Qantas Link in Crisis again....now its for Captains!
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What is Qantaslink other than a name... no one actually works for Qantaslink!
Pilots ground staff etc are employed by Sunstate Airlines, Eastern Australia Airlines (the only companies owned by Qantas) or employed by National Jet Systems who contract to Qantas.
The company likes to pretend it is all one Group!
Pilots ground staff etc are employed by Sunstate Airlines, Eastern Australia Airlines (the only companies owned by Qantas) or employed by National Jet Systems who contract to Qantas.
The company likes to pretend it is all one Group!
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hi grumpy greyhound
hi mate - i hope you had a happy christmas with mum and the kids - you know me - i just like to stir the pot every now and then
have a happy new year and see you in 2009
have a happy new year and see you in 2009
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Kangaroo court - what the hell is wrong with you? I've read through all 5 pages in this thread so far and all I see is you and your stupid pointless comments in each one.
The FL250 comment is a joke, either you are incredibly stupid or your head is so far up your own arse you have lost all common sense. You must really enjoy flying a jet.. good for you. Before you go making comments like that why don't you try doing a 90 minute sector in a fully loaded 300 series dash at FL160 on a typical summers afternoon. I'm sure they work a hell of a lot harder than you do.
If I didn't know any better I would say you were a QF 74 s/o who really doesn't work for a living.. but since I don't know that I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Take your arrogant comments elsewhere nobody wants to hear them.
Now Burger, there's a good guy. Good on ya mate
The FL250 comment is a joke, either you are incredibly stupid or your head is so far up your own arse you have lost all common sense. You must really enjoy flying a jet.. good for you. Before you go making comments like that why don't you try doing a 90 minute sector in a fully loaded 300 series dash at FL160 on a typical summers afternoon. I'm sure they work a hell of a lot harder than you do.
If I didn't know any better I would say you were a QF 74 s/o who really doesn't work for a living.. but since I don't know that I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Take your arrogant comments elsewhere nobody wants to hear them.
Now Burger, there's a good guy. Good on ya mate
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command endorsement?
True - not many (if any?) FO's would have a command endorsement at the moment. ICUS does however give management a tool to get FO's 'upgradeable' a lot sooner than just logging FO hours.
Taxi the sim around a bit, start some engines, put out some fires and whamo - shiny new sticker in your logbook! All the real captan training can be done when they actually get in the LHS.
Other airlines in aus have been doing this for years - skippy's in Perth for example.
Taxi the sim around a bit, start some engines, put out some fires and whamo - shiny new sticker in your logbook! All the real captan training can be done when they actually get in the LHS.
Other airlines in aus have been doing this for years - skippy's in Perth for example.
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Chode
Yeah eastern has a high cap AOC so only ATPL and company requirments are needed. But activating an ATPL is the problem for most of the guys and gals coming through. ATPL req are 1500 TT of which 750 hours have to be either PIC or ICUS; 75 hours instrument (45 inflight); 100 hours night; and the rest whatever, hence the problem.
Yeah eastern has a high cap AOC so only ATPL and company requirments are needed. But activating an ATPL is the problem for most of the guys and gals coming through. ATPL req are 1500 TT of which 750 hours have to be either PIC or ICUS; 75 hours instrument (45 inflight); 100 hours night; and the rest whatever, hence the problem.
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Well Sunnies just awarded about 16 commands, which should take them at least 6 months to train and get on line.
ATPL req are 1500 TT of which 750 hours have to be either PIC or ICUS; 75 hours instrument (45 inflight); 100 hours night; and the rest whatever, hence the problem.
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The problem is not the lack of experienced F/O's in the company, There are enough at the moment, the problem is the experiences F/O's (those who have the requirements) are frozen for 18 months on the Q400 and the company wont release them to gain command, lots of senior F/O's are being leap frogged.... or told sorry not until after 18 months buddy..... and then they leave command spots vacant rather than abolish the freeze.
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So Dee did you know that there was a freeze??
If yes, then whose faults that, why go on the 400 in the first place? If no, once again whose faults that, read the fine print?
If yes, then whose faults that, why go on the 400 in the first place? If no, once again whose faults that, read the fine print?
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Typical Gen Y attitude that - you knew what you were signing on for, then want to whinge when it doesn't go your way. Is it because you're dirty on trainees for having it even easier that your direct entry run?
Up until recently time to upgrade was 5-7 years and noone complained.
From my own experience I don't believe 18 months fo is sufficient experience for upgrade to command unless you come from a previous airline background.
Up until recently time to upgrade was 5-7 years and noone complained.
From my own experience I don't believe 18 months fo is sufficient experience for upgrade to command unless you come from a previous airline background.
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I chose to forego the extra dollars available on the Q400 and stay with the sustaining fleet on the "very slim" chance that a command might have come up prior to the expiration of the Command Experience Scheme.
It was a gamble with my pay packet and it involved a significantly greater duty time per roster than the 400 FO's were doing back then, but it looks like it payed off in the long run. I'd have been very disappointed if those still "frozen" on the 400 were awarded command positions ahead of me.
There could still be others whom made the same decision I did and are possibly falling just short of the company requirements but will be upgradeable well within the timeframe of the command training that is to be undertaken? They'd probably be pretty disappointed too...
It was a gamble with my pay packet and it involved a significantly greater duty time per roster than the 400 FO's were doing back then, but it looks like it payed off in the long run. I'd have been very disappointed if those still "frozen" on the 400 were awarded command positions ahead of me.
There could still be others whom made the same decision I did and are possibly falling just short of the company requirements but will be upgradeable well within the timeframe of the command training that is to be undertaken? They'd probably be pretty disappointed too...
Swings and roundabouts pjam. This game can be very fickle and many have paid the price for taking a wrong turn, just as many others have profitted from taking the right one.
2 mates of mine joined Ansett back in the early nineties, (post AFAP ban). Both progressed from the F50 as F/O's onto the A320, again as F/O's. As movement off the Fokker was relatively rapid, commands came up on the turbo-prop fairly quickly, and both were offered left seat positions back on their previous equipment. One chose to take it, the other decided to stay put as he felt an offer of command on the bus' would not be far away. A short time later Ansett disposed of the F50, and the pilots retrained onto other jet equipment. Many of the F50 Captains were junior to those that stayed on the jets as F/O's, but because the commands at Ansett were perpetual, irrespective of type or seniority, the Captains on the now defunct Turbo-props were given priority of commands over F/O's on the jet equipment. The old mate who chose to stay on the A320 spent the rest of his career with Ansett haveing never made command!
I guess the morale to the story is, try to be totally familiar with what the results of a change will be. If it goes your way, great. If it doesn't, at least be comforted by the fact you may have "gambled" and lost!
2 mates of mine joined Ansett back in the early nineties, (post AFAP ban). Both progressed from the F50 as F/O's onto the A320, again as F/O's. As movement off the Fokker was relatively rapid, commands came up on the turbo-prop fairly quickly, and both were offered left seat positions back on their previous equipment. One chose to take it, the other decided to stay put as he felt an offer of command on the bus' would not be far away. A short time later Ansett disposed of the F50, and the pilots retrained onto other jet equipment. Many of the F50 Captains were junior to those that stayed on the jets as F/O's, but because the commands at Ansett were perpetual, irrespective of type or seniority, the Captains on the now defunct Turbo-props were given priority of commands over F/O's on the jet equipment. The old mate who chose to stay on the A320 spent the rest of his career with Ansett haveing never made command!
I guess the morale to the story is, try to be totally familiar with what the results of a change will be. If it goes your way, great. If it doesn't, at least be comforted by the fact you may have "gambled" and lost!
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your missing the point people, why is there a freeze at eastern but not at sunstate, and the Q400 is a sunstate aircraft. Also a few of the frozen F/O's have been in the company for more than 18 months, Also why does the freeze apply to those who went directly onto the Q400. All the comments regarding Gen Y etc what a load of ****, times change move with it also the direct entry F/O's who Im referring to have vast experience, Qlink is not their first job, they did fly before hand and gained valuable experience on T-prop and Jets.
Also managment find it to their advantage when they do and dont enforce so called rules (re: Freeze). Management will run into this problem again in the future when the trainees reach command upgrade time, none will have ATPL then what will they do, to0 much short term quick fix thinking to fix problems even though they are warned by most who can see it coming.
My main point is why recruit externally when the experience is already in the company, freeze or no freeze.... thats the issue (not the you know what you signed up for ####, tell that to a vietnam vet or a WW2 soldier, situations change so be flexible and adapt.
And for Mr Whippy, I never said it effected me, i just saw the problem and have suggested a solution, Im quite happy with my lifestyle roster and not getting flogged. After all the EBA does say "up to 18 months" for the freeze. so does this mean it can be waivered.
Quote : A pilot who elects to bid from a Dash 8 300/200 or 100 series aircraft onto the Dash 8 –
400 will lose the right to undertake a further change of equipment, status or variant for a
period of up to eighteen (18) months, from the date of clearance to the line.
Also managment find it to their advantage when they do and dont enforce so called rules (re: Freeze). Management will run into this problem again in the future when the trainees reach command upgrade time, none will have ATPL then what will they do, to0 much short term quick fix thinking to fix problems even though they are warned by most who can see it coming.
My main point is why recruit externally when the experience is already in the company, freeze or no freeze.... thats the issue (not the you know what you signed up for ####, tell that to a vietnam vet or a WW2 soldier, situations change so be flexible and adapt.
And for Mr Whippy, I never said it effected me, i just saw the problem and have suggested a solution, Im quite happy with my lifestyle roster and not getting flogged. After all the EBA does say "up to 18 months" for the freeze. so does this mean it can be waivered.
Quote : A pilot who elects to bid from a Dash 8 300/200 or 100 series aircraft onto the Dash 8 –
400 will lose the right to undertake a further change of equipment, status or variant for a
period of up to eighteen (18) months, from the date of clearance to the line.
Last edited by Dee; 31st Dec 2008 at 01:30.
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Looks like things have gone a bit quiet on this topic, so...
back to Mr. burger61's comments that have gone unnoticed and/or unanswered.
(top of page 4)
"I wouldn't worry too much about the pilot skills..." (of new F/O's)
What is this pure genius statement? Easy enough for you to say sitting at your desk, I guess, burger61.
Lets see, it was one of those "cushy, nice days for flying" that we pilots always have according to you, when the new F/O let us float down the runway not able to do any slight experienced pilot things, so as my hands moved across to push the power levers forward and call going around, he chopped the power and we hit as hard as I could remember, all the way back to that Qantas 707 landing that opened just about all the overhead baggage lockers. (I was sitting in economy by the way)
Smart F/O, you bet, smarter than me by a nautical mile.
Lets see, it was one of those "cushy, nice days for flying" that we pilots always have, when after the F/O's touching down we started veering to the edge of the runway, I having a good look at the edging quality of the grass cutting techniques of the the groundsmen.
Smart F/O, you bet, smarter that me by a nautical mile at the very least.
burger61, I would hazzard a guess that most of the pilots on this topic could give you alot more "cushy, nice day" stories about F/O's gaining their on the job experiences AFTER their line training. Line captains ARE training captains, that's one reason we don't put our hands up to do it full time.
But we shouldn't be too worried about their pilot skills.
The other statement I want to look at is ,"I have to put up with the sick and injured (on) a DAILY basis." WOW, I would hate to work there. Which airline has an ER ward on site?!
As you say we do have all those sunny nice days of flying. Boring as batsh-t, as they should be.Cabin altitude of 8,000ft. getting slightly hypoxic. Why am I so tired after an easy 8 hour day of flying duty time?!
What fun dodging vfr pilots afraid to talk to you in CTAF's. I love the bird strikes, they're pretty neat! Pax sick, HEY GREAT a diversion! Throwing drunks off my flight is some of the best fun I have EVER HAD!
The airline coffee is BATSH-T! Think of us buger61 next time you buy your latte at the terminal coffee shop.
The flight attendants don't stay on the flight deck long enough anymore to talk them into anything. Think of us next time you are casually chatting them up in your crewroom as you say you do.
Well, off to the pilot pissup for New Years. Now where is that list of whinges?
back to Mr. burger61's comments that have gone unnoticed and/or unanswered.
(top of page 4)
"I wouldn't worry too much about the pilot skills..." (of new F/O's)
What is this pure genius statement? Easy enough for you to say sitting at your desk, I guess, burger61.
Lets see, it was one of those "cushy, nice days for flying" that we pilots always have according to you, when the new F/O let us float down the runway not able to do any slight experienced pilot things, so as my hands moved across to push the power levers forward and call going around, he chopped the power and we hit as hard as I could remember, all the way back to that Qantas 707 landing that opened just about all the overhead baggage lockers. (I was sitting in economy by the way)
Smart F/O, you bet, smarter than me by a nautical mile.
Lets see, it was one of those "cushy, nice days for flying" that we pilots always have, when after the F/O's touching down we started veering to the edge of the runway, I having a good look at the edging quality of the grass cutting techniques of the the groundsmen.
Smart F/O, you bet, smarter that me by a nautical mile at the very least.
burger61, I would hazzard a guess that most of the pilots on this topic could give you alot more "cushy, nice day" stories about F/O's gaining their on the job experiences AFTER their line training. Line captains ARE training captains, that's one reason we don't put our hands up to do it full time.
But we shouldn't be too worried about their pilot skills.
The other statement I want to look at is ,"I have to put up with the sick and injured (on) a DAILY basis." WOW, I would hate to work there. Which airline has an ER ward on site?!
As you say we do have all those sunny nice days of flying. Boring as batsh-t, as they should be.Cabin altitude of 8,000ft. getting slightly hypoxic. Why am I so tired after an easy 8 hour day of flying duty time?!
What fun dodging vfr pilots afraid to talk to you in CTAF's. I love the bird strikes, they're pretty neat! Pax sick, HEY GREAT a diversion! Throwing drunks off my flight is some of the best fun I have EVER HAD!
The airline coffee is BATSH-T! Think of us buger61 next time you buy your latte at the terminal coffee shop.
The flight attendants don't stay on the flight deck long enough anymore to talk them into anything. Think of us next time you are casually chatting them up in your crewroom as you say you do.
Well, off to the pilot pissup for New Years. Now where is that list of whinges?
Last edited by b55; 31st Dec 2008 at 06:52.
As someone who has 7 years experiance in both camps, I can see both sides. I worked in baggage untill I had 2000 hrs. Flying is more mentally demanding, throwing bags, amongst other things is more physically demanding (great for keeping the weight off - I;m 20kg up on my bag throwing weight.....I should just say fatter).
If I could, I'd still do a couple of shifts each week, its cheaper than a gym membership and actually its quite a challange. Especially if ur leading a crew of 10 on a regional ramp.
By the way, on one of my teams a few years ago, between us, we had 11,000 hrs, 7 ME-CIR's, 4 ATPLS. An old groundie who never flew or even finished school, but had 40 years in the industry taught me more than I could ever hope for. He had no "education", but man he could stick the tail of 400 tons of 747 within a cm of where he wanted it on a puchback.
Different work, different skills, but both have the same strong desire to get the job done. Both depend on each other.
If I could, I'd still do a couple of shifts each week, its cheaper than a gym membership and actually its quite a challange. Especially if ur leading a crew of 10 on a regional ramp.
By the way, on one of my teams a few years ago, between us, we had 11,000 hrs, 7 ME-CIR's, 4 ATPLS. An old groundie who never flew or even finished school, but had 40 years in the industry taught me more than I could ever hope for. He had no "education", but man he could stick the tail of 400 tons of 747 within a cm of where he wanted it on a puchback.
Different work, different skills, but both have the same strong desire to get the job done. Both depend on each other.
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hi b55
can you email me the next flight you are operating (or are you a 2nd officer and have not been allowed to touch the controls yet) - I have never heard anyone so up themselves - the only question I would like to ask - how do you see over the dash with your head so far up your ar_e...re the injured workers - why don't you go and talk to your managers and see how many staff at your business sustain injuries during the week - inc cabin crew, engineers, catering - again your probably so up yourself you only care about yourself - FIGJAM (I think that is the saying)
All I was saying in my first post - its just not the pilot group who is hard done by - other areas of any airline suffer in different ways that you guys do. Most people working in my airline have great respect for our crew - most are very big supporters of the pilot group and i know the sunnies pilot council do their best for their fellow pilots whether their established crew or the new recruits (the pilot council get support from most ground staff)- i thought it used to call it AIRMANSHIP - do you have any or just like sitting here being a ******
All I was saying in my first post - its just not the pilot group who is hard done by - other areas of any airline suffer in different ways that you guys do. Most people working in my airline have great respect for our crew - most are very big supporters of the pilot group and i know the sunnies pilot council do their best for their fellow pilots whether their established crew or the new recruits (the pilot council get support from most ground staff)- i thought it used to call it AIRMANSHIP - do you have any or just like sitting here being a ******
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Hey Burger,
You blew it mate! He was just trying to give you his side of the story and you went into melt down. You could never have made it as any member of flight or cabin crew with such poor personal control.
You're done!
Mod's he's not even a pilot!
You blew it mate! He was just trying to give you his side of the story and you went into melt down. You could never have made it as any member of flight or cabin crew with such poor personal control.
You're done!
Mod's he's not even a pilot!
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First post, hello everyone. Have been reading for a while. 'Burger' one of your posts mentioned sunny days, smooth skies etc. Even though the wx is clear etc. things aren't always going to run well, good wx days turn bad technical days v. quickly. If you are a true 'friend' of the pilot as you claim then you would understand that.
Whilst I agree you are not wrong, there are the 'coffee sippers' out there, you really do need to use caution in addressing what is perceived 'coffee sipping' and what is a solid state of situational awareness and ability to actiavte a refined management of (hopefully never) multiple problems.
I do agree with the previous post that your self control in this circumstance has been lacking and I am sorry to say 'JUMP SEAT' is one thing but 'CONTROL SEAT' is another.
Just mine. Regards.
Whilst I agree you are not wrong, there are the 'coffee sippers' out there, you really do need to use caution in addressing what is perceived 'coffee sipping' and what is a solid state of situational awareness and ability to actiavte a refined management of (hopefully never) multiple problems.
I do agree with the previous post that your self control in this circumstance has been lacking and I am sorry to say 'JUMP SEAT' is one thing but 'CONTROL SEAT' is another.
Just mine. Regards.