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AIPA or AFAP FOR JETSTAR

Old 2nd Sep 2019, 14:10
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post

Sorry if I missed an announcement but I certainly hadn’t heard AIPA say they were working to that sort of a deadline.
In fact, the President has said on numerous occasions that a resolution by the end of the year would be “extremely ambitious”. I think that is a delicate way of saying “there is fu#k all chance of that happening.”
Joyce has said he wants a decision on Sunrise for December’s board meeting and the pilots voting up a new EBA is needed for that to happen. On another forum it has been said that AIPA have met 5 times in the last 3/4 weeks on Sunrise and the EBA , where there is smoke there is fire in my opinion, only time will tell. If the short haul EBA is defeated then I think the long haul one will fade away till it is fixed. Or so I hope.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 22:04
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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I’m a QANTAS pilot. I’m a member of AIPA. What sh$ts me about this forum is other QANTAS pilots taking over threads that don’t relate to them, to talk about the same sh*t they bitch and moan about on other prune threads, and on qrewroom threads. This thread was about Jetstar. FFS let them have their discussion without changing it into yet another QANTAS thread.
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 22:12
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: dubai
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Until Jetstar Pilots form their own union and move away from multi union representation, expect the status quo to continue - Airline managers love nothing more than fragmented pilot representation each with their own vested interests.

A single union with professional negotiators delivering a united message is much more formidable to deal with from an airline management perspective.
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 13:09
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Originally Posted by Rashid Bacon View Post
Until Jetstar Pilots form their own union and move away from multi union representation, expect the status quo to continue - Airline managers love nothing more than fragmented pilot representation each with their own vested interests.

A single union with professional negotiators delivering a united message is much more formidable to deal with from an airline management perspective.
No need to form their own union, the AFAP is doing a pretty good job of representing Jetstar pilots, any members of AIPA and the other low-fare Union are free to join the vast majority of their colleagues at any time.
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 21:31
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
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No need to form their own union, the AFAP is doing a pretty good job of representing Jetstar pilots......
You miss the point - there are multiple negotiating interfaces happening here which will invariably dilute the outcome. A single, professionally managed negotiating front is a much better industrial tool.

The sad truth is that without this, Jetstar pilots will get the result they deserve.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 03:46
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Originally Posted by StudentInDebt View Post
No need to form their own union, the AFAP is doing a pretty good job of representing Jetstar pilots, any members of AIPA and the other low-fare Union are free to join the vast majority of their colleagues at any time.
S.I.D.
I make the assumption re. debt that you are relatively new on the scene.
I am at the other rend of the scale, and a former branch officeholder in the AFAP. Based on a perspective of some fifty or so years "in the business", I can say that, in my opinion, AFAP has never done a good job.
Indeed, at one stage, such a bad job, that it gave rise to AIPA.
All professional pilots in Australia would be/would have been better off represented by one union, but AFAP is not, in my opinion, that union, and never has been.
As far as airlines are concerned, the present setup is the gift that keeps on giving.
Tootle pip!!
Tootle pip!!
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 06:12
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 67
Indeed, at one stage, such a bad job, that it gave rise to AIPA.
And then at the next stage it imploded Both unions are working together under the guise of AusALPA to coordinate technical and safety issues. Its an example of how they can work together, its a pity it can't work at an industrial level.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 11:34
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Mycenae
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S.I.D.
I make the assumption re. debt that you are relatively new on the scene.
That’s the trouble with assumptions but I grant you I only have 6 years experience of AFAP’s relationship with Jetstar. In that time I have seen much success in how they’ve approached improving T&Cs including several victories at the FWC. But, given the history of airline/union relationships in Australia, it is no surprise to me that mistakes have been made in the past, hopefully they’ve been learned from.

Just to clear up your assumption I’ve been using PPRuNe since it was an email mailing list, should give you an idea as to how long I’ve been in the industry 8)
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 06:31
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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S.I.D,
As you have confirmed, new on the scene.
AUSALPA as a workaround to IFALPA membership rules is better than nothing, but only just.
But, as you correctly say, industrial issues are the main game in town, and divide and rule is the gift that keeps on giving..
If the AFAP is the answer, gawd help us, what was the question??
Tootle pip!!
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 13:47
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
S.I.D,
As you have confirmed, new on the scene
<SNIP>
If the AFAP is the answer, gawd help us, what was the question??
Tootle pip!!
Indeed but sometimes a situation needs fresh eyes. We are where we are industrially, with due respect to Santayana, if we’re going to move forward perhaps we shouldn’t spend all our time looking back?

cheerio

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