Merged: Big changes for Qantas cadets
Tempo be a bit realistic here. I may not entirely agree with it but for me to start a 'cadet campaign' to have it removed, well let's just say I've got more chance of my rocking horse taking a crap than getting the numbers together for that. As for the Qrewroom post that obviously pushed a few people's buttons, perhaps he agrees with the LOA and thinks he's entitled to his 2 years seniority. I guess it comes back to fact that everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
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Astroboy55
If only more thought like you and were grateful for what they had, rather than what they didn't have, or not getting. Everyone complaining about what they're not getting, how much of a ******** the CEO is, how much he gets paid (all the while, not volunteering for the position themselves), complaining about anyone and everyone above them or in management. I have cut someone who I thought was a pretty decent guy adrift as a mate because he's just turned into this ever-complaining, arrogant, whinging pilot. Can't even get an intelligent conversation out of him anymore. Seems it's not confined to just pilots though; a quick review of posts in the Cabin Crew forums shows similar traits. A similar story in parts of ATC as well. Maybe its aviation in general. Sad really - I bloody well love the industry.
If only more thought like you and were grateful for what they had, rather than what they didn't have, or not getting. Everyone complaining about what they're not getting, how much of a ******** the CEO is, how much he gets paid (all the while, not volunteering for the position themselves), complaining about anyone and everyone above them or in management. I have cut someone who I thought was a pretty decent guy adrift as a mate because he's just turned into this ever-complaining, arrogant, whinging pilot. Can't even get an intelligent conversation out of him anymore. Seems it's not confined to just pilots though; a quick review of posts in the Cabin Crew forums shows similar traits. A similar story in parts of ATC as well. Maybe its aviation in general. Sad really - I bloody well love the industry.
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Dear Cadets
I will drink with anyone. I like all people no matter their background pre QF. We all have lotz to offer. So lets all be merry, hug it out and ****.
I do however LOATHE LOA161.
NOTE TO CADETS - THIS DOESNT MEAN THAT WE HATE YOU JUST THAT WE HATE THE INTERPRETATION OF THE RULE OF LOA161
So lets separate the issue
Hating LOA 161 doesn't = hating cadets
I will drink with anyone. I like all people no matter their background pre QF. We all have lotz to offer. So lets all be merry, hug it out and ****.
I do however LOATHE LOA161.
NOTE TO CADETS - THIS DOESNT MEAN THAT WE HATE YOU JUST THAT WE HATE THE INTERPRETATION OF THE RULE OF LOA161
So lets separate the issue
Hating LOA 161 doesn't = hating cadets
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Maybe I am stupid. However a few things strike me about reading through this thread about the tension caused by the issue of seniority list just has me in disbelief.
Whilst i have nothing to do with qantas their cadetship issue/mainline direct entry pilots.
As an outsider who is just observing and have an independent view due not to having a vested interest in either way of determining seniority. It seems that the issue of seniority is about rewarding a sense of loyalty to the company. With loyalty comes with the added benefits. Everybody likes the added benefits. Is this the idea of seniority?
So to me the argument is about does a direct entry pilot exhibit greater, lessor or the same loyalty to the company than a cadet?
Scenario 1. Cadet into the trainee ship and De pilot employed to mainline at the same time. Cadet doesn't get any of the benefits until secures a job into mainline if i can understand the process correctly. De pilot has a job is being employed recieves benefits over the cadet. Rightly so as the de pilot is producing some form of productivity. 2 years down the track cadet gets job in mainline recieves same seniority as de pilot. De pilot feels ripped off due to 2 years of being productive where as cadet "seemingly" walks in gets same seniority as themselves. However company seemingly takes the view hey cadet you have been faithful to us in sticking with shelling out money, not earning much, being under scrutiny to meet established training pricipals and you still want to come to work with us. For your loyalty and devotion to sticking with it we will treat you as joining our company from the day you started your cadetship. hmmmm a company rewarding loyalty for a person. I wonder whether we should be applaudind such a thing?
The DE pilot feels ripped of as has probably had to jump through all sorts of hoops to obtain the experience endorsements to get there. However how many of thoose de pilots have exhibted real job loyalty to the companys they have worked for in the process. Hypothetically many De pilots have probably had small firms pay for endorsements in new types and then 6 months later moved on to bigger and better things so they can get to their goal of getting to said comnpanys mainline. Does this really speak of a persons loyalty ? SO qantas makes a bold psycholgic assesment of the canditure and suggest maybe not. The thing about generalisations are they are false
So they say hmm de pilot let you prove to us your loyalty as we know almost nothing of you so seniority comes from the day you enter the company.
The DE pilot gets upset because they are feeling like they a being type cast, because they felt they had to do it the "hard way". The comments about buying your way into a cadetship highlight this premise. You might like to explore the thought process that makes people feeling like it is the hard way but some of the best learning they did. Some might have learnt how to play the political game and how to screw the system up for people that follow them jump over the top of everybody and put down others to strive to get to the top. Some might have learnt that to get where they have got to they had to do that, but didn't like it and it was hard to cross some of the morals and ethics that were questioned. That is an individuals discovery process. Some may resent that process some may not. But learning things is genrally can be hard at first to come to terms with. (hard is a relative measure, what is hard for some is easy for others come back to einstiens relativity all back to the point of observation and can also have degrees. the degrees of freedom)
But maybe i have missed some of the points. I just feel that no matter what process you went to get into your position well done. Enjoy what entitlements that you have under the current award and de pilots stop being so selfish and thinking that what you have done makes you any more special than cadets. Yes you may have more experience, skills, but if you maybe view that seniority could be about loyalty and realise that you might get the chips of your shoulders thinking that experience counts for everything. Because i know i sure would like to be in a company that promotes a culture of loyalty. note: qantas does not always seem to promote loyalty it seems. or the feeling of feeling valued
so bring on the flames. If the issues are about the lack of humility that cadets show in a willingness to learn. thats a different issue in a lot of ways. but that is an issue that goes back to young buck old buck scenarios. So old bucks just have that knowing smile that comes from having that wisdom that has come with the wealth of years.
Whilst i have nothing to do with qantas their cadetship issue/mainline direct entry pilots.
As an outsider who is just observing and have an independent view due not to having a vested interest in either way of determining seniority. It seems that the issue of seniority is about rewarding a sense of loyalty to the company. With loyalty comes with the added benefits. Everybody likes the added benefits. Is this the idea of seniority?
So to me the argument is about does a direct entry pilot exhibit greater, lessor or the same loyalty to the company than a cadet?
Scenario 1. Cadet into the trainee ship and De pilot employed to mainline at the same time. Cadet doesn't get any of the benefits until secures a job into mainline if i can understand the process correctly. De pilot has a job is being employed recieves benefits over the cadet. Rightly so as the de pilot is producing some form of productivity. 2 years down the track cadet gets job in mainline recieves same seniority as de pilot. De pilot feels ripped off due to 2 years of being productive where as cadet "seemingly" walks in gets same seniority as themselves. However company seemingly takes the view hey cadet you have been faithful to us in sticking with shelling out money, not earning much, being under scrutiny to meet established training pricipals and you still want to come to work with us. For your loyalty and devotion to sticking with it we will treat you as joining our company from the day you started your cadetship. hmmmm a company rewarding loyalty for a person. I wonder whether we should be applaudind such a thing?
The DE pilot feels ripped of as has probably had to jump through all sorts of hoops to obtain the experience endorsements to get there. However how many of thoose de pilots have exhibted real job loyalty to the companys they have worked for in the process. Hypothetically many De pilots have probably had small firms pay for endorsements in new types and then 6 months later moved on to bigger and better things so they can get to their goal of getting to said comnpanys mainline. Does this really speak of a persons loyalty ? SO qantas makes a bold psycholgic assesment of the canditure and suggest maybe not. The thing about generalisations are they are false
So they say hmm de pilot let you prove to us your loyalty as we know almost nothing of you so seniority comes from the day you enter the company. The DE pilot gets upset because they are feeling like they a being type cast, because they felt they had to do it the "hard way". The comments about buying your way into a cadetship highlight this premise. You might like to explore the thought process that makes people feeling like it is the hard way but some of the best learning they did. Some might have learnt how to play the political game and how to screw the system up for people that follow them jump over the top of everybody and put down others to strive to get to the top. Some might have learnt that to get where they have got to they had to do that, but didn't like it and it was hard to cross some of the morals and ethics that were questioned. That is an individuals discovery process. Some may resent that process some may not. But learning things is genrally can be hard at first to come to terms with. (hard is a relative measure, what is hard for some is easy for others come back to einstiens relativity all back to the point of observation and can also have degrees. the degrees of freedom)
But maybe i have missed some of the points. I just feel that no matter what process you went to get into your position well done. Enjoy what entitlements that you have under the current award and de pilots stop being so selfish and thinking that what you have done makes you any more special than cadets. Yes you may have more experience, skills, but if you maybe view that seniority could be about loyalty and realise that you might get the chips of your shoulders thinking that experience counts for everything. Because i know i sure would like to be in a company that promotes a culture of loyalty. note: qantas does not always seem to promote loyalty it seems. or the feeling of feeling valued
so bring on the flames. If the issues are about the lack of humility that cadets show in a willingness to learn. thats a different issue in a lot of ways. but that is an issue that goes back to young buck old buck scenarios. So old bucks just have that knowing smile that comes from having that wisdom that has come with the wealth of years.
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Dear redleader78
Thank you for the psychological assement for DE, QF and cadets.
Its got nothing to do whether you were a rockstar, a swinger, RAAF, GA or a cadet. This is all you need to understand. The day you start at QF as an EMPLOYEE is when you should get your seniority. So for eg
I start flying in march and Mr cadet starts flying in February of the same year. He/she is entitled to have seniority over me because he/she has been working for QF longer than me.
I may have more experience (good and bad) but they are entitled with no gripes from me to have seniority over me. I dont care who paid for what/trained where/RAAF/GA/NASA (insert heart breaking story here etc), seniority starts when you start as an employee. Doesnt matter what you did before.
LOA161 gives seniority to people who aren't employees. I have been to AIRC and there are precedents in other feilds that suggest this practice isn't correct.
So this is not a hard yards vs silver spoon. Not a DE vs GA, this is just a fair request that seniority numbers should start when you are an employeeof the company. Cadets and other should realise that cadet bashing is a separate issue
Thank you for the psychological assement for DE, QF and cadets.
Its got nothing to do whether you were a rockstar, a swinger, RAAF, GA or a cadet. This is all you need to understand. The day you start at QF as an EMPLOYEE is when you should get your seniority. So for eg
I start flying in march and Mr cadet starts flying in February of the same year. He/she is entitled to have seniority over me because he/she has been working for QF longer than me.
I may have more experience (good and bad) but they are entitled with no gripes from me to have seniority over me. I dont care who paid for what/trained where/RAAF/GA/NASA (insert heart breaking story here etc), seniority starts when you start as an employee. Doesnt matter what you did before.
LOA161 gives seniority to people who aren't employees. I have been to AIRC and there are precedents in other feilds that suggest this practice isn't correct.
So this is not a hard yards vs silver spoon. Not a DE vs GA, this is just a fair request that seniority numbers should start when you are an employeeof the company. Cadets and other should realise that cadet bashing is a separate issue
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Furthermore I as most DE guys who actually understand the whole story have no gripe with the original people who were on the LOA. The continuance of this is the farce I speak about
shmoo, mate, you're banging your head against a brick wall. Fair or not, its done. Maybe it will change in the next EBA, maybe it wont. Im sure you'll be an advocate of change. As will I. My point is, from the guys and gals who were named on the list, up until those cadets who start until the the new EBA commences, all will have, and will keep, the seniority from LOA161.
Some of these guys have slots coming up, some are already FO's....its not gonna change. Perhaps our efforts could be better spent focussing on making sure us as SO's dont get screwed again in some other way in the next EBA.
Some of these guys have slots coming up, some are already FO's....its not gonna change. Perhaps our efforts could be better spent focussing on making sure us as SO's dont get screwed again in some other way in the next EBA.
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I can see from a DE perspective that LOA161 is seemingly unfair but there have been people who use this to bad-mouth cadets. As a cadet who graduated a few years ago, I was given a reserved seniority number upon graduation but I don't think this is a fair way of discriminating against us because of this.
From recent posts, I see that we have come to more or less a conclusion that it LOA161 =/ hating cadets but at the end of the day, I don't feel we are obliged to go to management and give up our seniority because of a misinterpretation which I certainly never created.
But even if LOA161 was abolished, are you DE pilots would still not hold a grudge against cadets?
I've certainly enjoyed the experience that the cadetship has offered me. I was very young, especially for a cadet's standard I suppose when I was given the opportunity of a lifetime. I've wanted to be a pilot since seeing the first aircraft that flew across the sky and I dont feel as if that passion for aviation should be held against me all because I came through to the airlines via the cadetship.
I enjoy socialising with pilots because we all have our different stories and experiences. It is amazing to hear what DE pilots have done whilst out at bush and I know that I certainly have a slight twinge of regret for perhaps not coming p this route but because of the offer, I was given another pathway which I opted to take.
I've worked as hard, perhaps in a different sense to those who have gone bush. I wasn't born wth a silver spoon in my mouth and it was me who decided to teach kids at Sydney Aquatic for two years, saving every little penny to get to a point where my single mother was happy to fork out the rest.
I think I've had my little say in this now
From recent posts, I see that we have come to more or less a conclusion that it LOA161 =/ hating cadets but at the end of the day, I don't feel we are obliged to go to management and give up our seniority because of a misinterpretation which I certainly never created.
But even if LOA161 was abolished, are you DE pilots would still not hold a grudge against cadets?
I've certainly enjoyed the experience that the cadetship has offered me. I was very young, especially for a cadet's standard I suppose when I was given the opportunity of a lifetime. I've wanted to be a pilot since seeing the first aircraft that flew across the sky and I dont feel as if that passion for aviation should be held against me all because I came through to the airlines via the cadetship.
I enjoy socialising with pilots because we all have our different stories and experiences. It is amazing to hear what DE pilots have done whilst out at bush and I know that I certainly have a slight twinge of regret for perhaps not coming p this route but because of the offer, I was given another pathway which I opted to take.
I've worked as hard, perhaps in a different sense to those who have gone bush. I wasn't born wth a silver spoon in my mouth and it was me who decided to teach kids at Sydney Aquatic for two years, saving every little penny to get to a point where my single mother was happy to fork out the rest.
I think I've had my little say in this now
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Employ cadets straight out of training & on day one lottery send them to Qantaslink under a secondment for two years.
Still employed by QF, still working in the QF group.
End result, it's still their trainset.
Still employed by QF, still working in the QF group.
End result, it's still their trainset.
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This is directed to all those who are current cadets, or all budding pilots wanting that Qantas career. Please don't get discouraged from the "cadet bashing" that goes on around here, and let it affect your chosen career path.
As a Cadet (albeit one before the CIPP), I've found no-one so far in the airline who has "hated" me. They might be around, but I've never had any issues. Why? Because people take you on face value. If you are an aviator who meets the standard, and you're a reasonably amiable sort of person, then your background is largely irrelivant.
Fortunately, inside QF, whilst there is a lot of argument (and anger) about the LOA (which I understand) , crews are intelligent enough to realise that it is a Company/Union issue, and that the Cadets are the last people to have any influence over it. They play the ball (the LOA) not the man.
There is a lot of anger towards the individuals around the place, but its all coming from OUTSIDE QF. Some of these people think that they have been in the queue longer and done the hard yards so have some inherant right to a job in the airline. Ironically, many of these same people don't realise that it is this sort of attitude that holds them back from their airline job. If there is one thing that airline recruiters don't like, its an inability to accept people of other backgrounds and experiences, especially in this day when CRM is king.
Don't get caught up with the LOA argument, its an internal Qantas issue to do with reserved seniority that whilst is important to those affected, isn't something to worry about for someone new joining the company now. There might be a few reserved seniority numbers above you... this could be for any reason the company and the union agree to. When you join, take your position, and take your career as it comes.
There are merits to each of the cadet programs, military and GA flying paths, and which one is best for you is really a matter of "Horses for Courses". Go to the information sessions, and talk to friends. Talk to anyone you know in the industry. Most of all, make the decision for your future for YOU, not from the anonymous experts around here who say you're a far better pilot if you've done the hard yards. I agree that experience counts for a lot in this game, but what is more important is how you study, prepare, and most importantly learn from your actions. Do this through any of the paths, and you'll be a safe and successful pilot.
Good Luck in whatever career paths you choose!
A.C.C.
As a Cadet (albeit one before the CIPP), I've found no-one so far in the airline who has "hated" me. They might be around, but I've never had any issues. Why? Because people take you on face value. If you are an aviator who meets the standard, and you're a reasonably amiable sort of person, then your background is largely irrelivant.
Fortunately, inside QF, whilst there is a lot of argument (and anger) about the LOA (which I understand) , crews are intelligent enough to realise that it is a Company/Union issue, and that the Cadets are the last people to have any influence over it. They play the ball (the LOA) not the man.
There is a lot of anger towards the individuals around the place, but its all coming from OUTSIDE QF. Some of these people think that they have been in the queue longer and done the hard yards so have some inherant right to a job in the airline. Ironically, many of these same people don't realise that it is this sort of attitude that holds them back from their airline job. If there is one thing that airline recruiters don't like, its an inability to accept people of other backgrounds and experiences, especially in this day when CRM is king.
Don't get caught up with the LOA argument, its an internal Qantas issue to do with reserved seniority that whilst is important to those affected, isn't something to worry about for someone new joining the company now. There might be a few reserved seniority numbers above you... this could be for any reason the company and the union agree to. When you join, take your position, and take your career as it comes.
There are merits to each of the cadet programs, military and GA flying paths, and which one is best for you is really a matter of "Horses for Courses". Go to the information sessions, and talk to friends. Talk to anyone you know in the industry. Most of all, make the decision for your future for YOU, not from the anonymous experts around here who say you're a far better pilot if you've done the hard yards. I agree that experience counts for a lot in this game, but what is more important is how you study, prepare, and most importantly learn from your actions. Do this through any of the paths, and you'll be a safe and successful pilot.
Good Luck in whatever career paths you choose!
A.C.C.
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nah not psychological assessment more just expressing my musings as i try to come to terms with the issues. To look at the issue in another light.
So to try and simplify it down for me does it all comes down when a person actually starts employed into a flying role, that they should have seniority?
Employment by definition is an activity that one devotes time. It does not necessarily have to be for remuneration that a lot of people assume that you have to fulfill being employed. Honorary ambulance officers come to mind. Now think about the cadets. I would assume the selection that qantas applies for the cadet ship is pretty rigorous. I would also assume that the cadets would most likely be subject to some sort of code of conduct that qantas operates under, with an appropiate discplinary procedure for not fulfilling the expectation. The cadet also devotes a fair amount of their time to the activity fulfilling thoose requirements that qantas demands. So i don't think it is that much of a stretch to understand a nexus could be established that the cadets are representing qantas and there is a form of employment happening.
Instead of trying to destroy the working conditions of one of your fellow employees and people that de people feel they are being discriminated against because they are not currently being remunerated in a flying role on mainline. Maybe focus on as a collective and be arguing about better pay conditions etc. before trying to because the De group is i assume bigger numerically commit acts of bullying because the award has a clause in it that de group don't like as it seemingly disadvantages this group. Pilots are competive bunch, and don't like when another group seemingly gets a percieved advantage.
ideally as mstr caution stated would be great but, i imagine the cost of that could be high.
So to try and simplify it down for me does it all comes down when a person actually starts employed into a flying role, that they should have seniority?
Employment by definition is an activity that one devotes time. It does not necessarily have to be for remuneration that a lot of people assume that you have to fulfill being employed. Honorary ambulance officers come to mind. Now think about the cadets. I would assume the selection that qantas applies for the cadet ship is pretty rigorous. I would also assume that the cadets would most likely be subject to some sort of code of conduct that qantas operates under, with an appropiate discplinary procedure for not fulfilling the expectation. The cadet also devotes a fair amount of their time to the activity fulfilling thoose requirements that qantas demands. So i don't think it is that much of a stretch to understand a nexus could be established that the cadets are representing qantas and there is a form of employment happening.
Instead of trying to destroy the working conditions of one of your fellow employees and people that de people feel they are being discriminated against because they are not currently being remunerated in a flying role on mainline. Maybe focus on as a collective and be arguing about better pay conditions etc. before trying to because the De group is i assume bigger numerically commit acts of bullying because the award has a clause in it that de group don't like as it seemingly disadvantages this group. Pilots are competive bunch, and don't like when another group seemingly gets a percieved advantage.
ideally as mstr caution stated would be great but, i imagine the cost of that could be high.
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Mstr Caution
Qantaslink is part of the Qantas group, but separate companies, anyone who starts with qantaslink is employed by either sunstate airlines or eastern airlines and gets a seniority number with that company. There is no arrangements in place to transfer from any Qantas group company to Qantas.
Cadets who are employed by qantaslink effectively have two seniority numbers one of which is for a company who has not employed them yet.
Qantaslink is part of the Qantas group, but separate companies, anyone who starts with qantaslink is employed by either sunstate airlines or eastern airlines and gets a seniority number with that company. There is no arrangements in place to transfer from any Qantas group company to Qantas.
Cadets who are employed by qantaslink effectively have two seniority numbers one of which is for a company who has not employed them yet.
Thread Starter
MstrCaution
So with that logic should all guys who currently work in the Qantas group and hold a letter of intent for direct entry also have a reserved seniority number from oh, let's say the date their letter was issued?
So with that logic should all guys who currently work in the Qantas group and hold a letter of intent for direct entry also have a reserved seniority number from oh, let's say the date their letter was issued?
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New Sensation,
I understand the current state of play.
There are current arrangements in place (Qantas / Jetstar MOU) to "transfer" ** from mainline to J* or vv with a "preserved" seniority number in the reipient airline. Some have chosen to "transfer" to J* but, to date I dont recall any have "transferred" J* to Mainline.
My post was to merely state that with a handhake, agreement, stroke of a pen conditions may change. A few years ago, CIPP never existed, nor cadet placement in QFlink.
In my opinion, whether it's an MOU, hotspot, cadetship, secondment or special arrangement or whatever. We're all part of a larger QF group & that should be expressed as a group seniority list with opportunities for all. But since I have no ambition to be CP, it's their trainset & they will continue to run it however way they chose.
MC
** "Transfer" meaning apply & be accepted**
I understand the current state of play.
There are current arrangements in place (Qantas / Jetstar MOU) to "transfer" ** from mainline to J* or vv with a "preserved" seniority number in the reipient airline. Some have chosen to "transfer" to J* but, to date I dont recall any have "transferred" J* to Mainline.
My post was to merely state that with a handhake, agreement, stroke of a pen conditions may change. A few years ago, CIPP never existed, nor cadet placement in QFlink.
In my opinion, whether it's an MOU, hotspot, cadetship, secondment or special arrangement or whatever. We're all part of a larger QF group & that should be expressed as a group seniority list with opportunities for all. But since I have no ambition to be CP, it's their trainset & they will continue to run it however way they chose.
MC
** "Transfer" meaning apply & be accepted**
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Dragun,
Even better.
If it was my trainset, anyone employed within QFlink would have a preserved seniority number for the purpose of career progression to mainline from the date they commenced employment in QFlink or some other nominal date, ie: a date at which an agreement is reached.
Of course there would be those who hold enough seniority within QFlink to get say a 737 or 767 command. But there would still need to be minimum time on type/rank in mainline prior to promotion, hence no direct entry commands. The problem is, this matter should have been resolved 15 years ago, but it wasn't.
This would be rewarding those who are contributing to the profit of the QF group whilst employed in susidiary companies. And two, cap the loss of pilots to other airlines due to no structured career path to mainline. And three engage the workforce.
But it aint my trainset.
MC
Even better.
If it was my trainset, anyone employed within QFlink would have a preserved seniority number for the purpose of career progression to mainline from the date they commenced employment in QFlink or some other nominal date, ie: a date at which an agreement is reached.
Of course there would be those who hold enough seniority within QFlink to get say a 737 or 767 command. But there would still need to be minimum time on type/rank in mainline prior to promotion, hence no direct entry commands. The problem is, this matter should have been resolved 15 years ago, but it wasn't.
This would be rewarding those who are contributing to the profit of the QF group whilst employed in susidiary companies. And two, cap the loss of pilots to other airlines due to no structured career path to mainline. And three engage the workforce.
But it aint my trainset.
MC
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I feel more stupid now that I have read this.
Cadets get pressured pretty hard, and when QF/Training Mob decide to make an example of someone (unfounded or not), they'll do what they can to make them look bad. I know of it happening at one point last year...
as for the Seniority, these are the hand-picked future core staff of Qantas. They go through rigorous training, selection, excessive pressure loading and more bs than you can imagine. For putting up with all the s&%^ they deserve the seniority number.
Go on with your tough GA s***. I work in GA; it is not going to get another generation of pilots. Why go and work for no money, with three supporting jobs and ****house conditions in the bush (away from all your family and friends) when you can do two or three year at uni, earn 5 times as much as most similar aged GA Pilots, and therefore have spare cash to spend on flying for fun? Seriously, why? If GEN Y do boycott the industry like I predict, who can blame them? This is where the cadet programmes come in. Sure they cost much more than your run of the mill flying school, and don't put out a pilot of any better quality (despite what they preach), but the way it was with the CIPP and seniority has the only aviation appeal to Gen Y. If this stays as it is, in 10 years the pilot shortage will be way worse than what it was a few months ago.
Cadets get pressured pretty hard, and when QF/Training Mob decide to make an example of someone (unfounded or not), they'll do what they can to make them look bad. I know of it happening at one point last year...
as for the Seniority, these are the hand-picked future core staff of Qantas. They go through rigorous training, selection, excessive pressure loading and more bs than you can imagine. For putting up with all the s&%^ they deserve the seniority number.
Go on with your tough GA s***. I work in GA; it is not going to get another generation of pilots. Why go and work for no money, with three supporting jobs and ****house conditions in the bush (away from all your family and friends) when you can do two or three year at uni, earn 5 times as much as most similar aged GA Pilots, and therefore have spare cash to spend on flying for fun? Seriously, why? If GEN Y do boycott the industry like I predict, who can blame them? This is where the cadet programmes come in. Sure they cost much more than your run of the mill flying school, and don't put out a pilot of any better quality (despite what they preach), but the way it was with the CIPP and seniority has the only aviation appeal to Gen Y. If this stays as it is, in 10 years the pilot shortage will be way worse than what it was a few months ago.