1,750 jobs to go at Qantas
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Posts: 1,116
Received 13 Likes
on
8 Posts
AJ and engineers
I look fwd to him making the moves to engage the lame after the last group set back relations years..
I'll give him every opportunity to do so.
Make no mistake I believe that some job losses will come with changes in procedures and we'll be busier than ever.
Getting rid of some of the layers of bureaucracy and matey's clubs will go some way to closer links between the top deck and the floor.
Respect is important and I want to go to work and enjoy it and want to work with people who are happy to be there and not moan all day.
I'll give him every opportunity to do so.
Make no mistake I believe that some job losses will come with changes in procedures and we'll be busier than ever.
Getting rid of some of the layers of bureaucracy and matey's clubs will go some way to closer links between the top deck and the floor.
Respect is important and I want to go to work and enjoy it and want to work with people who are happy to be there and not moan all day.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joyce really impressed me this morning. Yes, I think he did have a shot at Dixon adding too many layers - he is basically reversing that (and the sgementation) and that will help with communication as well. He was saying that some of the job losses will come from that processes, saving cost and therefore increasing the communication between the top and the bottom. As Joyce said, the increased layers means it takes too long for problems to be brought to the attention to the top.
He also mentioned the engineers and basically said that there wasn't enough communication with the engineers as to what they were doing and the reason they were doing it.
He also mentioned the engineers and basically said that there wasn't enough communication with the engineers as to what they were doing and the reason they were doing it.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those who are interested (ABC Inside Business);
CEO sees 'leaner, meaner' Qantas in tough times - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
CEO sees 'leaner, meaner' Qantas in tough times - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Retrenching crews?
Part of Alan Kohler's lead in with Alan Joyce was;
makes me ask if pilot retrenchment was discussed prior to filming and as this was not refuted by Alan Joyce if this is on the cards. Perhaps Joyce did not address the statement as it was not relevant but it's a real issue.
The Engineers seem to be more respected than the Pilot body and for good reason as they demonstrated their willingness to protect their conditions.
The "great" new EBA, which in normal times would be a good deal, is being now rushed through, no doubt it will get up, and will take away much of our ability to react in any meaningful legal industrial way when when retrenchments take place and yet Jetstar continues to employ.
You must ask "are we being played as suckers" with a trogen horse EBA?
It's one thing to park 10 aircraft and retrench the crews associated with that....
The Engineers seem to be more respected than the Pilot body and for good reason as they demonstrated their willingness to protect their conditions.
The "great" new EBA, which in normal times would be a good deal, is being now rushed through, no doubt it will get up, and will take away much of our ability to react in any meaningful legal industrial way when when retrenchments take place and yet Jetstar continues to employ.
You must ask "are we being played as suckers" with a trogen horse EBA?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joyce made Dixon look like a Fu%#wit. It seems Dixon really didn't know what the hell he was doing.
Joyce looks like a modern day CEO, making hard decisions, but my God I, almost get the feeling he gives a toss about the employees, which is miles apart from Dixon, who I do believe to be the anti-christ!!!
Joyce looks like a modern day CEO, making hard decisions, but my God I, almost get the feeling he gives a toss about the employees, which is miles apart from Dixon, who I do believe to be the anti-christ!!!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mostly at home
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QF have not said that they are going to park 10 aircraft - that was a mis-representation that was not refuted, though.
What they HAVE said is that they are going to reduce flying by the EQUIVALENT of 10 aircraft. Not the same thing at all.
N
What they HAVE said is that they are going to reduce flying by the EQUIVALENT of 10 aircraft. Not the same thing at all.
N
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On the chopping board.
Posts: 929
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
2 Posts
If Al Joyce wishes to engage his engineering staff then excellent, however he needs firstly to address these issues of harrassment and intimidation that are being employed by some lower level managers, and totally remove these from our workplace. A quick word with the ALAEA and from employees on the floor will easily identify such problems of both present and past.
I am very sure that most LAME's would strive for a better and more engaged workplace if we could only shake these rediculous bad habits of the past. They are very unproductive and damaging to our workplace.
I am very sure that most LAME's would strive for a better and more engaged workplace if we could only shake these rediculous bad habits of the past. They are very unproductive and damaging to our workplace.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wishful Thinking
How Beneficial to Our Brand in these dark economic days if we brought all our jobs back home!
AUSTRALIA
Re-nationalise Qantas!
Pat Donohoe
18 April 2009
In the aftermath of industrial action by Qantas workers at airports in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth on March 30 over plans out-source jobs, Qantas announced on April 14 that 1750 jobs would be cut.
Qantas also plans to ground 10 of its aircraft and will likely sell them.
The company has adjusted its forecasted before-tax profit for the full year from around $500 million to somewhere between $100 million to $200 million.
Qantas is blaming the economic downturn and deterioration in trading conditions. The company has called for workers and unions to react “sensibly” to the news.
CEO Alan Joyce told the ABC’s 7:30 Report he hoped “that all the unions and all of the employees realise that in this competitive environment, the last thing we want to see is industrial action that will only damage more jobs and will only damage Qantas into the future”.
Joyce added: “We believe that the action we’re taking is what’s needed to protect the 34,000 jobs in the company … We will be talking to the employees, to the unions about the imperative nature of what we have to do in order to protect the business and we think that people will listen to that. And I expect people to act sensibly and I think they will.”
Despite giving lip service to the protection of jobs, what Joyce is really talking about here is the protection of profits for Qantas and its shareholders and the huge remuneration of executives.
He expects workers to pay for the mistakes and irrationality of the companies they work for and the capitalist system.
The argument that workers and bosses are somehow “in the same boat” and share the same interests is trotted out whenever workers are called on to make sacrifices to keep companies’ profits up.
The Australian Council of Trade Unions has made lukewarm calls on Qantas to minimise the damage done. ACTU secretary Jeff Lawrence said in an April 14 statement: “We hope that the airline understands the importance of minimising job losses and is prepared to take all steps to ensure workers are redeployed and are offered retraining and a reduction in hours rather than compulsory redundancies.”
The real response unions should have to this announcement is to call for profits to take a hit rather than jobs or wages. The bosses have reaped the benefits in the good times and seen their share of the pie increase. They should be the ones that pay for the crisis their greed has caused — not the workers who created their profits.
We need to decisively reject the “reasoning” that capitalists suggest and engage in militant industrial action in defence of workers’ rights. Workers need, and deserve, more than a purely defensive campaign of minimising job losses.
In fact, in this time of economic downturn we need to put forward the argument that Qantas should be re-nationalised (and other companies laying off workers or facing bankruptcy should be nationalised, also). It could be run in the interests of those that work for it, society as a whole and the environment (nationalisation offers more social control over polluting industries such as airlines).
AUSTRALIA
Re-nationalise Qantas!
Pat Donohoe
18 April 2009
In the aftermath of industrial action by Qantas workers at airports in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth on March 30 over plans out-source jobs, Qantas announced on April 14 that 1750 jobs would be cut.
Qantas also plans to ground 10 of its aircraft and will likely sell them.
The company has adjusted its forecasted before-tax profit for the full year from around $500 million to somewhere between $100 million to $200 million.
Qantas is blaming the economic downturn and deterioration in trading conditions. The company has called for workers and unions to react “sensibly” to the news.
CEO Alan Joyce told the ABC’s 7:30 Report he hoped “that all the unions and all of the employees realise that in this competitive environment, the last thing we want to see is industrial action that will only damage more jobs and will only damage Qantas into the future”.
Joyce added: “We believe that the action we’re taking is what’s needed to protect the 34,000 jobs in the company … We will be talking to the employees, to the unions about the imperative nature of what we have to do in order to protect the business and we think that people will listen to that. And I expect people to act sensibly and I think they will.”
Despite giving lip service to the protection of jobs, what Joyce is really talking about here is the protection of profits for Qantas and its shareholders and the huge remuneration of executives.
He expects workers to pay for the mistakes and irrationality of the companies they work for and the capitalist system.
The argument that workers and bosses are somehow “in the same boat” and share the same interests is trotted out whenever workers are called on to make sacrifices to keep companies’ profits up.
The Australian Council of Trade Unions has made lukewarm calls on Qantas to minimise the damage done. ACTU secretary Jeff Lawrence said in an April 14 statement: “We hope that the airline understands the importance of minimising job losses and is prepared to take all steps to ensure workers are redeployed and are offered retraining and a reduction in hours rather than compulsory redundancies.”
The real response unions should have to this announcement is to call for profits to take a hit rather than jobs or wages. The bosses have reaped the benefits in the good times and seen their share of the pie increase. They should be the ones that pay for the crisis their greed has caused — not the workers who created their profits.
We need to decisively reject the “reasoning” that capitalists suggest and engage in militant industrial action in defence of workers’ rights. Workers need, and deserve, more than a purely defensive campaign of minimising job losses.
In fact, in this time of economic downturn we need to put forward the argument that Qantas should be re-nationalised (and other companies laying off workers or facing bankruptcy should be nationalised, also). It could be run in the interests of those that work for it, society as a whole and the environment (nationalisation offers more social control over polluting industries such as airlines).
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have a look on the QF intranet - there is a mangement tree showing 27 (yes 27!) HR managers in engineering alone - surely they would have to be a target - what exactly do they do anyway?
Last edited by woollcott; 19th Apr 2009 at 08:11.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney
Age: 58
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote-
"what exactly do they [managers] do anyway?"
__________________
They serve the same function as probably 90% of those with the title "manager" in Qantas.
They don't actually do anything other than have meetings to decide what someone else [non manager] is going to do.
Nothing more and nothing less.
"what exactly do they [managers] do anyway?"
__________________
They serve the same function as probably 90% of those with the title "manager" in Qantas.
They don't actually do anything other than have meetings to decide what someone else [non manager] is going to do.
Nothing more and nothing less.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Past the rabbit proof fence
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Q) What does a manager do if there is no money for capital investment or desperately needed infrastructure?
A) Sign/reject leave applications I guess. Surely you dont need so many managers when there are no policy decisions being made.
A) Sign/reject leave applications I guess. Surely you dont need so many managers when there are no policy decisions being made.
HMMMM;
Obie, I think the point is we were all sitting around having a nice cup of tea when GD & AJ stole our cheese with J* last time.
It makes me think of old Russian proverb.
Obie, I think the point is we were all sitting around having a nice cup of tea when GD & AJ stole our cheese with J* last time.
It makes me think of old Russian proverb.
"Dwell on the past, and you'll loose an eye; forget the past, and you'll lose both eyes."
Join Date: May 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Obie
Obviously you and Richard Kranium are in the same boat and don't work shiftwork and have no real appreciation of it.
I agree with his sentiment of slowing down and kicking back for a day, unfortunately for those who actually bring in money for their employers in the Aviation industry Sunday( or any weekend) is probably not a day of rest and reflection.
We don't get POETS day (Piss Off Early Tomorrows Saturday) and Sunday is maybe an early start so no playing up on Saturday night. If you don't do shiftwork you've got no idea how it impacts on your family life.
There are pluses and minuses with shiftwork but if you haven't worked it you've got no idea.
Enjoy your weekend.
Obviously you and Richard Kranium are in the same boat and don't work shiftwork and have no real appreciation of it.
I agree with his sentiment of slowing down and kicking back for a day, unfortunately for those who actually bring in money for their employers in the Aviation industry Sunday( or any weekend) is probably not a day of rest and reflection.
We don't get POETS day (Piss Off Early Tomorrows Saturday) and Sunday is maybe an early start so no playing up on Saturday night. If you don't do shiftwork you've got no idea how it impacts on your family life.
There are pluses and minuses with shiftwork but if you haven't worked it you've got no idea.
Enjoy your weekend.
Woolcott:
I thought it was obvious: Each HR Manager makes work for the other 26 managers.
Guess how many HR Managers there were in Ansett Engineering back in the 1970's?
Zero.
Your "real" Manager, who was always a respected bloke who had Thirty+ years of experience on the floor was your HR Manager.
He organised your training, signed your leave requests (subsequently handled by a couple of ladies who also organised pay), provided counselling (marriage guidance, financial, child rearing, etc.) and the occasional bollocking. They did it quickly, effectively, cheaply, and automatically because they knew bull**** when they heard it. I remember one chap who had is career put on hold until he broke up an affair with one of the office girls and went back to his missus.
I've never used an HR manager in one of my businesses, the most I've ever done is employ an HR consultant to train and advise line managers in their HR responsibilities. My motto is "Their your ****ing staff, you are your own HR manager!"
Have a look on the QF intranet - there is a management tree showing 27 (yes 27!) HR managers in engineering alone - surely they would have to be a target - what exactly do they do anyway?
Guess how many HR Managers there were in Ansett Engineering back in the 1970's?
Zero.
Your "real" Manager, who was always a respected bloke who had Thirty+ years of experience on the floor was your HR Manager.
He organised your training, signed your leave requests (subsequently handled by a couple of ladies who also organised pay), provided counselling (marriage guidance, financial, child rearing, etc.) and the occasional bollocking. They did it quickly, effectively, cheaply, and automatically because they knew bull**** when they heard it. I remember one chap who had is career put on hold until he broke up an affair with one of the office girls and went back to his missus.
I've never used an HR manager in one of my businesses, the most I've ever done is employ an HR consultant to train and advise line managers in their HR responsibilities. My motto is "Their your ****ing staff, you are your own HR manager!"
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"We continue to invest $1.5 billion a year in engineering. We spent probably more than any of our peers on engineering so it's something that's very big for us, very important for us."
Mr Joyce says issues with late flights have been resolved since an industrial dispute with engineers ended last year.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dead right Sunfish, HR is a pox on the system and wouldn't know sh1t from clay, fancy having a snotty nosed uni graduate sitting in judgement of wether to hire a pilot or engineer with years of experience and who have worked for other airlines, most HR people are absolute naive dills.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have to agree...........Been to interviews run by HR - no idea about engineering whatsoever - just stupid irrelevant questions read from a text book
30+ years of experience dont count if you cant engage a stakeholder or name their mission statement................
30+ years of experience dont count if you cant engage a stakeholder or name their mission statement................