Qantas baggage handlers strike
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higherplane...
Some of the posts here never cease to amaze me...
Firstly,I think you can simplify any job description and put a case for any rate of pay ....any business will do that but the question that should be asked is......are you earning $16 per hour in your job,higherplane?
Secondly,If the pay is low enough so that you work two jobs to pay the bills then when another job becomes available would you stick around for $16 per hour?
In other words of course $16 per hour will cause a significant staff turn over...no matter how much fun you have at work and how many
and so on the company gives you...
The end result is that you have to live on your pay....would you fly an aircraft for $16 per hour even if every Friday was a free sausage sizzle...
I don't see what's wrong with $16 per hour
I think you will find staff turnover genearlly has little to do with pay
Firstly,I think you can simplify any job description and put a case for any rate of pay ....any business will do that but the question that should be asked is......are you earning $16 per hour in your job,higherplane?
Secondly,If the pay is low enough so that you work two jobs to pay the bills then when another job becomes available would you stick around for $16 per hour?
In other words of course $16 per hour will cause a significant staff turn over...no matter how much fun you have at work and how many
Friday sausage sizzles
The end result is that you have to live on your pay....would you fly an aircraft for $16 per hour even if every Friday was a free sausage sizzle...
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Why don't we see what an industry expert 
has to say about it all.
has to say about it all.
14 . Qantas row: rude mechanics vs goons
Ben Sandilands writes:
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the baggage handler stop work affecting
Qantas at major airports on Monday, a union not involved in the dispute has
blown the whistle on dangerous practices by the management staff that
entered the tarmac in efforts to keep the airline running.
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association, AKA the "rude
mechanics" in some quarters, saw Qantas executives, AKA the "goons", using
mobile phones near jets being refuelled, and driving ground equipment they
weren't licensed or trained to operate.
The baggage handlers belong to the TWU and are opposed to plans to outsource
their jobs as well as raising allegations, which Qantas has denial in full,
that airport security will be compromised by their being replaced.
The licensed mechanic or LAME who leaked his union's memo to Crikey said: "I
was told to p-ss off when I tried to tell several of them they risked
setting fire to a pressurised refuelling process while yabbering into their
mobiles under a wing.
"They could have burned down the jet, and a fair bit of the terminal. The
contempt and ignorance of these (people) is alarming.
"And watching some of them try to drive the baggage carts and work out how
to make the loading ramp work was bad, you can hit planes hard enough with
those things to dent the panels and even rip holes in them."
The notice from the licensed engineers association says, "ALAEA members
challenged the strike-breakers and encountered stiff resistance and abuse
from the managers who appeared to think that the rules of the tarmac did not
apply to them.
"These managers are working in an unfamiliar environment and breaking rules
that are there to keep your workplace safe."
Similar complaints were made about management errors in handling jets during
last year's overtime bans by LAMEs, in a dispute that their union eventually
won in a long drawn out confrontation with former Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon,
but which cost the carrier loss of service reliability and reputation.
A Qantas spokesperson denied the claims and said the staff were fully
trained and experienced in the procedures and safety rules.
He said that considering the difficulties posed by the sudden walk out the
airline believed the contingency plans had been a success.
However, some affected passengers have complained in the media that they
have been told they may not get their checked luggage until the end of this
week.
Ben Sandilands writes:
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the baggage handler stop work affecting
Qantas at major airports on Monday, a union not involved in the dispute has
blown the whistle on dangerous practices by the management staff that
entered the tarmac in efforts to keep the airline running.
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association, AKA the "rude
mechanics" in some quarters, saw Qantas executives, AKA the "goons", using
mobile phones near jets being refuelled, and driving ground equipment they
weren't licensed or trained to operate.
The baggage handlers belong to the TWU and are opposed to plans to outsource
their jobs as well as raising allegations, which Qantas has denial in full,
that airport security will be compromised by their being replaced.
The licensed mechanic or LAME who leaked his union's memo to Crikey said: "I
was told to p-ss off when I tried to tell several of them they risked
setting fire to a pressurised refuelling process while yabbering into their
mobiles under a wing.
"They could have burned down the jet, and a fair bit of the terminal. The
contempt and ignorance of these (people) is alarming.
"And watching some of them try to drive the baggage carts and work out how
to make the loading ramp work was bad, you can hit planes hard enough with
those things to dent the panels and even rip holes in them."
The notice from the licensed engineers association says, "ALAEA members
challenged the strike-breakers and encountered stiff resistance and abuse
from the managers who appeared to think that the rules of the tarmac did not
apply to them.
"These managers are working in an unfamiliar environment and breaking rules
that are there to keep your workplace safe."
Similar complaints were made about management errors in handling jets during
last year's overtime bans by LAMEs, in a dispute that their union eventually
won in a long drawn out confrontation with former Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon,
but which cost the carrier loss of service reliability and reputation.
A Qantas spokesperson denied the claims and said the staff were fully
trained and experienced in the procedures and safety rules.
He said that considering the difficulties posed by the sudden walk out the
airline believed the contingency plans had been a success.
However, some affected passengers have complained in the media that they
have been told they may not get their checked luggage until the end of this
week.
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would you fly an aircraft for $16 per hour even if every Friday was a free sausage sizzle...
So, divide that by 52 weeks a year and 40 hours a week and you have $16.64 and hour. So Lowerlobe, your answer is yes I have, many others have and still are flying planes for $16 an hour, and in all the cases I've ever heard of there were never and Friday sausage sizzles or the like unless we organised and paid for it. These people often have the lives of 5 others in their hands, have gone through lengthy and expensive training. I'm surprised you wouldn't know this as I'm guessing you're a pilot with a name like lowerlobe, unless of course you are a cadet with a trust fund.
The guys and girls flying around those light aircraft have far more responsibility than anybody throwing bags. Now I will admit that $16 and hour is pretty poor, so maybe it should be slightly more being that that is only $1.70 an hour over the min wage. However I have heard and I will stress anecdotal stories of rampys earning up to $70k a year. I'd like to hear from others if this is bul***it I have been fed and what the Qantas Rampys earn. I can see why Qantas would want to shed some deadwood and outsource to companies that don't pay unskilled workers professional wages.
Some of the posts here never cease to amaze me...
Firstly,I think you can simplify any job description and put a case for any rate of pay ....any business will do that but the question that should be asked is......are you earning $16 per hour in your job,higherplane?
Firstly,I think you can simplify any job description and put a case for any rate of pay ....any business will do that but the question that should be asked is......are you earning $16 per hour in your job,higherplane?
I also stand by my comments about staff turn over. I will admit some will leave for a higher wage, but it will only be some. Most people will stay if they are happy in their work place.
On a side note something that really pissed me off about this strike was seeing Qantas jets lined up waiting for bays chewing through probably tens of thousands of litres of fuel. That is so environmental irresponsible it sickens me.
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Hey HP,
I'm taking a wild guess here, but what with you thinking $16 an hour for a pilot is ok but could be better, $70k is a "professional wage", and you worried about global warming/environment worries about a jet sitting on the ground, you must be all of umm...17, maybe 18 years old?
I'm taking a wild guess here, but what with you thinking $16 an hour for a pilot is ok but could be better, $70k is a "professional wage", and you worried about global warming/environment worries about a jet sitting on the ground, you must be all of umm...17, maybe 18 years old?
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How much does it cost to hire a litey to clock hours up these days I thinks $150 per hour?
So when you is working outback earning $16 an hour until you get a big boy license to earn $250,000 a year at Qantas they throw in that hours for the log book dont they.
So you realy get 16 plus 150 $166 dollars an hour. Thats pretty good.
So when you is working outback earning $16 an hour until you get a big boy license to earn $250,000 a year at Qantas they throw in that hours for the log book dont they.
So you realy get 16 plus 150 $166 dollars an hour. Thats pretty good.
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If the Ramp guys earn $70000 or so, it is because of a large amount of overtime being worked by them. Why is there so much overtime available? Well the answer to that is that the operation is cut so much, that there is not enough staff to cover the normal shifts let alone any extra needed. So if they do earn $70000 good luck to them, because it is from bad planning and management over the years that has had this come about.
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Most people will stay if they are happy in their work place.
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Higherplane, I think it is unfair to refer to ramp handling as an unskilled job.
It is a physical job and a long way from rocket science, but driving hi-lift units, pushback tugs and positioning dollies around aircraft (where even a minor nudge costs zillions to repair) all takes skill and practice.
As for responsibility, runaway tugs across aprons or incorrect pushbacks can cause huge damage and fatalities. Likewise colliding with a refueller, which is deceptively easy around smaller jets.
Most people here agree with you that the pay for low hour CPLs is far too low, but you won't increase that by running other people down.
It is a physical job and a long way from rocket science, but driving hi-lift units, pushback tugs and positioning dollies around aircraft (where even a minor nudge costs zillions to repair) all takes skill and practice.
As for responsibility, runaway tugs across aprons or incorrect pushbacks can cause huge damage and fatalities. Likewise colliding with a refueller, which is deceptively easy around smaller jets.
Most people here agree with you that the pay for low hour CPLs is far too low, but you won't increase that by running other people down.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 3rd Apr 2009 at 07:56.
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From the aviation section of business spectator.com
FLYING HIGH
by Robert Stockdill
RSS feed
Posted 31 Mar 2009 11:12 AM
The enemy within Qantas
Monday’s wildcat strike by Qantas staff has appropriately identified the Transport Workers Union (TWU) as the carrier’s enemy within. It was probably the most ill-considered and fundamentally stupid act of any Australian trade union in nearly a decade.
Anyone who can read a newspaper or log onto the internet knows full well we’ve been sucked into a recession not of our own making. While it might not be quite as bad as mainstream media headline writers would have us believe, it remains a recession.
Companies are cutting costs to protect themselves from falling revenues. Workers are being made redundant as order books shrink. And one of the worst-affected industries at present is the aviation sector. Falling fuel prices may be helping overheads return to reasonable levels, but any benefit in falling costs is being outpaced by falling revenues, as companies fund fewer business trips and private travellers tighten their belts, either staying at home or opting to travel with budget airlines rather than full service carriers.
Members of the TWU would be well advised to ask whether federal secretary Tony Sheldon can read, or is keeping abreast of the economic climate, judging by his decision to sanction a snap strike on Monday.
Pulling workers off the job on Monday morning disrupted the travel plans of thousands of Australians and cost their employer a small fortune it can ill afford at this time.
There was absolutely no reasonable or legal purpose for this strike. In a rant to the media, Sheldon told the news media and Qantas management the strike was called due to security issues raised by inappropriate security accreditation of non-union staff members. In the next breath, it was something to do with contracting external workers to carry out unionised jobs. Then he tried to establish a link between security screening and the murder of a bikie gang member at Sydney Airport, in a public place anyone can walk without screening.
It was all utter nonsense and the mainstream media for once covered it well, transcribing Sheldon’s nonsense verbatim. Security screening is not part of Qantas' role – that’s the responsibility of higher government authorities. And as a Qantas spokesman subtly put it, the claim people were working in high security zones without being screened was “rubbish”.
Last year, the TWU concocted a campaign to restrict the weight of single items of checked baggage, because it claimed its members were sustaining injuries lifting the bags. Qantas management was then far too polite to state the bleeding obvious: if you can’t lift a bag weighing 32kg – the limit applied throughout the planet – then perhaps a career in baggage handling isn’t the right vocation.
A cynic might have suggested such people could apply for jobs at the union instead, so they could come up with even more absurd reasons to call their members out on strike.
That these characters are damaging their long-term job prospects will bother few members of the travelling public. They have other concerns – we’ve all read in the newspapers about organised baggage theft rings operating at Sydney Airport. Some of us – myself included – have had items stolen from their bags and consider the risk of it happening again an occupational hazard of flying through Sydney.
The greater concern here is the impact these time-warp-trapped unionists will have on their employer. Boldly striving to overcome falling revenues, image problems, fuel hedging miscalculations, management restructuring and a recession, Qantas now has to go into battle with a new foe – the enemy within.
There was no valid reason whatsoever for Monday’s strike and the prospect of customers blaming Qantas for the unreasonable travel delays is real and unwarranted.
For all its faults of 2008, Qantas has been navigating its way through the industry turmoil relatively well in the last three months. The last thing it needed was an unwarranted attack from within by a bunch of people willing to risk their jobs to pursue their own agenda, which they failed to coherently explain to anyone on Monday.
In the end they may have accelerated their journey into oblivion. Having positioned themselves as a dedicated enemy of their employer, why wouldn’t Qantas ditch the lot of them in favour of outside contractors?
FLYING HIGH
by Robert Stockdill
RSS feed
Posted 31 Mar 2009 11:12 AM
The enemy within Qantas
Monday’s wildcat strike by Qantas staff has appropriately identified the Transport Workers Union (TWU) as the carrier’s enemy within. It was probably the most ill-considered and fundamentally stupid act of any Australian trade union in nearly a decade.
Anyone who can read a newspaper or log onto the internet knows full well we’ve been sucked into a recession not of our own making. While it might not be quite as bad as mainstream media headline writers would have us believe, it remains a recession.
Companies are cutting costs to protect themselves from falling revenues. Workers are being made redundant as order books shrink. And one of the worst-affected industries at present is the aviation sector. Falling fuel prices may be helping overheads return to reasonable levels, but any benefit in falling costs is being outpaced by falling revenues, as companies fund fewer business trips and private travellers tighten their belts, either staying at home or opting to travel with budget airlines rather than full service carriers.
Members of the TWU would be well advised to ask whether federal secretary Tony Sheldon can read, or is keeping abreast of the economic climate, judging by his decision to sanction a snap strike on Monday.
Pulling workers off the job on Monday morning disrupted the travel plans of thousands of Australians and cost their employer a small fortune it can ill afford at this time.
There was absolutely no reasonable or legal purpose for this strike. In a rant to the media, Sheldon told the news media and Qantas management the strike was called due to security issues raised by inappropriate security accreditation of non-union staff members. In the next breath, it was something to do with contracting external workers to carry out unionised jobs. Then he tried to establish a link between security screening and the murder of a bikie gang member at Sydney Airport, in a public place anyone can walk without screening.
It was all utter nonsense and the mainstream media for once covered it well, transcribing Sheldon’s nonsense verbatim. Security screening is not part of Qantas' role – that’s the responsibility of higher government authorities. And as a Qantas spokesman subtly put it, the claim people were working in high security zones without being screened was “rubbish”.
Last year, the TWU concocted a campaign to restrict the weight of single items of checked baggage, because it claimed its members were sustaining injuries lifting the bags. Qantas management was then far too polite to state the bleeding obvious: if you can’t lift a bag weighing 32kg – the limit applied throughout the planet – then perhaps a career in baggage handling isn’t the right vocation.
A cynic might have suggested such people could apply for jobs at the union instead, so they could come up with even more absurd reasons to call their members out on strike.
That these characters are damaging their long-term job prospects will bother few members of the travelling public. They have other concerns – we’ve all read in the newspapers about organised baggage theft rings operating at Sydney Airport. Some of us – myself included – have had items stolen from their bags and consider the risk of it happening again an occupational hazard of flying through Sydney.
The greater concern here is the impact these time-warp-trapped unionists will have on their employer. Boldly striving to overcome falling revenues, image problems, fuel hedging miscalculations, management restructuring and a recession, Qantas now has to go into battle with a new foe – the enemy within.
There was no valid reason whatsoever for Monday’s strike and the prospect of customers blaming Qantas for the unreasonable travel delays is real and unwarranted.
For all its faults of 2008, Qantas has been navigating its way through the industry turmoil relatively well in the last three months. The last thing it needed was an unwarranted attack from within by a bunch of people willing to risk their jobs to pursue their own agenda, which they failed to coherently explain to anyone on Monday.
In the end they may have accelerated their journey into oblivion. Having positioned themselves as a dedicated enemy of their employer, why wouldn’t Qantas ditch the lot of them in favour of outside contractors?
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As much as I agree that the TWU is concerned for the jobs of their members as more airlines (Phillippines) walk away from QF ground handling, the way these clowns held their stopwork meeting was a discrace.
By having all members hanging around the front of the terminal as passengers streamed out without their bags and then blocking the traffic on the roadway until the police came along will not win any support from the travelling public to their cause.
QF are bleeding customers from their Ground handling and Engineering operations. How long before NZ or MH walk due to the main issue that QF cannot gaurantee that union action will disrupt their services.
If the union wants to bring QF to its needs, then pick on QF flights only and give the service that they are paid to do by their customers.
As soon as the customers walk so do the TWU jobs.
By having all members hanging around the front of the terminal as passengers streamed out without their bags and then blocking the traffic on the roadway until the police came along will not win any support from the travelling public to their cause.
QF are bleeding customers from their Ground handling and Engineering operations. How long before NZ or MH walk due to the main issue that QF cannot gaurantee that union action will disrupt their services.
If the union wants to bring QF to its needs, then pick on QF flights only and give the service that they are paid to do by their customers.
As soon as the customers walk so do the TWU jobs.
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Why is the economic crisis spoken about as if it was a phenomenon like El Nino or the Boxing Day Tsunami? There is a reason the Worlds economy is in the poo, and it has nothing to do with an 'Act of God'.
We are being conditioned to believe that greed and incompetence were but bit players and that, like the weather, there was nothing that could have reasonably have been done to foresee this. If companies are paying outrageous salary packages to get the 'best', then surely the 'best' should have seen this coming and planned accordingly.
We are being conditioned to believe that greed and incompetence were but bit players and that, like the weather, there was nothing that could have reasonably have been done to foresee this. If companies are paying outrageous salary packages to get the 'best', then surely the 'best' should have seen this coming and planned accordingly.
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Actually, it is very common that this lot don't obtain ASICs for staff prior to commencement and just use Visitor Passes. In fact, they were in front of a Senate Commission for this. Read the full report, and some of the damning outcomes: www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/J9064.pdf
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adl1745 link doesnt work, but it is true what you say when I was first hired I had a visitors pass airside for about three weeks whilst I was waiting for my ASIC I had to be escorted by an ASIC holder whilst airside.
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Mmmm , does any one believe the corrupt activities of some memebers of the TWU and all the problems they have caused a at SIT, what? and that nonsense post from the ALAEA FED SEC who his he kidding . A disgrace to real trade unionists . people with principles , who will not tolerate this corrupt nonsense
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BSC , God forbid anyone tell you the truth , live on in a world where everyone agrees with you . Ok oto ignore an opposite point of view is it ?I came through the movement when people had views and principles and where prepared to debate and listen , not so today. That is why we have today a Labor Gov'T that stands for nothing and who in the main is supported by a TU movement , much but not all the same . There are stlll a few good Comrades around , not many they are sidlined because they do not seek to be in the media , rorting super boards , of on o/s trips at the expense of the taxpayer . So go figure who are the real folk .