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'Renegade' controllers leave pilots flying blind: air chief

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'Renegade' controllers leave pilots flying blind: air chief

Old 10th Aug 2008, 23:09
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Super G: Regards your post on the previous page, AsA have recruited a few foreign controllers (half of whom have left - now there's another story) of late using the 457 Visa method. If they now start hiring Aussies, I think the whole argument about not having enough Aussies to do the job would go out the window. Their use of the 457 Visa would then come under scrutiny. Maybe that is why you haven't had the 'call-up'?

SC.
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Old 10th Aug 2008, 23:28
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Super G: Regards your post on the previous page, AsA have recruited a few foreign controllers (half of whom have left - now there's another story) of late using the 457 Visa method. If they now start hiring Aussies, I think the whole argument about not having enough Aussies to do the job would go out the window. Their use of the 457 Visa would then come under scrutiny. Maybe that is why you haven't had the 'call-up'?

SC.
Huh?

ASA didn't get as many applications for the OS recruiting scheme as they originally thought and have now shelved the idea because they weren't prepared to pay enough to attract quality people.

They thought that there would be enough willing to sacrifice decent wages to come and work for "The world's leading ANSP"

The Sydney tower alone has lost four controllers through resignation or retirement in the past two weeks.
Melbourne Centre is about to lose at least three controllers in the next 7 weeks, possibly more as the Irish are now offering jobs and they have a lot of Aussies in their sights.

Me included!

West ATC is about to become Irish ATC but not in the West of Ireland.
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Old 11th Aug 2008, 00:33
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I think the whole argument about not having enough Aussies to do the job would go out the window. Their use of the 457 Visa would then come under scrutiny.
They are not 'sponsoring' people anymore; because rumour has it, Australians rejected from the recruitment processes, made themselves aware to the politicians who asked the right questions.

Why are Australians (with ATC licences) being rejected whilst we are simultaneously recruiting non Australians.
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Old 11th Aug 2008, 00:45
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In the days when we had to put in hour sheets in the 80s (the old form 1964), good people still went 'out the back' and took a paycut because they were committed. If they didn't do the shiftwork they didn't get the penalties.
It wasn't 'fair' to them and a composite salary was brought in, so those who were doing procedures,etc weren't financially disadvantaged.
This led to the rise of some people empire building away from traffic.
There are still good people not working traffic and doing office work.

What has happened was that the back office pay was aligned with operational, shiftworking ATC wages. They have now gone from the point where people doing back office work got less, to where they got parity, to now they are getting a 30-100% premium to those working traffic on a 24/7 roster.

It is these people who will be the arbiters of what is reasonable when you are asked to attend for work on your ROSTERED DAY OFF. I think a $165-200thousand package to not work 24/7 and to not move traffic is an exorbitant pay package to foist on the airlines, especially when we now don't have enough warm bodies to keep airspace open.
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Old 11th Aug 2008, 01:16
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mmmmmmm...........interesting theory about that 457 visa business SC!

As I have permanent residency in two foreign (ie non Australian) countries maybe I should have applied under the 457 conditions!
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Old 11th Aug 2008, 01:59
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Oops. Dont want too many facts getting out, do we?
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Old 11th Aug 2008, 03:35
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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G'Day Max1,

Ref the 'Composite Salary'...I think you might find that, as I recall, the composite salary was introduced by the then spin doctors as being the panacea for those who were sick on weekends to not have to attend work just to receive the then penalty rates, which MAY in some cases compromise safety, and also to avoid passing on their flu or whatever to the rest of the crew....

AsA would introduce the composite salary so that the 'penalties' would be included in your 'ordinary salary', so that the above would not occur at no cost to the employee.......So Good So Far...we all thought...but what was the catch?? ('They' don't do nuthin without a benefit to 'them'...)

So the 'Composite' 30% or so was introduced, and accepted by the staff, and, the catch was....

AsA got rid of all of the Regional Pay Staff clerks!!

Nobody saw THAT coming!

Some 16 or so staff in WA Region Pay Office got the chop!

Similarly, other regions ditto, I would imagine.

All pay calculations were subsequently transferred to the ONE Pay Office in ML, whose computors could quite easily handle the same composite salary being paid to all staff across OZ, with the late inclusion of O/T and E/D, being entered into the system by your own local 'Staff Clerk' - usually your CA3 in the front office.

Huge staff savings, and the beginning of the 'Big Redundo Program'....which continues to this day.........

The 'Spin Offs' that you mention, were I believe, just that! As far as I am aware, there was no 'intent' to make the 'manager's pay' better - although I have little doubt that this MAY have been stated to the managers to get their votes....

The Big 'Downside' to AsA? They seem to have failed to realise at the time, that the offshoot was that there was only ONE SALARY figure for each 'grade' of staff, and THAT salary now became the "Salary For Super" purposes. But, it was now too late to change.

This meant that the redundo packages were now calculated on the new salary rate, i.e. we all got an immediate increase of around 30% on our 'Final Salaries'....multiplied by the various factors of years of service etc...

"THANKYOU VERY MUCH" was all most of us could say!!!

Anyhow, sorry for the slight thread drift - but I did think that the 'Composite' concept needed to be 'sorted'.......

Cheers
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Old 11th Aug 2008, 10:51
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Griffo,
Thanks for the implications on a personal level, going back a wee bit further I believe it was ATC (rightly or wrongly) that brought in the 17% leave loading whilst on holidays.
That is when we went on leave we lost the shift penalties because we weren't working shifts. It was argued that we actually took a paycut when we had holidays and our pay was less than when we were actually at work. The IRC of the time agreed and gave us a 17% leave loading, in the days of rabid unionism others dived on board, and it ended up that most ended up with it, even if they didn't work shift work. Go figure?

As far as I was concerned it had nothing to do with sick leave, but all to do with looking after experienced, committed people who were taking a paycut to do what people who are now getting grossly inflated wages are doing.
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Old 11th Aug 2008, 11:36
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Max 1,

From my recollection 90% of your 'experienced, committed people' were not such.
Some of the reasons that they were in the off-line jobs were

(a) They wanted to get off shift work
(b) They wanted to get off control duties
(c) They were interested in 'techo' or procedural stuff
(d) They wanted to 'manage' and wield power
(e) They were drafted
(f) They were marginal, if not dangerous, in the field.
(g) They were medically unfit to exercise a licence.

Note that I said 90% - there were a few good ones

The composite salary was introduced to widen the pool and hopefully entice some of the 'experienced, committed' and competent people out of the field and into the office.
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Old 11th Aug 2008, 11:52
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40 years,
Jeez your harsh, but I'm not going to quibble.I've only got 25 years.

Cheers Max1
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 01:42
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little thread dift there folks

from www.crikey.com.au

Rationing the skies

Ben Sandilands writes:
Source: Crikey.com.au (11 August 2008)
So much for "renegade" air traffic controllers causing chaos in the skies.

On Friday at its Melbourne centre AirServices Australia offered ATC officers three hours extra pay per shift at "additional duty" rates just to be rostered in advance as on-call replacements for anyone who reports absent for work, mainly during evenings or over weekends.

In recent days the chief executive officer of AirServices Australia, Greg Russell, has been blaming ‘renegades’ for calling in sick to add pressure to pay negotiations.

Civil Air, the union, has maintained the real problem is Russell’s incompetence in recruiting and training staff during a period of high attrition due to retirements or better job opportunities abroad.

An official summary of that collective negotiation meeting is here for those who want to study a management trying to buy its way out of a human resources crisis of its own making.

At the same time AirServices was forced to agree to CASA demands for a rationing of controlled air space by a procedure for declaring "temporarily restricted areas" when there are insufficient controllers available to man the radar consoles responsible for the safe separation of aircraft between or near major Australian cities.

Under the current stop gap measures both AirServices and CASA had tried to maintain the fiction that international, domestic and private aircraft could be safely left to control their own ‘separation’ in a free-for-all situation that led to angry protests from the airlines.

That fiction is now over, after CASA officers saw first hand how risky the process was, and Qantas, Virgin Blue and the International Civil Aviation Organisation went public with their concerns.

If some tricky details can be ironed out airliners approaching zones where AirServices can’t provide service will have to apply for permission to enter, meaning rationing can be enforced to keep jets very far apart.

The "tricky" part is international air space. Australia has the responsibility to control large areas of Oceanic airspace. Jets that are mid way along very long flights to Australia cannot be denied access to "temporarily" restricted zones without compromising the compulsory fuel reserves they carry for bad weather diversions at their arrival point.

A spokesman for CASA said a starting time for the new ‘temporary’ arrangements cannot be announced unless this problem is overcome.
These two developments should be a wake up call to Treasury if not Infrastructure. AirServices is a substantial profit centre for government.
Now it is proposing money for nothing for staff just to be available for duty, and being compelled to further reduce its air traffic revenues by diverting, or denying access to, the airliners that are its customers.

And in case you missed the embedded link to the official summary (or the crikey site is slow) it contains this little proposal in relation to "reasonable overtime":

1. There is an obligation on air traffic controllers to perform reasonable overtime where operational requirements make it necessary.

2. That obligation entails an expectation that ATCs will be contactable by telephone and if calls are missed, to call back promptly after the call from Airservices has been received. An ATC should only remain uncontactable or unable to respond promptly where there are special reasons for this being so.

3. Subject to paragraphs 4 and 5, ATCs will agree to work an additional shift or hours when requested to do so.

4. If the ATC has already worked an average of one or more additional hours shift per fortnight in the 30 day period preceding the request or no less than an average of 7 additional hours per fortnight in the 30 day period preceding the request, they shall be entitled to decline the request.

5. Further, Airservices will not require an ATC to perform an additional shift or additional hours if Airservices is satisfied that there are substantial and compelling reasons which make it reasonable for them not to be required to do so.

6. If an ATC does not agree to a request to work an additional shift and neither of the conditions mentioned in paragraphs 4 or 5 exist, Airservices shall be entitled to take appropriate disciplinary action in relation to their conduct.


So effectively, they want me to be on call, always contactable, and presumably not travel too great a distance away from work on my supposed days off.

And if I have the temerity to refuse to do an overtime shift, and they don't like my reason for not doing so (eg: " I just want a day off") , they want to be able to PUNISH ME.

how's that for work/life balance?
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 03:15
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948


Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 09:38
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How can this be legal?
Beats me.

But apparently, AsA would like us to "sign off" on this proposed "memorandum of understanding" BEFORE the EBA expires in December.

If we are "only 17 controllers short" as per TFN, why do we need a policy of forced overtime?
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 09:51
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I have read this thread with some interest and have only one question to ask - is anybody accountable?
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 10:22
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Only an insane person or group of people would 'sign off' on anything at all when currently within a period of negotiating pay and conditions. Everything comes at a price - this proposal should come at an extremely high price for Airservices, not an insulting 3 hours of overtime.

The accountability question is spot on. It is just layer after layer after layer of buck passing, lying, denial and outright incompetence within Airservices management.

As a 'company', Airservices international reputation is rapidly being destroyed by their own stupidity. I think it is called unconscious incompetence - correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 10:31
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Hey controllers, good luck in your upcoming battle.

This O/T clause amazes me and for your own sake do not agree to it. More importantly do not under any circumstance sign away your ability to withdraw your additional time in a MOU just prior to your agreement expiring.

The LAME dispute with Qantas was successful because of our withdrawal of labour in the name of overtime. ASA relies on it and you own it.

good luck
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 10:39
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Nope, they try it on and in the process, coerce and intimidate staff into signing documents that absolve (or attempt to absolve) them from responsibility... if you sign, they get what they want but the staff member has no recourse to legal action because they have been forced to sign a document that removes any liability from management.

In the 80's, in my first year of employment with the organisation, as a Flight Data Officer, the Industrial Officer (company, not Union) for the region drafted a letter in which I would agree to the removal all of my individual rights to Union representation. I was ordered to attend the unit Manager's office in which the Acting Manager, seeking to force an amendment to my conditions of work, presented the letter to me and told me to sign it (later denied in a higher Manager's office). I refused and was then told "right, your suspended until we decide what we're going to do with you."

I sought assistance from the controllers, who immediately contacted the Civilair President, who contacted the GM, who removed the Acting Manager. I was then ordered to attend the Regional Manager's office who stated "I don't like being told by Canberra how to run my Region".

Ahhh... the good old days... except, almost two decades later, in my last year of employment, an Air Traffic Control Line Manager, attempted to coerce a controller into signing a document by threatening to suspend his license if he didn't agree... then removed the second page of a three page document that he had signed and replaced it with an amended page which was then represented to a third party as a true and correct document as signed by the controller.

Nothing has changed.
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 12:31
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So, who's accountable (I've asked this before) for the situation you are now in?

To me it's fairly bloody obvious - suits.
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 12:39
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The outworkers.

40 Years.

I think you are right on the reasons but perhaps a little harsh on the percentages. There were some very good and highly capable people in that group who, through circumstances often beyond their control, may have otherwise been forced out of a job but were looked after by the management and they continued to make a significant contribution to the organisation. In more recent years that sort of charity on the part of management disappeared and the staff ceased to be people and became just numbers which had to be reduced.

I shake my head when I read some of the postings on the recent happenings in AsA. It's a bit sad really. There was a time it was a great place to work. When I talk to former colleagues they all refer to working in ATC in the 70's as 'fun'. The fun seems to have gone out of it.
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 12:51
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V91, max1,

OK, perhaps I was a bit harsh, but I was trying to dispel the aura that all the off-line people in the past were knights.

I agree that the Airservices and its predecessors of the past and their culture are gone, and I trace this directly to the arrival of TFN.

It used to be said that, if you were in trouble then AsA was the employer to have. There are many examples of ... (I will use the word 'cripples' but not in the literal sense - perhaps people who had been wounded in one way or another) who were given great (and expensive) support to remain usefully working, and who were given a sense of being valued.

Sadly, no more!
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