similar to the mainland conditions, ( ie pay for jepps and medicals, but uniforms, carpark etc all provided.)Company still pays super, but the silly kiwi one( was told only 1 or 2% )
I believe the base pay is now higher then jetconnect and pacblues.
The company has re done the contract as many like fruet mich have brought to the attention of the company the conditions of the bonus payouts. They are also paying for the move to new zealand for the guys coming across from J* Aust for 12 -18mths or so initially.
I believe the base pay is now higher then jetconnect and pacblues.
The company has re done the contract as many like fruet mich have brought to the attention of the company the conditions of the bonus payouts. They are also paying for the move to new zealand for the guys coming across from J* Aust for 12 -18mths or so initially.
Last edited by pigdriver; 5th May 2009 at 23:47.
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There is a reason PB FA's and Pilots boycott the Chrismas social event, and hold there own the day before. That has been going on for years. It speaks volumes when this segment of the workforce turns down free drinks!
Yeah.. some of us are gettin old....
Yes.. PB has it's problems too
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If I were in Jetconnect the Alarm bells would be ringing, The Death star has moved well into firing range of Jetconnect, I posted somthing a while ago re the ChCh base heads up for the guys and was shot down now look.
Will Qantas run the Tasman yes but it will be with Mainline crew overnighting why do you need an entire base to do that?
Qantas has defered 738 orders so not shure where JC are getting there NG's from? You can just here it now due to increased compartion global down turn, best fleet use Bla bla...QF will work the Tasman along side JetStar.... BOOM! bases closed..
Dam the old JC 73 "parked up" in ch gotta be of some concern jump that sinking ship lads!
Will Qantas run the Tasman yes but it will be with Mainline crew overnighting why do you need an entire base to do that?
Qantas has defered 738 orders so not shure where JC are getting there NG's from? You can just here it now due to increased compartion global down turn, best fleet use Bla bla...QF will work the Tasman along side JetStar.... BOOM! bases closed..
Dam the old JC 73 "parked up" in ch gotta be of some concern jump that sinking ship lads!
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Cpt
QF's defered 738s were scheduled for delivery next year. The first of JC's 800s will in NZ in August. Having said that, that JC will still be around once Jet* is accepted by the punters is anybodies guess!
QF's defered 738s were scheduled for delivery next year. The first of JC's 800s will in NZ in August. Having said that, that JC will still be around once Jet* is accepted by the punters is anybodies guess!
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I never thought i would see the day cabin crew earn more then the guys/gals driving the thing
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Pig Driver, is that gauranteed bonus for Capt's and FO's? I have the contract dated Jan 2009 and nothing mentioned? Have you got a new contract?
The Jetconnect bonus is a guaranteed retention bonus and is written as part of the CEA.
Isn't the Jetstar bonus still a company performance bonus and therefore subject to the current aviation environment?
Capt's salarys are very similar if the Jetstar Capt does 85 hrs compared to Jetconnect Capt's doing 65hrs. If the Jetconnect Capt does 65hrs, he or she will earn about $30 less per week. If Jetconnect Capt does 85hrs he or she will earn $600 more per week.
85hrs per month is not guaranteed! It's what management are putting on paper to make the contract look attractive. It's not!
Jetconnect Capt guarateed retention bonus is 1st yr $15k, 2nd yr $18.7k and 3rd year 22k. It increases not decreases.
Becareful with what is put in front of you! Still a much better contract at Jetconnect than Jetstar with regards to remuneration.
About 20% better off at Jetconnect per week as FO doing 65hrs as opposed to 85hrs. If a Jetconnect FO does 85hrs, he or she will take home $500 more per week.
Even with the Jetstars guaranteed bonus, Jetconnect get bonus, DTA and the incentive is about 30% more per hour over 65hrs for Capt's, and 40% more per hr over 65 for FO's.
These are the facts. Remember, Jetconnect has historically been the worst paying jet job in Australasia. Now we have a new kid on the block. Where does it end? Have a wee look on the Jetstar Australia website at the terms and conditions. Why sooo different? Becareful Aus crew, they'll close bases as they have in Adelaide and put you on NZ contracts. Ouch!
I'm sure all you guys belong to a union and can obtain the contracts yourselves through ALPA to do the math.
Cheers
The Jetconnect bonus is a guaranteed retention bonus and is written as part of the CEA.
Isn't the Jetstar bonus still a company performance bonus and therefore subject to the current aviation environment?
Capt's salarys are very similar if the Jetstar Capt does 85 hrs compared to Jetconnect Capt's doing 65hrs. If the Jetconnect Capt does 65hrs, he or she will earn about $30 less per week. If Jetconnect Capt does 85hrs he or she will earn $600 more per week.
85hrs per month is not guaranteed! It's what management are putting on paper to make the contract look attractive. It's not!
Jetconnect Capt guarateed retention bonus is 1st yr $15k, 2nd yr $18.7k and 3rd year 22k. It increases not decreases.
Becareful with what is put in front of you! Still a much better contract at Jetconnect than Jetstar with regards to remuneration.
About 20% better off at Jetconnect per week as FO doing 65hrs as opposed to 85hrs. If a Jetconnect FO does 85hrs, he or she will take home $500 more per week.
Even with the Jetstars guaranteed bonus, Jetconnect get bonus, DTA and the incentive is about 30% more per hour over 65hrs for Capt's, and 40% more per hr over 65 for FO's.
These are the facts. Remember, Jetconnect has historically been the worst paying jet job in Australasia. Now we have a new kid on the block. Where does it end? Have a wee look on the Jetstar Australia website at the terms and conditions. Why sooo different? Becareful Aus crew, they'll close bases as they have in Adelaide and put you on NZ contracts. Ouch!
I'm sure all you guys belong to a union and can obtain the contracts yourselves through ALPA to do the math.
Cheers
Last edited by Fruet Mich; 6th May 2009 at 03:40.
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Bonus is guaranteed for both capt and f/o's, although the amounts are less for the f/o's. 20k for capts, and 10k for the f/o's. Contract was ammended around April.
Have heard they have quite a few nz f/o's coming from other jobs ( eagle, air nelson etc) but as they do not have ratings yet they will be looking for short term contract f/o's to fill the gap until these guys/gals are checked to line.
I think this is similar to what "pigdriver" has said in previous posts.
Have heard they have quite a few nz f/o's coming from other jobs ( eagle, air nelson etc) but as they do not have ratings yet they will be looking for short term contract f/o's to fill the gap until these guys/gals are checked to line.
I think this is similar to what "pigdriver" has said in previous posts.
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Cheers for that. I also heard that the new bonus will go towards paying for your type rating if you're not rated. Plus they bond you for 2 years.
Not good with the new 3 month probation period thats just been bought into the New Zealand employment act. Could hurt forking out all that cash if you get put off and have to pay it back?
Each to their own.
Not good with the new 3 month probation period thats just been bought into the New Zealand employment act. Could hurt forking out all that cash if you get put off and have to pay it back?
Each to their own.
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J* bonus doesnt decrease, still guaranteed at 20k for capts etc every year and 10k for f/o's. Base salary is based on 65 hrs not 85 as mentioned else where. Flying is tasman and domestic, so can plan on 75 hrs per month, and contract was ammended a month or so ago.
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Sweet cheers, I've just re jigged the figures based on what you have said and based on Jetstar bonus guaranteed yearly at $20k.
Jetconnect will earn about the same as Jetstar Capt's doing 65hrs at Jetconnect as opposed to 75 at Jetstar.
Jetconnect FO's will earn 15% more than Jetstar FO's. Thats if Jetstar do 75 and Jetconnect do 65. Thats with all the incentive and bonuses included that you have just outlined.
If Jetconnect pilots do 75 hrs a month, the difference between the two weekly wages becomes hugely in favour of Jetconnect.
Jetconnect get their MBF $1100, medical $350 and jeppersons $??? paid for. So that could chew into the Jetstar weekly wage.
As I said, Jetconnect is at the bottom of the food chain with regards to remuneration. Now a profitable Qantas owned company will pay less.
Cheers
Jetconnect will earn about the same as Jetstar Capt's doing 65hrs at Jetconnect as opposed to 75 at Jetstar.
Jetconnect FO's will earn 15% more than Jetstar FO's. Thats if Jetstar do 75 and Jetconnect do 65. Thats with all the incentive and bonuses included that you have just outlined.
If Jetconnect pilots do 75 hrs a month, the difference between the two weekly wages becomes hugely in favour of Jetconnect.
Jetconnect get their MBF $1100, medical $350 and jeppersons $??? paid for. So that could chew into the Jetstar weekly wage.
As I said, Jetconnect is at the bottom of the food chain with regards to remuneration. Now a profitable Qantas owned company will pay less.
Cheers
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Pigdriver,
The figures touted by Jetstar to try and sell this contract were based on a rate of effort of 85 hours per month.
This is unachievable on the routes anticipated to be conducted by Jetstar NZ. You guys need to have a good think about that fact.
Anther fact is that the contract was increased in April due to the lack of interest. Imagine what will happen if they don't get the numbers required in this latest substandard contract. Well guess what - they will up the contract again.
The figures touted by Jetstar to try and sell this contract were based on a rate of effort of 85 hours per month.
This is unachievable on the routes anticipated to be conducted by Jetstar NZ. You guys need to have a good think about that fact.
Anther fact is that the contract was increased in April due to the lack of interest. Imagine what will happen if they don't get the numbers required in this latest substandard contract. Well guess what - they will up the contract again.
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Exactly, people are so keen to fly a big shinny jet that they subsidise their any chance, and any others behind them, to earn a fair wage for their past years of hard work, WTF? Crazy!!
Suddenly the worst paid jet job in Australasia "Jetconnect and Pac Blue" look like a bloody good option.
Jetstar can tout their great "new" terms and conditions, they'll tell you what you need to hear but in reality it's still a long way off the mark. It's still an absolute insult to most pilots intelligence, but still, us so called "intelligent" pilots take the bait and continue to bastardise what was a good industry. We're a great breed!!
This contract will continue to get better for Captains as they will not find enough experienced guys to work for that shyte. On the other hand we might see a first, with FO's salarys becoming maybe 40% of a Captains. Why, because there are always going to be young boys and girls looking for their lucky break to fly a jet. Jetstar management know we will **** all over each other to get ahead!!
Whats the answer? Get together and say no! Otherwise we will literally earn a bus drivers wage and we in NZ will be the laughing stock of all other aviation nations and of all professions. We're already are I guess, hense the contract offer from Jetstar?
Jetstar, I can't wait for the industry to take off again and leave you with your pants down, I'll and most others will laugh our tits off!
Suddenly the worst paid jet job in Australasia "Jetconnect and Pac Blue" look like a bloody good option.
Jetstar can tout their great "new" terms and conditions, they'll tell you what you need to hear but in reality it's still a long way off the mark. It's still an absolute insult to most pilots intelligence, but still, us so called "intelligent" pilots take the bait and continue to bastardise what was a good industry. We're a great breed!!
This contract will continue to get better for Captains as they will not find enough experienced guys to work for that shyte. On the other hand we might see a first, with FO's salarys becoming maybe 40% of a Captains. Why, because there are always going to be young boys and girls looking for their lucky break to fly a jet. Jetstar management know we will **** all over each other to get ahead!!
Whats the answer? Get together and say no! Otherwise we will literally earn a bus drivers wage and we in NZ will be the laughing stock of all other aviation nations and of all professions. We're already are I guess, hense the contract offer from Jetstar?
Jetstar, I can't wait for the industry to take off again and leave you with your pants down, I'll and most others will laugh our tits off!
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Fruet Mich: Couldn't agree more. We've got to collectively say no. It's absolute BS. Why would anyone sell their soul just to fly something with swept wings?
Mad...and stupid. I used to bang on and on about paying for type ratings when it first came about. Now the industry (us!) has got used to it and we don't talk about it any more. But paying for medicals and charts? WTF?
As if the low pay wasn't bad enough already but all these "incidental" costs? On top of a huge debt for a type rating?
Here's an idea. Go to a properly qualified investment advisor and put the numbers across the table. Tell them you're going to shell out the thick end of $50k which you'll also pay interest on, then you'll sit in a global recession working for a new LCC that doesn't have either high yields or anything resembling a market share. It's a bad deal. Walk away.
Mad...and stupid. I used to bang on and on about paying for type ratings when it first came about. Now the industry (us!) has got used to it and we don't talk about it any more. But paying for medicals and charts? WTF?
As if the low pay wasn't bad enough already but all these "incidental" costs? On top of a huge debt for a type rating?
Here's an idea. Go to a properly qualified investment advisor and put the numbers across the table. Tell them you're going to shell out the thick end of $50k which you'll also pay interest on, then you'll sit in a global recession working for a new LCC that doesn't have either high yields or anything resembling a market share. It's a bad deal. Walk away.
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Pacblue still doesnt look, nor will it ever look like a good job !!! Lets remember they were the ones who started all this rot in the first place!!!!
Have heard two of the J* NZ capts going are both from pacblue.
Have heard two of the J* NZ capts going are both from pacblue.
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While ever there is GA, there will be no shortage of applicants for these crappy jobs. QF are laughing at all of us; we are like seagulls fighting over a potato chip at the beach.
ZK-NSN is 100% correct. It is all one company as is QLINK/EAA/SSA as WAS SAA. Some of us have been under the QF banner for 20 PLUS
years and we are still getting screwed ie SAA; closure if bases with families in schools and wives at work etc. QF having been doing for years and thay are not going to stop, especially now as things really start to tighten up. It's all about "who is going to provide the cheapest labour costs."
No company can control the price of crude; nav charges,medicals;Jepps yada yada yada.
THE ONLY THING THAT ANY OF THESE COMPANIES HAVE CONTROL OVER ARE LABOUR COSTS. THE SOONER ALL OF YOU REALISE THAT THE BETTER OFF WE ALL WILL BE.
Its a game people. And we will always come last whilst this is the collective rationale out there
End of Rant
ZK-NSN is 100% correct. It is all one company as is QLINK/EAA/SSA as WAS SAA. Some of us have been under the QF banner for 20 PLUS
years and we are still getting screwed ie SAA; closure if bases with families in schools and wives at work etc. QF having been doing for years and thay are not going to stop, especially now as things really start to tighten up. It's all about "who is going to provide the cheapest labour costs."No company can control the price of crude; nav charges,medicals;Jepps yada yada yada.
THE ONLY THING THAT ANY OF THESE COMPANIES HAVE CONTROL OVER ARE LABOUR COSTS. THE SOONER ALL OF YOU REALISE THAT THE BETTER OFF WE ALL WILL BE.
Its a game people. And we will always come last whilst this is the collective rationale out there
End of Rant
Last edited by Normasars; 8th May 2009 at 23:02.
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You kiwis have short memories;
If you want to know who started the great plunge from the cliff-of-plenty, then look no further than the start-up of FreedomAir! Barely $100K NZ (so about $2.50 in any other country
) for Captains.
So don't be bleating about the stupidity of pilots who choose to increase their income by coming to JQ (or PacBlue or Jetconnect) from whatever lower paid GA/regional job they're currently at. And some of them will be doing it for the very wise reason of increasing their experience/exposure level so that they can be more employable down the road.
In this modern age, the choice between B734 v. A320 hours is a no-brainer.
Oh, and BTW, I've been able to sneak a peak at some sample rosters for the NZ operation; they are predicated on pilots flying the quoted 85 hours each month. The low cost model is based on high pilot utilisation!
Still and all, if it's all about the money and no other considerations matter, then you're in the wrong part of the world for starters and you don't even know it!
If you want to know who started the great plunge from the cliff-of-plenty, then look no further than the start-up of FreedomAir! Barely $100K NZ (so about $2.50 in any other country
) for Captains.So don't be bleating about the stupidity of pilots who choose to increase their income by coming to JQ (or PacBlue or Jetconnect) from whatever lower paid GA/regional job they're currently at. And some of them will be doing it for the very wise reason of increasing their experience/exposure level so that they can be more employable down the road.
In this modern age, the choice between B734 v. A320 hours is a no-brainer.
Oh, and BTW, I've been able to sneak a peak at some sample rosters for the NZ operation; they are predicated on pilots flying the quoted 85 hours each month. The low cost model is based on high pilot utilisation!
Still and all, if it's all about the money and no other considerations matter, then you're in the wrong part of the world for starters and you don't even know it!
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Well said Rad alt alive !!
I couldnt agree more. I reckin most of the rubbish we are reading on here is from a few jitconnect guys who are worried about the new player on the team..And lets not forget what they were all happy to work for when it started !!!!!
I couldnt agree more. I reckin most of the rubbish we are reading on here is from a few jitconnect guys who are worried about the new player on the team..And lets not forget what they were all happy to work for when it started !!!!!
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Yeah we're in the wrong part of the world! I can't wait to head up to work in the sand! Not.
We're in the right part of the world. And always will be.
I think what we are all trying to say here is NO! Of course people are going to want to get ahead in their respective profession. But lets not do it at the expense of our industry. If we hold out we will be paid better.
So what you are trying to say is that a guy flying an A320 in NZ should start on $65000 because it's good for him to get ahead so he can move on to better things? Good help the industry, thats exactly how it's come to this. If it's good for the goose it's good for the ganda.
As I've said before, currently the Aus Jetstar pilots are being paid ok. Wait till they make your positions redundant and send you to the NZ base and you take a huge pay cut. I guess thats just tough. Collectively, the industry needs to nip this in the butt. Or we'll all keep taking it in the butt from these managers taking home huge bonuses at our expense.
You do realise that these guys taking the job at Jetstar will earn roughly what you would flying an ATR72 for Mt Cook. Mt cook get 11 days off and don't work anywhere near 85hrs!
Mt Cook ATR72 FO $60,000 base. $12-$14000 in allowances and 8.75% super. Not far off ay. 180 seats to 68 seats. Work that out. WTF!!!
I rest my case. If you all want to sell nana and give your left testie or titti for that matter, knock yourselves out! The water may be a little chilly for those people who have accepted these terms and conditions.
We're in the right part of the world. And always will be.
I think what we are all trying to say here is NO! Of course people are going to want to get ahead in their respective profession. But lets not do it at the expense of our industry. If we hold out we will be paid better.
So what you are trying to say is that a guy flying an A320 in NZ should start on $65000 because it's good for him to get ahead so he can move on to better things? Good help the industry, thats exactly how it's come to this. If it's good for the goose it's good for the ganda.
As I've said before, currently the Aus Jetstar pilots are being paid ok. Wait till they make your positions redundant and send you to the NZ base and you take a huge pay cut. I guess thats just tough. Collectively, the industry needs to nip this in the butt. Or we'll all keep taking it in the butt from these managers taking home huge bonuses at our expense.
You do realise that these guys taking the job at Jetstar will earn roughly what you would flying an ATR72 for Mt Cook. Mt cook get 11 days off and don't work anywhere near 85hrs!
Mt Cook ATR72 FO $60,000 base. $12-$14000 in allowances and 8.75% super. Not far off ay. 180 seats to 68 seats. Work that out. WTF!!!
I rest my case. If you all want to sell nana and give your left testie or titti for that matter, knock yourselves out! The water may be a little chilly for those people who have accepted these terms and conditions.
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Fruity, old bean...
I do hear what you're saying (even when you write 'good' instead of 'god', and 'ganda' instead of 'gander' - but I'll not be too critical ), but I have to disagree.
If it came down to a dollar-for-dollar comparison between an ATR job and an A320 job, then I'd still choose the A320. "For why" I hear you ask? Lots of reasons - more comfortable place to spend 8 hours a day, a smoother, quieter place to spend those 8 hours, climbs out of the turbulence you kiwi's seem to have to live with day-to-day, and twice as many 'good sorts' to spend the day joking with (cabin crew for those who didn't twig).
But it's not a dollar-for-dollar comparison; for starters, by your own figures, it's 8.3% more to the jet jockey if neither flies a single hour. Then you mention 85 hours. If that A320 F/O works those 85 hours that you mention, then he'll/she'll be far and away better off than the ATR pilot. And from memory, NZ-based pilots will get paid an hourly allowance too. Add it all up and it's not too shabby. It's certainly not fantastic, but nor is it pauper's money!
One last point that I think is relevant in this day and age; the speed/weight/pax formula died a rightful death many years ago. Just because something is bigger and faster than another type, doesn't mean that we are entitled to earn that much again as the smaller/slower/less pax type. Sure, we all expect a bit more (and we all tend to get a bit more) for flying heavier metal, but reasonableness must prevail and has prevailed. Let's be fairdinkum here (for kiwi's, that's 'fair suck of the sav'), a QF B744 Captain does not earn 7 times the pay of a Dash8 (-300) Captain, or 11 times a SF340 Captain, or even twice a B767 Captain!
And when I made the comment about being in the wrong part of the world, it was on the basis of remuneration, not from a lifestyle/natural assets perspective. I think NZ is a truly gorgeous place.
Shame it's wasted on the kiwi's then. Ay?
I do hear what you're saying (even when you write 'good' instead of 'god', and 'ganda' instead of 'gander' - but I'll not be too critical
), but I have to disagree.If it came down to a dollar-for-dollar comparison between an ATR job and an A320 job, then I'd still choose the A320. "For why" I hear you ask? Lots of reasons - more comfortable place to spend 8 hours a day, a smoother, quieter place to spend those 8 hours, climbs out of the turbulence you kiwi's seem to have to live with day-to-day, and twice as many 'good sorts' to spend the day joking with (cabin crew for those who didn't twig).
But it's not a dollar-for-dollar comparison; for starters, by your own figures, it's 8.3% more to the jet jockey if neither flies a single hour. Then you mention 85 hours. If that A320 F/O works those 85 hours that you mention, then he'll/she'll be far and away better off than the ATR pilot. And from memory, NZ-based pilots will get paid an hourly allowance too. Add it all up and it's not too shabby. It's certainly not fantastic, but nor is it pauper's money!
One last point that I think is relevant in this day and age; the speed/weight/pax formula died a rightful death many years ago. Just because something is bigger and faster than another type, doesn't mean that we are entitled to earn that much again as the smaller/slower/less pax type. Sure, we all expect a bit more (and we all tend to get a bit more) for flying heavier metal, but reasonableness must prevail and has prevailed. Let's be fairdinkum here (for kiwi's, that's 'fair suck of the sav'), a QF B744 Captain does not earn 7 times the pay of a Dash8 (-300) Captain, or 11 times a SF340 Captain, or even twice a B767 Captain!
And when I made the comment about being in the wrong part of the world, it was on the basis of remuneration, not from a lifestyle/natural assets perspective. I think NZ is a truly gorgeous place.
Shame it's wasted on the kiwi's then. Ay?