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1,750 jobs to go at Qantas

Old 26th May 2009, 05:29
  #321 (permalink)  
 
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Mstr Caution:

The identification process of those positions set for redundancy will continue thru June.
That is cruel and unusual punishment and very bad management.

I'd go so far as to say it's suicidal management technique. The good guys will already be looking for another job. You will be left with the dross.
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Old 26th May 2009, 05:46
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Dont shoot the messenger Sunfish, I agree with your comments.

However, this is how the redundancy process has been communicated to those it directly affects.
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Old 26th May 2009, 05:58
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not shooting the messenger. Senior management should have done their homework long before any announcement. The stress of waiting for the tap on the shoulder will ensure that only minimal work will be being done by those managers under the gun right now. In fact were I in that situation and knowing that I was not a favourite flavour, I'd be thinking of stress leave and a workers compensation claim right now.
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Old 26th May 2009, 07:57
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sunfish

Forty Two days have elapsed since the announcement of QF's plan to cut 1750 positions.

Sixteen PPRuNe pages and 317 posts of mostly speculation about cuts, with a few nuggets about the low hanging fruit - contractors, being told to pack their bags.

This is not good. The reason it is not good is because it indicates, at best, bad management, at worst, it is a form of workplace bullying.

When you cut workforce size, you either do it "quick and dirty" or "slow and clean". The alternative "slow and dirty" maximises the stress on staff.

By "quick and dirty", I mean 1750 people at once get the "Don't come Monday" notice. You always do it on a Friday to give everyone a few days rest. You pay all entitlements absolutely and in my opinion you should also add a bonus on top of that for the associated trauma.

The following Monday morning, you come out with the inspirational message to staff about how those left behind will cope and that there are no more cuts planned and today is a new beginning.

"Slow and clean" on the other hand, involves open consultation with all staff about where the company is going and the statement that not all employees will want, or be allowed, to continue the journey. You then open up negotiations, trot out your VR plan, organise your retraining and job finding scheme, organise send off parties on a weekly basis etc. etc.

The middle way, "Slow and dirty" involves no consultation, deliberate secrecy, the generation of rumours, staccato removal of people with no apparent rhyme or reason over many many weeks. No one is "safe" it is a never ending process.

Yet this "slow and dirty" process seems to be what Qantas has used in the past and is continuing to use which does not in my opinion, bode well for the company. We saw it in the treatment of the poor bloody Melbourne maintenance engineers, today perhaps their work would be outsourced, tomorrow perhaps not. Let them stew. They don't matter. The "Legacy Airline" quote was also a deliberate passive aggressive threat to everyone who worked at mainline - it's a form of workplace bullying.

It seems to me that nothing has changed, unless I am mistaken, and Qantas will continue to treat it's staff with the utter contempt that has become its hallmark, to the detriment of staff, shareholders and the travelling public.
This is precisely what I had been trying so hard to tell people in this thread, much to my disgust, members here gang up against me becos they alleged I was anti-qantas

Please people, just look at how Qantas treats its people

Qantas has never been one to invest in its people, treat its people with respect and listen to its people's concern.

It is one company that treats its people like crap, than push them into mud, jiggle it heaps than take it out of mud and slam it into the wall and watch you slide down in that sorry state
Qantas does not believe anyone but management are the only ones that contributed to its success
Actually also teach its people not to respect each other through its own selfish actions.

It is sad that no one saw this coming, how could you not see this coming?

I wonder why they are getting rid of actually "skilled" labor, as opposed to getting rid of "unskilled" labor, a good place to start looking for 'unskilled" labor should start behind the glass walls at qcc1. From there's it's both moving upwards and downwards and there you have it, all 1750 idiots and totally unskilled of no credentials labor that should have been sacked since Howard left office.

Last edited by heads_down; 26th May 2009 at 08:27.
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Old 26th May 2009, 08:31
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hmm, maybe you are an exception, wonder which cabin crew was last treated to a million dollar development/educational program that actually make them more marketable in terms of skills.

I think all we get is cheese crackers training, scramble eggs training, every 20 minutes tray rounds with snacks training, none of which add value to your skills and none are even recognised by the government as skills.

wonder which team manager had approved marketing business courses for cabin crew to improve their work skills and allow them to branch out in other areas of the wonderful world of qantas to pursue other career opportunities which in turn, make them successful employees.
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Old 26th May 2009, 08:35
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with your last 2 posts heads down.

Unfortunately when management have become the problem, relying on them to fix the problem becomes futile. The only management changes I have seen since the announcement of the cuts are a few new roles created, some side-shuffling, and a few who have jumped ship.

I am sure some minority of staff who have had a moral boost in the arm through either training, promotions, etc, have quickly forgotten. And most definately some dept's are better managed than others. But 99% of the guy's I work with who have been buggered, threatened and outright lied to by former and current management all know where the problems are.

PS: I fix, certify and supervise Group 20 aircraft maintenance as a LAME. Do you think QF would spend a mill on my training? Mate, I walk past differences on aircraft every day that we still have not recieved any CAR training for!!

Last edited by Ngineer; 26th May 2009 at 11:55.
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Old 26th May 2009, 12:11
  #327 (permalink)  
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Heads Down,

Based on your posts, not only am I amazed that you continue to work in an environment that you so clearly hate, but also any investment put forward by Qantas to improve the work skills of someone that feels they are owed this could only be seen as a complete waste of time and money.

Qantas hired you to undertake a particular duty, and for that you are recompensed accordingly. I understand dubious decisions made by equally dubious management types have made aspects of your particular duty frustrating to say the least, but at the end of the day, they owe you nothing.


You sound neither motivated nor interested in remaining part of the group and I'm surprised you haven't made the company's decision to get rid of 1750 people a little easier by voluntarily reducing that figure to 1749.
If you hate the place so much, and it is obvious that you do, just go.
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Old 27th May 2009, 01:28
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34R
I agree with your post!
Heads down is a pain in the @rse and he should simply leave!

Qantas in general have been very good to me and have treated me well/
I go to work I do my job as best as I can, and I am rewarded by a good pay and good conditions, and they are very respectful to me.
I don't get into trouble as I try and follow all their policies and procedures ( after all they employ me)

People like Heads down are an obstacle and he should BLOODY LEAVE...

Why oh why do you stay in a job you hate so much,,,,,just go!
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Old 27th May 2009, 02:01
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Why oh why do you stay in a job you hate so much,,,,,just go!
You sound neither motivated nor interested in remaining part of the group and I'm surprised you haven't made the company's decision to get rid of 1750 people a little easier
You guys are missing the point. If everyone who felt this way left, there would not be much of QF left. This is old management rhetoric. AJ knows this and is trying to turn things around. Unfortunately it is getting jumbled up through some departmental middle management.

When "you are recompensed accordingly", or "Qantas in general have been very good to me and have treated me well", and maybe even "QF has spent well north of a million bucks on my training in the last year alone", maybe you might feel different, maybe not.

Don't judge a guy until you have taken a good walk in his shoes. Take a good hard look around and maybe you might see why. (and I mean outside of the dept you work in too). I know I am definately not alone. Most of the angry ones are those who were most passionate about their jobs and the QF brand. Don't expect them to walk out too soon....
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Old 27th May 2009, 02:13
  #330 (permalink)  
 
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I give you an analogy

you all implied that if someone is so upset with management at Qantas, than that person should just leave, and let the management problem continue to ruin other people's life.

There is a hate Qantas website set up by customers who are sick and tired of Qantas lousy service.

Qantas Sucks World - Customer complaints

So with some of the attitude of the people here telling a staff who complained about management practices to leave, it is like telling customers who complained to go somewhere else and use other airlines: no difference, instead of solving the problem and addressing the issue, you tell the messenger to just go away.

I dare you to tell every passenger who complain about Qantas lousy service and there are many to go elsewhere, using the same attitude you just told me, well Qantas does not owe you anything, if you do not like it, just fly with someone else. Try telling them their ticket price does not buy them perfection, merely from point A to point B and you are not wrong when you say that, but this is the attitude I am sensing in these bunch of people who do not like voices of dissent.

This attitude will see you bring success to the role.

And Ngineer is correct, most of the people who complained about management are the ones with alot of creative new ideas, alot of passion but stifle becos of this management stumbling block, in cabin crew, the stumbling block to success are team managers.
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Old 27th May 2009, 03:50
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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as usual heads up..... a load of garbage....

so pax complain, and you seem to be interested... well maybe they complain about people like you and your attitude.
Dont give me this crap that you are interested in what pax complain about.
the reason why you are so anti QF is that you have been bought to task about your very poor performance, and you did not like that!

You are probably the crew that pax complain about.
You are probably the crew member that whine and whine to our pax about how hard you have been done by! well they aren't interested in your grievances.
they simply want to get on an aircraft, you smile at them give them their drink and choice of meal, hopefully their IFE will work, and they get off.

just bloody leave! honestly we have enough issues to deal with at the moment!
I dare you to try and find another job! I BET YOU WONT!
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Old 27th May 2009, 06:10
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ABP
Plenty of courses accessible online with Qantas College which you are able to do and they are free. The company offer these to benefit you in attaining further skills and hopefully it will benefit them by having crew who are self motivated and keen for promotion.

Nothing is stopping you from accessing these courses to better your resume.

I agree with OCCR and 34R, you are owed nothing, you show up and you get paid to do the job you signed on for. Anything else on top of that is a bonus if you choose to avail yourself of the opportunities.

When you consistantly have problems in the workplace heads_down you need to start looking at the one common denominator in all those situations......that would be you.
you are wrong, any course you wish to take must be approved by your team manager, it needs to be relevant to your work duties, not because you are knowledge thirsty.

And your team manager will only approve how to make scramble eggs courses and other cooking skills. Apart from that, marketing , management and technical courses are totally out of bounds for unskilled food servers.

and OCCR, it is a shame that you did not pick a profession like public prosecutor or a judge (obviously you do not have the qualifications for these highly skilled profession) all you do is make assumptions, and then judge and jury for every thing you say. What another crock of Qantas ****, only Qantas can produce people like that, no other companies produce incompetents like yourself.

While I understand the company owe you nothing the same works both ways you provide a service and they pay you so you do not owe Qantas anything either.
If everyone takes this attitude than it'll be curtains.
Most big companies offers and encourage a career path for all their staff be it serving food or repairing aircraft. They do this by making staff take courses that will actually earn them certification.
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Old 27th May 2009, 06:19
  #333 (permalink)  
 
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and in other news....

Has anyone heard any more about CC Restructure? Or any rumours? Just curious.....
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Old 27th May 2009, 06:27
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Very sadly the service desk girls have been let go as of 2.30pm yesterday.

Tragic when you consider that they were the only QCC1 workers who the vast majority of crew had any time for. The place will be a shambles without them.

Eight CCTM positions are being reduced to four with interviews for those who have been spilled and wanting to reapply being held on Monday.

Tarrantular, The ice queen, the bearded lady and the other sociopath CCMs are all safe for the moment.

Allegedly.
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Old 27th May 2009, 06:42
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I think that the swine flu is hitting long haul bookings very badly and that unfortunately there will be many more job losses before this is over. I include pilots in this and hope like hell im wrong.
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Old 27th May 2009, 07:04
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Heads D

Most big companies offers and encourage a career path for all their staff be it serving food or repairing aircraft. They do this by making staff take courses that will actually earn them certification.
Bulls!!! What fken planet are you from?

You're a disgruntled employee Either: grow some balls, talk to your manager and vent your concerns; piss off; or shut the f up. Nobody whats to hear your whinging.

Your part of the problem we need solutions atm.
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Old 27th May 2009, 08:29
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Company Distancing of CC Now Complete

As a CC member you once had several points of contact with your employer.Operations was once available.Not any more.Pre departure EP checks are gone.The open door policy of previous Cabin Crew managers has finished.Lorraine in the mail room gone.The admin staff in front of the service desk gone.
Well at least we had the girls from the Service Desk.Not any more.
The product centre is not a reliable or available source of information.Nor are the CC Team Managers.
My heart goes out to the unsung heroines of CC.The service Desk girls.
You will be greatly missed.
CC are now out on their own.Deprived of any reliable source of information.
Any point of pleasant contact with our employer has now gone.
Now we have no choice but to be disengaged
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Old 27th May 2009, 08:48
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I think majority of crew would agree the problem at CC are team managers and LG social club. And the few serial dobbers who are promised brownies by their respective team managers for their dobbing initiative.

Therein lies the problem.


Solution: sack all team managers, make dobbers accountable, not anonymous. Instill a real merit based promotion with people from outside CC making the decisions and not CC biased favoritism based promotion criteria.

And yes I agree the swine flu and the yet to come to an end financial crisis will hit the business very hard. Don't believe me? wait and see.

You hadn't seen the worse, yet.
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Old 27th May 2009, 08:51
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Sadly correct on all counts Blade Runner

There is one point of functional human contact left for cabin crew with the company that you forgot to mention.

Emergency proceedures training.

A shame that it comes around only twice a year.......
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Old 27th May 2009, 08:53
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i forgot to say the service desk girls are cool, I could not believe they were let go but I kinda thought with the electronic sign on, something wicked this way comes...

and I was told the EP trainers are s separate company and the trainers are actually not employed by Qantas but by another company, cos QF contracts EP training to an outside company. That was not really well publicised.
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