Qantas will be dead in 6 months
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I'm personally pleased that the Les Pattersons of this world only fly on Asian carriers.
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Stationair8,
I too have seen some of the worst examples of customer service exhibited by check-in staff.
Your comments about cabin crew however, refer mostly to how, in your eyes, SQ girls look better than QF guys and girls.
You really are a loser, although not as big a one as orangputi.
Incidently, as a customer, you pay for service not respect.
Respect you will have to earn.
I too have seen some of the worst examples of customer service exhibited by check-in staff.
Your comments about cabin crew however, refer mostly to how, in your eyes, SQ girls look better than QF guys and girls.
You really are a loser, although not as big a one as orangputi.
Incidently, as a customer, you pay for service not respect.
Respect you will have to earn.
Last edited by twiggs; 5th Jul 2009 at 03:00.
In the last ten years I have paxed with Ansett, Kendalls, Qantas domestic and international, Jetstar, Virgin Blue, AirNorth, National Jet, Eastern, Sunstate, Southern Australian, Impulse, Rex, Singapore, Cathay and KLM.
Singapore is a far superior product to anything that Qantas offers, and that includes from the start of checking in to the way your are looked after inflight.
As far as domestic fllights go AirNorth and National Jet staff seem to understand the concept of looking after the customer and that wins them repeat business, and they go out of their way to provide a good service.
Plenty of companies in Australia have failed over the years, through not giving a stuff about the customer and concentrating on management's bonuses etc.
If I was as good looking as Sir Les, I would be very happy.
Singapore is a far superior product to anything that Qantas offers, and that includes from the start of checking in to the way your are looked after inflight.
As far as domestic fllights go AirNorth and National Jet staff seem to understand the concept of looking after the customer and that wins them repeat business, and they go out of their way to provide a good service.
Plenty of companies in Australia have failed over the years, through not giving a stuff about the customer and concentrating on management's bonuses etc.
If I was as good looking as Sir Les, I would be very happy.
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Singapore is a far superior product to anything that Qantas offers, and that includes from the start of checking in to the way your are looked after inflight.
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It's my experience that you get what you dish out.
If stationair8 feels as though he is being grunted and scowled at and if he describes the crews as fags and hags then it's because thats the way he treats the staff and so it's no wonder he is treated like that.If he behaves like that to staff and makes no secret that he prefers to look at Asian women then it's no wonder.
So no other companies in other counties have gone broke.
It looks like we have a guy here who by his own admission is not as good looking as Sir Les and thats a worry.I would think that he could not get a job with QF or a woman in Australia and is more than a little bitter about it.If he likes being pampered it's no wonder he likes to live in Asia because he likes a happy ending
and he can't get that in Australia.
If stationair8 feels as though he is being grunted and scowled at and if he describes the crews as fags and hags then it's because thats the way he treats the staff and so it's no wonder he is treated like that.If he behaves like that to staff and makes no secret that he prefers to look at Asian women then it's no wonder.
Plenty of companies in Australia have failed over the years
It looks like we have a guy here who by his own admission is not as good looking as Sir Les and thats a worry.I would think that he could not get a job with QF or a woman in Australia and is more than a little bitter about it.If he likes being pampered it's no wonder he likes to live in Asia because he likes a happy ending
and he can't get that in Australia.
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The Basic Qantas Problem
The focus has been on costs and bonuses.
It should be on the customer.
Its been all about leveraging the brand.
In so doing they have trashed it.
They have dropped the ball and no one knows where it is.
Some of the comments....those not targeting the employees...are right.
The current Qantas product is ****e
It should be on the customer.
Its been all about leveraging the brand.
In so doing they have trashed it.
They have dropped the ball and no one knows where it is.
Some of the comments....those not targeting the employees...are right.
The current Qantas product is ****e
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Falling Leaf...So this is all about the price of oil is it?????
Why then was the price of airfares in comparison to the average wage so much higher before the advent of the 747?
I know that even 10 years ago you could pay $1000 for a SYD-BNE ticket with Ansett. Airfares are one of the only products that have not increased in even inflation adjusted dollars.
Did the airlines make a profit when there were far less people flying and airfares were higher......YES and the price of oil was much lower....instead of using aircraft that are so big they have their own postcode maybe it's time to have smaller aircraft and higher fares.....
Is it tru that SQ have a max BMI for their cabin crew, once exceded they are stood down?
Last edited by Metro man; 5th Jul 2009 at 11:43.
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Qantas - it can be saved
In the last ten years I have flown regularly....qantas....lufthansa....singapore...thai....anse tt...kendell...impulse....american...united...flightwest...s kywest...tiger international...ryanair...emirates...malaysian...silkair...b ritish airways...cathay pacific...cebu pacific....philippineair...china southern...garuda indonesia....air north....easterns(had a cockcroach in my bun cabin attendant didnt want to know about it)....nationaljet....
well all I can tell you is one day a QF747 Capt announced that we are in a new level of service as we have now got seat back video's....Singapore had already had them for 8-10 years......its plane and simple....get a better attitude of the people at the coal face...the cabin crew...the check-in staff.... and of course the money men behind the scenes......they are the people who the punter see....or are affected by.
QF can survive but they had better get cracking...after all it is just another SERVICE industry...no service...no customers!!!!!
no different to staying at a nice hotel...or a bad one really!!
or is it the case of QF = Quit Flying
well all I can tell you is one day a QF747 Capt announced that we are in a new level of service as we have now got seat back video's....Singapore had already had them for 8-10 years......its plane and simple....get a better attitude of the people at the coal face...the cabin crew...the check-in staff.... and of course the money men behind the scenes......they are the people who the punter see....or are affected by.
QF can survive but they had better get cracking...after all it is just another SERVICE industry...no service...no customers!!!!!
no different to staying at a nice hotel...or a bad one really!!
or is it the case of QF = Quit Flying
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Retrofit matey
it was a cosmetic retrofit to try and keep up with the worlds best "asian airlines" cabin service...new aircraft...service...plane simple service with a smile at the same price or often LESS...a little tad late I would have thought but then again australia is the worlds biggest island....dreamtime...matey
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Falling Leaf...So this is all about the price of oil is it?????
Yes.
Yes.
Was the price of oil higher than $50 a barrel in the 50's and 60's ?????
You might not have noticed that the price of everything has risen as it does over time.The price of steel,eggs,cabbages,milk,newspapers etc..the list goes on.
However,if that happens the airlines increase the price of a ticket....as I said then all you do is have smaller aircraft and less pax and higher ticket prices.There will always be people with money that will want to fly.
Emu787....No argument from me at all with IFE....they have to lift their game and spend money where it counts.Not with a $10 million dollar waste of money called the center of excellence.....
They still have IFE probs with the 400 and what have they done about it???
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emu
once again you blure the facts. ALL 747 of any airline were retrofittet with the IFE (unless they came new online and had the IFE fitted, eg QF 747 ER). the difference is the manufacturer. SQ Kris system used to have the same failure rate as the rockwell system. however they have been able to get better fixes then the rockwell system. all new QF a/c (A333/332 except domestic) were fitted with the rockwell system(which still plays up).
.
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....my 2 bobs worth
.......emu -you make quite a few valid points.
The QF spin machine works in all forms of the media- advertising, public announcements, AGM's, Qantas News etc.
Its all spun to bluff the punters into changing their perspective ( which I guess is whats commonly referred to as Marketing-)
Take the Qantas News-have a look at the last 3-4 issues and take a close look at the front page pic's-its all "Executives" sitting around looking like they've just come out of a funeral.
Lighten up a bit. We've been through the "Chicken Little" routine long enough under Darth. Sure we're in the crapper. BUT the only way out is to give people a sense of confidence and direction NOT morose posturing from people who are supposedly LEADERS.
As for the IFE. I just returned from LAX ( now referred to as the JQ express-due to the number of first time punters on $900 fares !-but thats another topic on its own) Anyway, on BOTH SECTORS -the IFE shat itself.
We don't even bother apologising any more. And the sad truth is the punters don't really care-they expect it to fail -infact if it works for 13 hours its called a BONUS !
Qantas are really kidding themselves.
Oh woe is me-Delta are on the route. Our once cosy duopoly is now trashed-our profits are going to be reduced.
HELLO WAKE UP YOU CLOWNS-its called competition. If you are r-e-a-l-l-y serious about EXCEPTIONAL SERVICE not just the spin in thinking people are getting it-you need to DELIVER IT !
That means- delivering an exceptional product -not some Rockpool/Woolies inspired mush that passes off for airline food, clean serviceable toilets, an IFE that actually works ( not one that limps and weezes along) AND for the risk of being accused of heresy improved customer service
So there you have it-rant over.
I'm still backing AJ ( he is streets ahead of GD-so far) however, he can't fall back into the old ways of spin, deceit, bullying and managing both the customers and staff by fear.
sj
The QF spin machine works in all forms of the media- advertising, public announcements, AGM's, Qantas News etc.
Its all spun to bluff the punters into changing their perspective ( which I guess is whats commonly referred to as Marketing-
)Take the Qantas News-have a look at the last 3-4 issues and take a close look at the front page pic's-its all "Executives" sitting around looking like they've just come out of a funeral.
Lighten up a bit. We've been through the "Chicken Little" routine long enough under Darth. Sure we're in the crapper. BUT the only way out is to give people a sense of confidence and direction NOT morose posturing from people who are supposedly LEADERS.
As for the IFE. I just returned from LAX ( now referred to as the JQ express-due to the number of first time punters on $900 fares !-but thats another topic on its own) Anyway, on BOTH SECTORS -the IFE shat itself.
We don't even bother apologising any more. And the sad truth is the punters don't really care-they expect it to fail -infact if it works for 13 hours its called a BONUS !
Qantas are really kidding themselves.
Oh woe is me-Delta are on the route. Our once cosy duopoly is now trashed-our profits are going to be reduced.
HELLO WAKE UP YOU CLOWNS-its called competition. If you are r-e-a-l-l-y serious about EXCEPTIONAL SERVICE not just the spin in thinking people are getting it-you need to DELIVER IT !
That means- delivering an exceptional product -not some Rockpool/Woolies inspired mush that passes off for airline food, clean serviceable toilets, an IFE that actually works ( not one that limps and weezes along) AND for the risk of being accused of heresy improved customer service
So there you have it-rant over.
I'm still backing AJ ( he is streets ahead of GD-so far) however, he can't fall back into the old ways of spin, deceit, bullying and managing both the customers and staff by fear.
sj
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Travel by air is far too cheap. SYD-LHR return for 3 weeks pay on the average salary? Do any of these passengers really understand what is involved in getting this done?
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Travel by air is far too cheap. SYD-LHR return for 3 weeks pay on the average salary?
If we are talking about QF and others against the Asian carriers.There will always be people (and notice they are usually men) who want to fly because they like to drool over Asian women and think they are in with half a chance.JJ is right because it doesn't matter how good the IFE is with QF, all they'll be dreaming of is a flight with a happy ending.I have 2 words for them.
AS IF.
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Oil goes up, Airlines decline.
Lowerlobe, once again, I can't really see where you disagree with my generic observation that increasing oil prices results in the decline of the airlines, both in size and profitability.
The answer, as you know, is NO. See the following link:
Historical Crude Oil Prices Table
To summarise, the highest inflation adjusted price in the 50's was $24.42. In the 60's it was $20.88. So oil is significantly more expensive today then it has been for the majority of the history of commercial aviation. And yes, I know tickets are cheaper now, but as I have stated before that is a result of de-regulation, privatisation, decrease in T&C and increased competition etc.
Well actually, along with everyone else who is not yet decomposing, I have noticed. I will go further and ask, are you aware that the price of all these items is also significantly effected (on top of inflation) by the oil price, as oil is a major input into all sectors of the economy, particularly food production and farming techniques.
Were it so easy. However, as the Professor has stated, there is very little price elasticity in the modern airline marketplace. Increase ticket prices a little, and there is a disproportionate decrease in demand. That is why the airlines only passed through a very small percentage of the high oil prices last year onto the ticket price.
Elegant solution, and one I agree with. However, implement that solution at a current legacy carrier (or even a LCC), which has large aircraft and low ticket prices, and tell me whether the result will feel like 'decline' to that airlines staff and shareholders?
Yes, though the number that will be able to afford to fly must decrease.
To expand on my argument. The price of kerosene increasing will hurt the airlines bottom line, but with hedging and price fluctuations, airlines can absorb the extra costs and survive, but they will need to cut costs in other areas (T&C the next biggest cost on the books).
But what will really hurt the airlines is the corresponding fall in GDP as oil increases. All the Recessions in the postwar era, with the exception of the dot.com bubble bursting, were the result of a spike in oil prices.
Oil goes up, GDP contracts, demand contracts, capacity must be reduced.
Feels like decline to me.
This is where your argument falls down as it does with all the other doomsday exponents...
Was the price of oil higher than $50 a barrel in the 50's and 60's ?????
Was the price of oil higher than $50 a barrel in the 50's and 60's ?????
Historical Crude Oil Prices Table
To summarise, the highest inflation adjusted price in the 50's was $24.42. In the 60's it was $20.88. So oil is significantly more expensive today then it has been for the majority of the history of commercial aviation. And yes, I know tickets are cheaper now, but as I have stated before that is a result of de-regulation, privatisation, decrease in T&C and increased competition etc.
You might not have noticed that the price of everything has risen as it does over time.The price of steel,eggs,cabbages,milk,newspapers etc..the list goes on.
However,if that happens the airlines increase the price of a ticket....
as I said then all you do is have smaller aircraft and less pax and higher ticket prices.
There will always be people with money that will want to fly.
To expand on my argument. The price of kerosene increasing will hurt the airlines bottom line, but with hedging and price fluctuations, airlines can absorb the extra costs and survive, but they will need to cut costs in other areas (T&C the next biggest cost on the books).
But what will really hurt the airlines is the corresponding fall in GDP as oil increases. All the Recessions in the postwar era, with the exception of the dot.com bubble bursting, were the result of a spike in oil prices.
Oil goes up, GDP contracts, demand contracts, capacity must be reduced.
Feels like decline to me.
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The Price of Oil
While the price of oil is a factor in any economic cycle it is only one factor.
The price of oil was very high 18 months ago.Aircraft were full and the Australian economy was in overdrive.Now the price has fallen the economy is still ok.
The world does not come to a standstill if the price of oil goes up.The other factors include debt,interest rates and the unemployment rate.Price is determined by demand-China and India provided the catalyst
If wages keep pace with the increase in oil prices and everybody has a job the economy continues to chug along.
When you have very large aircraft that need to be filled then you have problems in a downturn.
Smaller aircraft provide greater flexibility in all economic weather.
Qantas has made some monumental blunders.
The Tripler should have been bought.
The fleet should not have been allowed to age as it has.
Bio Fuels are on the way
Older aircraft are less fuel efficient and when the price of oil goes up it hurts more when the fleet is older.
Qantas will survive but the short termism needs to go.
The Qantas "boys club" has been decimated and now the real work begins
The price of oil was very high 18 months ago.Aircraft were full and the Australian economy was in overdrive.Now the price has fallen the economy is still ok.
The world does not come to a standstill if the price of oil goes up.The other factors include debt,interest rates and the unemployment rate.Price is determined by demand-China and India provided the catalyst
If wages keep pace with the increase in oil prices and everybody has a job the economy continues to chug along.
When you have very large aircraft that need to be filled then you have problems in a downturn.
Smaller aircraft provide greater flexibility in all economic weather.
Qantas has made some monumental blunders.
The Tripler should have been bought.
The fleet should not have been allowed to age as it has.
Bio Fuels are on the way
Older aircraft are less fuel efficient and when the price of oil goes up it hurts more when the fleet is older.
Qantas will survive but the short termism needs to go.
The Qantas "boys club" has been decimated and now the real work begins