Australian ATC to strike
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Just wanted to wish you all the best from a uk based controller, we too had a vote, about pension caps, amongst other things and unfortunately, our union appear to have had a sex change operation and lost whatever balls they had, so they pushed for a yes vote, citing job loss fears (which are going ahead anyway, under the voluntary redundancy heading) and got what they wanted a 60/40 split with only a 70% turnout!!. i'm glad that your members and union seem to be singing the same same song, and you have left management with no doubt as to your resolve. I wish you all the best
Sprucegoose
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Not to mention how many weeks pollies work based on parliamentary sitting days...
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To anyone in the audience who may consider that a rise in salary for Australian Air Traffic Controllers is not warranted, spare a thought for what the going rate in the market for Air Traffic Controllers is...
At yesterday's exchange rate, my annual salary was the equivalent of an Australian salary of AUD$273,874 and 32c (using the Australian Taxation Office Homepage Comprehensive tax calculator).
Oh... and I'm on the lowest salary for Air Traffic Control in the region. Add a little over 50% to that figure for my brethren across the border.
At yesterday's exchange rate, my annual salary was the equivalent of an Australian salary of AUD$273,874 and 32c (using the Australian Taxation Office Homepage Comprehensive tax calculator).
Oh... and I'm on the lowest salary for Air Traffic Control in the region. Add a little over 50% to that figure for my brethren across the border.
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Yes, & to give the european influence to this , mine is in the vicinity of
$AUD 407,000 (Gross)
This is why Australian ATC's are leaving in droves & have been for years.
$AUD 407,000 (Gross)
This is why Australian ATC's are leaving in droves & have been for years.
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In Bahrain it's currently $422,400 AUD (grossed up to provide equivalent before tax amount) or thereabouts.
Funny thing is, for a lot of guys, it's not only about the money. However, when your Australian employer treats you with utter contempt, and units overseas are waving around these sorts of dollars, it's not hard to see why so many leave.
And I do mean utter contempt. It's not a new story.
Funny thing is, for a lot of guys, it's not only about the money. However, when your Australian employer treats you with utter contempt, and units overseas are waving around these sorts of dollars, it's not hard to see why so many leave.
And I do mean utter contempt. It's not a new story.
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Boree 3,
Hey buddy, thanks for the vote of confidence
Nah added a couple more moves than the "For sequencing turn right heading 240" & " fill your boots"
BTW that figure includes Health insurance.
It doesnt include the $AUD 20,000 per child for education or the travel money of around $AUD 16,000 per year.
Hey buddy, thanks for the vote of confidence
Nah added a couple more moves than the "For sequencing turn right heading 240" & " fill your boots"
BTW that figure includes Health insurance.
It doesnt include the $AUD 20,000 per child for education or the travel money of around $AUD 16,000 per year.
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Makes ya think; I'm only netting AUD$210K + accommodation + school fees + health insurance + flights + 8 weeks leave and a liveable rotation.
Good luck fellas, its not just the money you don't want to get sold out for a few shekels and leave you can't use.
I'd come home for less than half of what I am getting now if you had a decent roster and access to usable leave.... Not much chance of that
Good luck fellas, its not just the money you don't want to get sold out for a few shekels and leave you can't use.
I'd come home for less than half of what I am getting now if you had a decent roster and access to usable leave.... Not much chance of that
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You Guys, 
Even without VR, quoting those numbers will evoke a stampede!
The goodwill is destroyed, the environment poisoned.
All for what if we were going to get to this point all along, they should have cut the crap and dealt seriously from the beginning we must have had at least 60-70 people abandon ship in the last 12 months.
Who can blame them, the EBA is but one issue, once resolved many more exist not least the CEO and the fluffers (hacks) that masquerade as managers arseholes!
People will still leave!
TFN you had your chance and you blew it, or was that GSH that blew you!
Even without VR, quoting those numbers will evoke a stampede!
The goodwill is destroyed, the environment poisoned.
All for what if we were going to get to this point all along, they should have cut the crap and dealt seriously from the beginning we must have had at least 60-70 people abandon ship in the last 12 months.
Who can blame them, the EBA is but one issue, once resolved many more exist not least the CEO and the fluffers (hacks) that masquerade as managers arseholes!
People will still leave!
TFN you had your chance and you blew it, or was that GSH that blew you!
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I have finally succumbed and instead of just reading these posts now feel that i need to reply.
As an ex oz ATC who has moved onto new pastures (which at times were difficult, adjusting and coming to terms with a new enviroment, rules and regulations) and with a desire to return at some point I do want to say :
Before you stampede the grass is not always greener, while some such as the Euronator quote big dollars take a look at the big picture - the cost of living and what are the costs to yourself and your family when you relocate. In Europe, petrol, schooling and everyday costs are twice as much if not more, its all relative and while yes the salaries overseas are more than what you recieve in Oz its not 3 times.
Yes it is a raw deal for the ATC's in Oz at the moment and its not an enviroment that i would want to return too. I give them my full support and hope that the current negotiations result in what is deserved for the job that we do. All power to the union and members for showing strength and unity. Goodluck with the negotiations.
As an ex oz ATC who has moved onto new pastures (which at times were difficult, adjusting and coming to terms with a new enviroment, rules and regulations) and with a desire to return at some point I do want to say :
Before you stampede the grass is not always greener, while some such as the Euronator quote big dollars take a look at the big picture - the cost of living and what are the costs to yourself and your family when you relocate. In Europe, petrol, schooling and everyday costs are twice as much if not more, its all relative and while yes the salaries overseas are more than what you recieve in Oz its not 3 times.
Yes it is a raw deal for the ATC's in Oz at the moment and its not an enviroment that i would want to return too. I give them my full support and hope that the current negotiations result in what is deserved for the job that we do. All power to the union and members for showing strength and unity. Goodluck with the negotiations.
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keepemseperated
Maastricht , The Netherlands & I work for Eurocontrol.
expatoz
Totally agree, there are several issues & the main one is language. It is a huge impairment on your day to day operations & should never be underestimated. With time this will become less of an issue.
On the other side the working conditions eg Leave & days off are a huge incentive for Aussie ATC's to consider. I have never had any trouble obtaining leave & I am never pestered to do O/T , although it is available if I want.
Agree to a point. Australia's housing prices on a Wage to Value ratio is up there, if not more than parts of Europe. Considering this is one of your biggest outlays this must be taken into consideration,additionally interest rates are around 4 - 5 % compared with 7.5 - 8% in Aus. On other day to day expenses eg. Car/Petrol/Groceries , yes Europe is more expensive , almost double.
Be advised that other ANSP's in Europe eg DFS Germany(5,500 Euro per month after tax ) & Ireland do pay less & have less conditions than what I have quoted. Although with the state of the Irish economy they could be living in mansions shortly
One other thing, the Euro is currently very strong compared to the $AUD & historically it has been around $AUD 1 = 63 Euro cents not 50 Euro cents as it is currently. So that gross figure normally sits around the mid $300k range.
Maastricht , The Netherlands & I work for Eurocontrol.
expatoz
Before you stampede the grass is not always greener which at times were difficult, adjusting and coming to terms with a new enviroment, rules and regulations
On the other side the working conditions eg Leave & days off are a huge incentive for Aussie ATC's to consider. I have never had any trouble obtaining leave & I am never pestered to do O/T , although it is available if I want.
take a look at the big picture - the cost of living and what are the costs to yourself and your family when you relocate. In Europe, petrol, schooling and everyday costs are twice as much if not more, its all relative and while yes the salaries overseas are more than what you recieve in Oz its not 3 times.
Be advised that other ANSP's in Europe eg DFS Germany(5,500 Euro per month after tax ) & Ireland do pay less & have less conditions than what I have quoted. Although with the state of the Irish economy they could be living in mansions shortly
One other thing, the Euro is currently very strong compared to the $AUD & historically it has been around $AUD 1 = 63 Euro cents not 50 Euro cents as it is currently. So that gross figure normally sits around the mid $300k range.
Last edited by The Euronator; 18th Feb 2009 at 06:26.
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I agree Plazbot, stay where you are, after all, you did drive down Burke Street Mall when on course in Melb, imagine how you'd go driving overseas!!
not to mention the Englishman, the Irishman and the Scot actually injecting some life into the party, life can be pretty good with foreigners around
not to mention the Englishman, the Irishman and the Scot actually injecting some life into the party, life can be pretty good with foreigners around
Very cryptic
The Irishman went to the Sand Pit (but came back ) and the Scotsman went to NZ (and stayed). The filthy Pom is still with us though.
The Irishman went to the Sand Pit (but came back ) and the Scotsman went to NZ (and stayed). The filthy Pom is still with us though.
Last edited by Plazbot; 18th Feb 2009 at 09:20.
Ohcirrej
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amberale, you ever been in a Turkish prison?
My comment here will span between this thread, the other mega-merged one, and probably any other thread about ANSPs.
From my experience, ANSPs that have been privatised, partially privatised or are being run like a business are all very apt at operating in a vacuum and making the same mistakes. Nav Can, NATS, ASA (feel free to add) have all comparably sh*t the bed with their cost and corner cutting with training and are paying the price, wage negotiations for the pointy end while the blunties behind the desks shuffling paper always get a nice little bonus/percentage out of it. When a bad idea comes along regarding the operation, the subject matter experts are ignored ("Bah, what do them controllers know?), and only a manager with very strong convictions/intestinal fortitude/morals will speak the truth (and probably be shown the door)
I'm sure we're all hearing these ones as well:
* "Oh, contract negotiation time is here, and given the global economy, we're going to have to tighten our belts, blah, blah, blah". What about when times were great?
* "We need to offer competitive remuneration to ensure we maintain the best managers". Uh, just who exactly need to be retained at the moment to wear the headsets?
* "We have to operate with fiscal responsibility to our customers". A controller by the very nature of what he/she does is the custodian of that one. Why run 3 miles on final when 4 or 5 will do eh? Because we are professionals, and take great pride in exercising our licences as efficiently and SAFELY as possible.
* "We want to be the world leader ANSP blah, blah, blah." Well, they say mistakes are the only things you can truly call your own.
My comment here will span between this thread, the other mega-merged one, and probably any other thread about ANSPs.
From my experience, ANSPs that have been privatised, partially privatised or are being run like a business are all very apt at operating in a vacuum and making the same mistakes. Nav Can, NATS, ASA (feel free to add) have all comparably sh*t the bed with their cost and corner cutting with training and are paying the price, wage negotiations for the pointy end while the blunties behind the desks shuffling paper always get a nice little bonus/percentage out of it. When a bad idea comes along regarding the operation, the subject matter experts are ignored ("Bah, what do them controllers know?), and only a manager with very strong convictions/intestinal fortitude/morals will speak the truth (and probably be shown the door)
I'm sure we're all hearing these ones as well:
* "Oh, contract negotiation time is here, and given the global economy, we're going to have to tighten our belts, blah, blah, blah". What about when times were great?
* "We need to offer competitive remuneration to ensure we maintain the best managers". Uh, just who exactly need to be retained at the moment to wear the headsets?
* "We have to operate with fiscal responsibility to our customers". A controller by the very nature of what he/she does is the custodian of that one. Why run 3 miles on final when 4 or 5 will do eh? Because we are professionals, and take great pride in exercising our licences as efficiently and SAFELY as possible.
* "We want to be the world leader ANSP blah, blah, blah." Well, they say mistakes are the only things you can truly call your own.
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Plaz,
i'm sure I speak for many when I say we can solve your problem by letting that pesky little state of yours secede.
Therefore you can live OS without ever leaving home !!
Teehee
i'm sure I speak for many when I say we can solve your problem by letting that pesky little state of yours secede.
Therefore you can live OS without ever leaving home !!
Teehee
