Joyce the new CEO of Qantas
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Keg,
A great post.
I am yet to meet anyone in Qantas who has had a bone to pick with Jetstar pilots.
Most just feel sad that Jetstar are flying on an award that is inferior to that in Qantas.
The opportunity was there to lift conditions but sadly the small majority of idiots got in the way and ruined a great chance for unity.
Look at the pay packets of pilots where there is unified representation and compare it to our sorry lot.
Will we ever learn.
A great post.
I am yet to meet anyone in Qantas who has had a bone to pick with Jetstar pilots.
Most just feel sad that Jetstar are flying on an award that is inferior to that in Qantas.
The opportunity was there to lift conditions but sadly the small majority of idiots got in the way and ruined a great chance for unity.
Look at the pay packets of pilots where there is unified representation and compare it to our sorry lot.
Will we ever learn.
What a joke.
The nerd couldn't even make it as a pilot now hes CEO who's going to kill the company even more. Usual policy cant hack a real job, get promoted
There should have been a vote by the shareholders not by the board who are all so far up Dixons arse its not funny.
The nerd couldn't even make it as a pilot now hes CEO who's going to kill the company even more. Usual policy cant hack a real job, get promoted
There should have been a vote by the shareholders not by the board who are all so far up Dixons arse its not funny.
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keg,
I am an admirer of your posts and your ability to argue the point and not the man. Please believe me when I say I understand and emphasise with your frustrations.
I can't agree with your assertions in regard to the JPC's intent as that body was not a party to the agreements you state were in place for your seat at the table. Their job was to look after Jetstar pilots.
Equally I enjoy the balanced view genex offers.
I know that great divides can be conquered with good communication and effort from those on either side.
You may not be aware that the new JPA committee is committed to facilitating a ballot of the Jetstar pilots, on Union affiliation/representation. I understand both the AIPA and the AFAP have been invited to provide their input to that process.
That aside many pilots at Jetstar have enjoyed firsthand the ability to speak directly and openly to AJ, expressing their view on AWA's, the latest EBA, and many other issues, at venues organised by AJ to hear those views.
He may even earn your confidence. Who knows?
I am an admirer of your posts and your ability to argue the point and not the man. Please believe me when I say I understand and emphasise with your frustrations.
I can't agree with your assertions in regard to the JPC's intent as that body was not a party to the agreements you state were in place for your seat at the table. Their job was to look after Jetstar pilots.
Equally I enjoy the balanced view genex offers.
I know that great divides can be conquered with good communication and effort from those on either side.
You may not be aware that the new JPA committee is committed to facilitating a ballot of the Jetstar pilots, on Union affiliation/representation. I understand both the AIPA and the AFAP have been invited to provide their input to that process.
That aside many pilots at Jetstar have enjoyed firsthand the ability to speak directly and openly to AJ, expressing their view on AWA's, the latest EBA, and many other issues, at venues organised by AJ to hear those views.
He may even earn your confidence. Who knows?
Keg, I've got to say, a great post.
Where i'm sitting, I see your frustrations. As a J* pilot, and paid up AIPA member, I hope sense will prevail and we achieve a unified group of people, proud of what we do.
Fearcampaign, i agree too. One thing I have to say is when J* techies are paxing whether its duty or staff travel and we ask for the jumpseat on Qantas, and get denied because the skipper has just viewed our ASIC and see the name on it, it makes for a wedge on our side sometimes.
Anyway, not wanting to thread drift here, but Alan is more than happy to chat with the troops at 'road shows' and always willing to put his company AMEX over the bar to buy us some beers etc. It may be a blow to some in QF that he's been appointed, but give him a go, you might all be suprised how approachable he is as a CEO.
Where i'm sitting, I see your frustrations. As a J* pilot, and paid up AIPA member, I hope sense will prevail and we achieve a unified group of people, proud of what we do.
Fearcampaign, i agree too. One thing I have to say is when J* techies are paxing whether its duty or staff travel and we ask for the jumpseat on Qantas, and get denied because the skipper has just viewed our ASIC and see the name on it, it makes for a wedge on our side sometimes.
Anyway, not wanting to thread drift here, but Alan is more than happy to chat with the troops at 'road shows' and always willing to put his company AMEX over the bar to buy us some beers etc. It may be a blow to some in QF that he's been appointed, but give him a go, you might all be suprised how approachable he is as a CEO.
Nunc est bibendum
Thanks for the vote of confidence all.
Turbtool. I guess we'll agree to disagree on that one. My observation is that the (former it would appear) JPC actively sought to keep AIPA away from any and all discussions regarding J*. As I said to both the QF Chief Pilot and Geoff Dixon at a meeting a number of years back, it's frustrating when long serving and loyal QF employees are treated in a second rate fashion compared to those who a few years before were working for the opposition or not even employed within the group.
Flava, glad that you see the usefulness of unity. AIPA isn't perfect (and none of us would attest that it is) but unity is a good thing.
Turbtool. I guess we'll agree to disagree on that one. My observation is that the (former it would appear) JPC actively sought to keep AIPA away from any and all discussions regarding J*. As I said to both the QF Chief Pilot and Geoff Dixon at a meeting a number of years back, it's frustrating when long serving and loyal QF employees are treated in a second rate fashion compared to those who a few years before were working for the opposition or not even employed within the group.
Flava, glad that you see the usefulness of unity. AIPA isn't perfect (and none of us would attest that it is) but unity is a good thing.
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Interetsing post Keg and some valid points.
However AIPA hs an agenda to cover QF pilots and not Jetstar. Try convincing the Jetstar pilots otherwise. There are a few cofused pilots in Jetstar land whom oddly enough are members of AIPA.
Had the EBA been voted down. There is no way they would get close to what they are getting now. If you call $200,000 a year for an A320 Cap woefull then I guess you are right about the EBA.
It would be nice to bring the 2 groups together. However not in this universe. It is in the pilots of QF's best interest to unite but certainly not in Jetstar pilots best interest.
Unfortunately AIPA missed the boat years ago. The Jetstar pilots certainly do not eed AIPA now.
However AIPA hs an agenda to cover QF pilots and not Jetstar. Try convincing the Jetstar pilots otherwise. There are a few cofused pilots in Jetstar land whom oddly enough are members of AIPA.
Had the EBA been voted down. There is no way they would get close to what they are getting now. If you call $200,000 a year for an A320 Cap woefull then I guess you are right about the EBA.
It would be nice to bring the 2 groups together. However not in this universe. It is in the pilots of QF's best interest to unite but certainly not in Jetstar pilots best interest.
Unfortunately AIPA missed the boat years ago. The Jetstar pilots certainly do not eed AIPA now.
I'm frustrated that QF keep being told how expensive we are as an airline when no one knows for sure how much assistance QF provided/provides J* both in start up and in an ongoing fashion.
I also loved in his last press conference how Dixon was 'suprised' that the QF premium product held up so well recently, and was the backbone of revenue. Yet Jetstar was suffering falling revenues.
Talk about thread drift!
Oh come on CTD777. $200k pa (which is not guaranteed) for a J* A320 skipper is hard yakka and is well above your base conditions. I fly with guys who had jet commands in their late 20s on low coin. So what, what are you going to do in 15years time on the same low pay? The jet command fades. So the end (dollars on payslip) justifies the means? How often do you get to see the kids? Do you work to live or live to work? Quality of life is the decider for some.
Unified collective representation is the only way to go. Remember no matter how ****ty the conditions are someone will always accept them as they may be better than their current situation of say living in the bush and refuelling out of drums or living in a desert and dreaming of Oz residency. They will always come so accept it and concentrate on what you can change.
I do agree AIPA have their agenda as do most unions. Just remember who AIPA represents. They can do what they want as long as it does not affect the 744 skippers.
Oh come on CTD777. $200k pa (which is not guaranteed) for a J* A320 skipper is hard yakka and is well above your base conditions. I fly with guys who had jet commands in their late 20s on low coin. So what, what are you going to do in 15years time on the same low pay? The jet command fades. So the end (dollars on payslip) justifies the means? How often do you get to see the kids? Do you work to live or live to work? Quality of life is the decider for some.
Unified collective representation is the only way to go. Remember no matter how ****ty the conditions are someone will always accept them as they may be better than their current situation of say living in the bush and refuelling out of drums or living in a desert and dreaming of Oz residency. They will always come so accept it and concentrate on what you can change.
I do agree AIPA have their agenda as do most unions. Just remember who AIPA represents. They can do what they want as long as it does not affect the 744 skippers.
Total Agreement
Keg, great articulate post! 
The sentiments you put so well are echoed in their own way throughout Qantas Engineering!
Harmony and unity are great assets yet to be realised by the bean counters!
If AJ can realise the capabilty and opportunities presented by an engaged workforce, the results will stun passengers, employees and shareholders alike!
If not heaven help us all.
The sentiments you put so well are echoed in their own way throughout Qantas Engineering!
Harmony and unity are great assets yet to be realised by the bean counters!
If AJ can realise the capabilty and opportunities presented by an engaged workforce, the results will stun passengers, employees and shareholders alike!
If not heaven help us all.
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Interesting posts, however, ShotNancy and ctd777, you are both way of the mark with your opinions about AIPA and its agenda.
Trust me when I say to you that AIPA is interested in unity and strength in numbers so that we may advance the cause of all QF group pilots.
Nothing more nothing less. You see fellas, we know that by protecting and improving your lot in life we preserve what we enjoy.
Everyones a winner.
The initiative though, must come from both sides of the fence.
Trust me when I say to you that AIPA is interested in unity and strength in numbers so that we may advance the cause of all QF group pilots.
Nothing more nothing less. You see fellas, we know that by protecting and improving your lot in life we preserve what we enjoy.
Everyones a winner.
The initiative though, must come from both sides of the fence.
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cabin crew have a minimum height requirement for safety reasons. maybe we could have the same apply to the CEO. at least we would have dodged FOG as well. will be interesting to see if the irishman has enough courage to try the inflight drinks and food, something FOG gave up for fear of what the hosties had done to it first.
30% of fuel is hedged, wonder if this cheaper fuel is shared between divisions? lots of ways to dodgy up the financial results between QF/J*.
J* cabin crew loathe the little fella, maybe something to do with a $5000 p/a pay cut for new employees without consultation with the union. when base pay was $38500 and now starts at $33500 he is not into buying popularity
30% of fuel is hedged, wonder if this cheaper fuel is shared between divisions? lots of ways to dodgy up the financial results between QF/J*.
J* cabin crew loathe the little fella, maybe something to do with a $5000 p/a pay cut for new employees without consultation with the union. when base pay was $38500 and now starts at $33500 he is not into buying popularity
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And maybe Prune should have a minimum IQ level for posters Inamiddle....
I guess AJ wishes he was tall. Maybe his mum does too. Maybe his tailor. Maybe he should have red hair and come from Fiji instead. What the heck....except to show your bias and arrogance....does this all have to do with the future of Qantas?
And Tenretni......
"Trust me when I say to you that AIPA is interested in unity and strength in numbers so that we may advance the cause of all QF group pilots.
Nothing more nothing less. You see fellas, we know that by protecting and improving your lot in life we preserve what we enjoy"
Amazing. Truly amazing. I am actually stunned. Is this a guarantee that AIPA will work to lift the T & C of every JQ pilot while preserving the right of all JQ pilots to fly the 787 in order of JQ seniority as they would have if there'd been no AIPA? However many 787s Jetstar gets?
Are there steak knives too?
Sorry...didn't mean to be frivolous. It's just so good to see AIPA's official (and may I say selfless though extremely patronizing position) finally published "No Jetstar pilot will live in poverty...".
Will....and here I cut to the chase....will AIPA take actual industrial action to change the JQ EBA to ensure this?
Or....will AIPA actually support the new CEO of the whole Qantas Group (of which AIPA pilots represent less than 7% of the employees)?
I guess AJ wishes he was tall. Maybe his mum does too. Maybe his tailor. Maybe he should have red hair and come from Fiji instead. What the heck....except to show your bias and arrogance....does this all have to do with the future of Qantas?
And Tenretni......
"Trust me when I say to you that AIPA is interested in unity and strength in numbers so that we may advance the cause of all QF group pilots.
Nothing more nothing less. You see fellas, we know that by protecting and improving your lot in life we preserve what we enjoy"
Amazing. Truly amazing. I am actually stunned. Is this a guarantee that AIPA will work to lift the T & C of every JQ pilot while preserving the right of all JQ pilots to fly the 787 in order of JQ seniority as they would have if there'd been no AIPA? However many 787s Jetstar gets?
Are there steak knives too?
Sorry...didn't mean to be frivolous. It's just so good to see AIPA's official (and may I say selfless though extremely patronizing position) finally published "No Jetstar pilot will live in poverty...".
Will....and here I cut to the chase....will AIPA take actual industrial action to change the JQ EBA to ensure this?
Or....will AIPA actually support the new CEO of the whole Qantas Group (of which AIPA pilots represent less than 7% of the employees)?
Nunc est bibendum
Sad....distortions and lies again.
It's getting a little tired genex but let me once again put forward the QF pilot position. It's a position that is virtually identical to AIPAs. I note that you conveniently ignored this from my previous but I shouldn't be surprised as you tend to ignore my posts when I've shone the spotlight onto your distortions and game playing.
For the umpteenth time, J* pilots get first crack at their own aircraft as per their seniority. QF pilots getting the opportunity to fly J* aircraft do so either with the 'protected' seniority number which already exist and continue to accrue at 7:20 of new hires or follow underneath the J* crew. For the record, the protected J* numbers in QF are now eligible to be F/Os. In a couple of years time they'd be senior enough for 737 captain slots.
Membership of AIPA and representation of J* pilots means that we'd be working together for the future benefit of both pilot groups- something it appears that you are against.
You come across as a pretty smart guy and you're forever telling us how dumb we pilots are and conversely how slick you are and so therefore you should know that this is illegal under current legislation with heavy penalties. Therefore your comments here are one of two things. They are either completely uninformed and ignorant or they're posted specifically to obfuscate and distort the truth. Choice is yours.
AIPA and many QF crew have stated many times that we want a strong group moving forward. This hasn't changed. Will you support the new CEO of the QF Group if he kills J* international?
Is this a guarantee that AIPA will work to lift the T & C of every JQ pilot while preserving the right of all JQ pilots to fly the 787 in order of JQ seniority as they would have if there'd been no AIPA? However many 787s Jetstar gets?
Membership of AIPA and representation of J* pilots means that we'd be working together for the future benefit of both pilot groups- something it appears that you are against.
...will AIPA take actual industrial action to change the JQ EBA to ensure this?
...will AIPA actually support the new CEO of the whole Qantas Group (of which AIPA pilots represent less than 7% of the employees)?
What a joke.
The nerd couldn't even make it as a pilot now hes CEO who's going to kill the company even more.
The nerd couldn't even make it as a pilot now hes CEO who's going to kill the company even more.
Since when does being a pilot mean you have the answers to everything?
What a ridiculous comment. Do you know why he failed? Could have been a physiological problem? You don't know and it is IRRELEVANT to running an airline. He will be in charge of maintenance, flight attendants, catering, transport etc. By your logic, he should be a chef, an engineer, cabin crew, and a bus/car/truck driver. He is a manager who has experience in the field. There is more to an airline than the pilots, dude!
Unfortunately AIPA also stated some nasty things in the Senate about the quality of J* and its pilots which got under the skin of its CEO. I'm not sure that it will be a simple case of let bygones be bygones. I think that all the pilots in J* who would be eligible for a protected number in QF are now all Captains so the MOU really does not have much appeal for anyone wanting to go to QF from J*. There is also the issue about funding the training. Why would you fork out money for an F/O spot when you are already in the LHS? The pay for your rating worked both ways.
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Originally Posted by PilotDude
The nerd couldn't even make it as a pilot now hes CEO who's going to kill the company even more.
Should the CEO of BHP be a successful pourer of molten metal? A successful miner?
Should the CEO of Holden be an expert assembler of cars?
Should the CEO of Fosters Group be a master brewer?
Should the CEO of RailCorp be an expert train driver?
If you answer yes to any of the above then you should not be a manager in any company.
Last edited by ElPerro; 5th Aug 2008 at 08:53. Reason: Incorrect quote attribution fixed!