Qantas will be dead in 6 months
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Professor....Can you tell me who is responsible for the current economic mess....
The highly unionised and inefficient workforce ...or the highly organised but manipulative and greedy management and boards of several banks and large organisations?
Basically what you are saying is that the less people are paid the more efficient they become....pity that this same philosophy is not applied to directors and CEO's...
However..you are honest enough to admit the real and only purpose of J*.
The highly unionised and inefficient workforce ...or the highly organised but manipulative and greedy management and boards of several banks and large organisations?
Basically what you are saying is that the less people are paid the more efficient they become....pity that this same philosophy is not applied to directors and CEO's...
Jetstar was NEVER set up to last in its current form for more than the short term.
Jetstar is the weapon of choice to finally cut a swathe through the highly unionised and inefficient QF mainline staff.
Jetstar is the weapon of choice to finally cut a swathe through the highly unionised and inefficient QF mainline staff.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Beyond The Envelope
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Professor..Absolutes
Prof...you always talk in absolutes as though there is no other point of view to be considered.
Secondly the American Aviation industry is a mess.Try comentating on that for a change.An American telling others how to run an airline is highly amusing.
Also Joyce has publicly stated that Jetstar has gone as far as it can with shifting capacity on to loss making QF routes.
Delta's only threat to anyone is to itself.$794 million loss indicates that perhaps there is something wrong with their business model.Selling seats at $550 return on the Pacific is not a good way to make profit.Higher yield business travel has contracted by 20% so good luck with the yield there
Secondly the American Aviation industry is a mess.Try comentating on that for a change.An American telling others how to run an airline is highly amusing.
Also Joyce has publicly stated that Jetstar has gone as far as it can with shifting capacity on to loss making QF routes.
Delta's only threat to anyone is to itself.$794 million loss indicates that perhaps there is something wrong with their business model.Selling seats at $550 return on the Pacific is not a good way to make profit.Higher yield business travel has contracted by 20% so good luck with the yield there
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Delta's only threat to anyone is to itself.$794 million loss indicates that perhaps there is something wrong with their business model.
that's tantamount to saying Qantas's loss of 500 million (or maybe even more as it is only a conservative estimate) this financial year indicates that surely something is wrong with the Qantas business model. Delta service a much bigger country domestically with three times more competition than just one virgin blue, so the loss I'd say is far less alarming than what precious Qantas with little to nil competition is losing at the moment and on a daily basis.
Just because Qantas had gone thru a couple of world events that affact aviation does not mean it will go through this one unharmed.
As did Lehman Brothers had gone thru so many world events, it has been doing business far longer than Qantas had been flying: over 100 years. it has gone thru the worse of times and yet, it collapse this time. So did AIG, the biggest insurer in the world, now nationalised. These are very profitable business that are far less sensitive than aviation and much less labor intensive than Qantas. Still they have to succumb to this WFC.
To think that a small player like Qantas would come out with more profit and nil cuts to labor cost is really dreaming, just that.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Close to home
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Expert.iriver88
When was the last time Delta made a profit?
That $700 million loss was for Q1 not a full year
Just like GM and a number of othe American companies Delta lives behind Chapter !!.This just about guarantees longevity for any company no matter how badly run.Commerce has been around for few hundred years so that ridiculous Lehmann Brothers analogy with aviation and Qantas in particular is absurd.
If all the companies you mention were well run they would still be in business.Technically some of the financial companies have been insolvent for years.
Intersting to note that al the major economic drama in the last 100 years has emanated from the states.
Qantas will survive this because it essentialy a sound business.The Delta intrusion is simply an annoyance which will have greater ramifications for VAustralia.It will also serve to keep SingAir off the Pacific.Incidentally it has only been the last few years that QF has made a substantila profit on the route
That $700 million loss was for Q1 not a full year
Just like GM and a number of othe American companies Delta lives behind Chapter !!.This just about guarantees longevity for any company no matter how badly run.Commerce has been around for few hundred years so that ridiculous Lehmann Brothers analogy with aviation and Qantas in particular is absurd.
If all the companies you mention were well run they would still be in business.Technically some of the financial companies have been insolvent for years.
Intersting to note that al the major economic drama in the last 100 years has emanated from the states.
Qantas will survive this because it essentialy a sound business.The Delta intrusion is simply an annoyance which will have greater ramifications for VAustralia.It will also serve to keep SingAir off the Pacific.Incidentally it has only been the last few years that QF has made a substantila profit on the route
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
The actual Lehman Brothers sold the business in 1969. Since then it was run by American Express until 1994. After that AMEX divested itself of the business. It lasted 14 years after that.
Iriver88, we all get it. You can't wait till QF goes down. But do us all a favour and stick to what you know? That should keep the posts to a bare minimum.
Iriver88, we all get it. You can't wait till QF goes down. But do us all a favour and stick to what you know? That should keep the posts to a bare minimum.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
why is qantas so precious? so many other well known companies have gone under and some have come out better, others have gone forever. I do not have to wait for qantas to fall apart, it is a foregone conclusion that it will happen. Those thinking that their jobs are so secure at qantas can continue to dream, no one is stopping you.
Qantas needs to have a huge revamp in its costly labour expenses, Unless mass sackings happen, it will not be able to revamp this high labor cost. For far too long peeps at Qantas have been paid more than what they actually output.
A comparison with American counterparts will see the huge difference in front line staff here being paid way too much for that same output.
The news gets worse for the Australian economy in the next 24 months, and somehow, peeps here think qantas will not be affacted one iota. IMF forecasts was worse than first thought, even the Federal government cannot guarantee no double digits unemployment. In short, it will increasingly be a more difficult place to operate a business. And somehow all at Qantas think precious Qantas will be the only company in Australia totally unaffected with nil sackings whatsoever. Have these people being hypnotised by team managers?
If not, let's begin in unison, "qantas will be the only most profitable business despite everything else is crumbling like cookies" "No one will be sacked , thank God for unions"
there you have it, happy?
Qantas needs to have a huge revamp in its costly labour expenses, Unless mass sackings happen, it will not be able to revamp this high labor cost. For far too long peeps at Qantas have been paid more than what they actually output.
A comparison with American counterparts will see the huge difference in front line staff here being paid way too much for that same output.
The news gets worse for the Australian economy in the next 24 months, and somehow, peeps here think qantas will not be affacted one iota. IMF forecasts was worse than first thought, even the Federal government cannot guarantee no double digits unemployment. In short, it will increasingly be a more difficult place to operate a business. And somehow all at Qantas think precious Qantas will be the only company in Australia totally unaffected with nil sackings whatsoever. Have these people being hypnotised by team managers?
If not, let's begin in unison, "qantas will be the only most profitable business despite everything else is crumbling like cookies" "No one will be sacked , thank God for unions"
there you have it, happy?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: With Ratty and Mole
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Iriver88
What year did you fail economics?
There has been some drivel posted on PPrune over the years but your last post wins the award for the greatest load of dross ever posted in these hallowed halls.
Who said anything about redundancies not being inevitable at Qantas? .No one.
The workforce at QF has been subjected to continous redundancies over the last 10 years.1200 CC have been made redundant over the last six years for example.
Qantas will survive...that is a given.Its structure and direction will be different but it will survive.
Every economic glitch brings about change everywhere.This one is no different.Its all about adapting which is sosmething that QF has been doing since it floated.
Limit your posts to something you know about.Perhaps the price of ferrets in The Grand Bazzar in Istanbul may be your area of expertise.Clearly economics and business cycles are not
There has been some drivel posted on PPrune over the years but your last post wins the award for the greatest load of dross ever posted in these hallowed halls.
Who said anything about redundancies not being inevitable at Qantas? .No one.
The workforce at QF has been subjected to continous redundancies over the last 10 years.1200 CC have been made redundant over the last six years for example.
Qantas will survive...that is a given.Its structure and direction will be different but it will survive.
Every economic glitch brings about change everywhere.This one is no different.Its all about adapting which is sosmething that QF has been doing since it floated.
Limit your posts to something you know about.Perhaps the price of ferrets in The Grand Bazzar in Istanbul may be your area of expertise.Clearly economics and business cycles are not
Last edited by packrat; 23rd Apr 2009 at 10:07.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: utopia
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
iriver88
It's best to stick to the facts. Some useful facts: QF estimates profit to be around 100-200 million; and 3.2 billion in cash. Not too bad in the current economic climate. Your posts- sensationalism at it's best. Ever thought of getting into media
It's best to stick to the facts. Some useful facts: QF estimates profit to be around 100-200 million; and 3.2 billion in cash. Not too bad in the current economic climate. Your posts- sensationalism at it's best. Ever thought of getting into media
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dununda
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
88 Whatever
88 probably the year you were born.Hence the infantile posts.You need to have a lot of supportable fact to post here.You will get flamed mercilessly.As you are no doubt finding out.
You have made 16 or 17 posts all in the space of a few days.Time to draw breath and re evaluate before you crash and burn
You have made 16 or 17 posts all in the space of a few days.Time to draw breath and re evaluate before you crash and burn
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brisbane
Age: 49
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
iriver88, the MP3 player?
The above quote exposes you as a fool. Please check your facts.
Qantas's loss of 500 million
iriver88, man you're like a broken record. Unfortunately I agree with some of what you say but far out, you harp on. I'm sure most know QF will not be untouched during this time but you sound like you've got a calendar on your wall at home so that each day you get home from your journalism degree you can cross off another day until QF goes under.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ozzzzzzz
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
iriver88
It doesn't take much to look through your old posts and see that the only conversations you engage in, are the ones that involve QF failing.
Well good on you mate. Take it else where because I for one am getting sick of listening to you.
If it's because you didn't get in, then move on.
If it's because you 'haven't tried and are not interested' then vent elsewhere.
No real reason for this rant, just getting a little annoyed seeing your nickname and negative comments after it.
It doesn't take much to look through your old posts and see that the only conversations you engage in, are the ones that involve QF failing.
Well good on you mate. Take it else where because I for one am getting sick of listening to you.
If it's because you didn't get in, then move on.
If it's because you 'haven't tried and are not interested' then vent elsewhere.
No real reason for this rant, just getting a little annoyed seeing your nickname and negative comments after it.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is the problem at Qantas, even their front line staff are just as arrogant as Geoff Dixon! Peeps in Qantas behave just like geoff, arrogant, take no personal responsibility for their actions, always looking for others to blame. I have found this to be typical Qantas. Incident at Perth, oh it was a turbulence, exploding O2 bottle, oh it was not our fault, let us find out it must be Boeing. tardiness? oh it was the Engineers strike. FFS when is it that Qantas learn to take some responsibility? Same with their staff, the legcy lives on, oh nothing will happen to the mighty Big Q, anyone who expresses an opinion contrary, they are so negative, they are ****, they are trolls. And please do not flatter yourself, one look at the quality of staff Qantas had taken on shows some really discerning taste, one was sacked before and the re employed only to have sex with passengers in a toilet, another one was found eating sand and metally unstable then locked up in immigration detention but was once upon a time a Qantas staff. Yet another made anti semetic comments in front of passengers...and many others not reported in media who steal, break custom rules, lie even assault one another.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think if you attacked the employees of any Company they would come out and defend themselves. A company like Qantas (as incompetent as is has been for many years) doesnt survive after privatisation unless they are doing a few things right.
At the moment they are one of only three airlines in the world that will show any sort of profit. They are feeling the crunch of an economic crisis never seen before in aviation and we have seen a few recently, and yet all but Peter Harbison and 88 are indicating that qantas will survive albeit after a number of changes.
The Qantas board have started the culling of a number of executives and management where QF had become top heavy. Maintenance is being bought back onshore and a range of other necessary changes to ensure the survival of Qantas will be undertaken
88, nobody disputes that there are a lot of businesses that will go to the wall before the WFC is over, the staff of every company want their organisations to survive and will naturally talk it up. Its not arroganice its hope and confidence.
Qantas receives far less protection and propping up than the american airlines who file of chapter 11 and restructure more often than i have birthdays. Qantas is not state owned and gets little support other than what most countries do to protect their own national carriers with traffic rights.
Qantas has flourished against a level of competition from state owned airlines who are subsidized and given tax breaks and made huge profits. It is also probably the most heavily unionised company in Australia and still managed to achieve all of this.
To suggest that unions have been bad for Qantas is to ignore the facts above. If Unions have been so bad Qantas would have gone the way of the dodo years ago.
I would suggest that incompetent and greedy management have been far more dangerous to the survival of Qantas than the Unions. There hasnt been a Qantas union that had an official jailed or fined for fraud.
Qantas has one former exec in jail in the states and a 69 million dollar fine paid to top it off. That wasnt a Union or arrogant worker it was a management out of control.
Most of us are hopeful that the Gordon Gecko of Qantas Geoff Dixon hasnt damaged us beyond repair. You might think Qantas Staff arrogant but dont underestimate their committment to the airline and they will do whatever it takes to keep it flying.
They may hate their managements excesses but they dont hate the brand nor will they see it go the way of the dodo without much sacrifice if necessary. Just remember the doomsayers have been predicting the demise of Qantas since 1993 and they came through Gulf Wars, SARS, Asian Economic meltdowns, recessions and more and more Competition and are still plugging away
At the moment they are one of only three airlines in the world that will show any sort of profit. They are feeling the crunch of an economic crisis never seen before in aviation and we have seen a few recently, and yet all but Peter Harbison and 88 are indicating that qantas will survive albeit after a number of changes.
The Qantas board have started the culling of a number of executives and management where QF had become top heavy. Maintenance is being bought back onshore and a range of other necessary changes to ensure the survival of Qantas will be undertaken
88, nobody disputes that there are a lot of businesses that will go to the wall before the WFC is over, the staff of every company want their organisations to survive and will naturally talk it up. Its not arroganice its hope and confidence.
Qantas receives far less protection and propping up than the american airlines who file of chapter 11 and restructure more often than i have birthdays. Qantas is not state owned and gets little support other than what most countries do to protect their own national carriers with traffic rights.
Qantas has flourished against a level of competition from state owned airlines who are subsidized and given tax breaks and made huge profits. It is also probably the most heavily unionised company in Australia and still managed to achieve all of this.
To suggest that unions have been bad for Qantas is to ignore the facts above. If Unions have been so bad Qantas would have gone the way of the dodo years ago.
I would suggest that incompetent and greedy management have been far more dangerous to the survival of Qantas than the Unions. There hasnt been a Qantas union that had an official jailed or fined for fraud.
Qantas has one former exec in jail in the states and a 69 million dollar fine paid to top it off. That wasnt a Union or arrogant worker it was a management out of control.
Most of us are hopeful that the Gordon Gecko of Qantas Geoff Dixon hasnt damaged us beyond repair. You might think Qantas Staff arrogant but dont underestimate their committment to the airline and they will do whatever it takes to keep it flying.
They may hate their managements excesses but they dont hate the brand nor will they see it go the way of the dodo without much sacrifice if necessary. Just remember the doomsayers have been predicting the demise of Qantas since 1993 and they came through Gulf Wars, SARS, Asian Economic meltdowns, recessions and more and more Competition and are still plugging away
Please do not feed the troll
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,966
Received 92 Likes
on
53 Posts
What Keg said!
88; When you start attacking individuals your credibility (at least with me) snap rolls and dives.
88; When you start attacking individuals your credibility (at least with me) snap rolls and dives.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People get your facts straight.
No one has attacked any one of you here personally.
All I said was the company could not possible survive in these conditions unless over paid staff are gotten rid off (which do not output much anyway)
For some strange insecure self esteem reasons, members here take it to meant everyone here was deemed incompetent.
Maybe there was some truths to that to begin with.
No one has attacked any one of you here personally.
All I said was the company could not possible survive in these conditions unless over paid staff are gotten rid off (which do not output much anyway)
For some strange insecure self esteem reasons, members here take it to meant everyone here was deemed incompetent.
Maybe there was some truths to that to begin with.
