'Renegade' controllers leave pilots flying blind: air chief

[dartman2]

I think the only mistake the controllers are making is not using the media to full advantage to highlight their concerns on manning/pay/and any other issues they feel are important. They need to public onside to add to the political pressure.

[max1]

To be fair to Greg Russell, (not that the favour is ever returned) he has only been there 3 years. However he was told from day one by the controllers that the biggest issue facing ATC was the staffing, and that the demographics showed that it was only going to get much worse fairly quickly.

Greg and his aviation Bureaucrats have continued to trade on ATCs pride in keeping airspace open to avoid hiring more staff. This had been going on for years before he got here and he has seriously misjudged ATCs patience to put up with it for ever.

The College does not have even close to the ability to train the numbers they are talking about. The College was streamlined (gutted) 2 years ago and is struggling to ramp up again.
Press releases, put about by highly paid spin doctors, tout figures of 95 and 100 trainees for this year and next year, as of now there is not even a training programme to put them on consoles. We are 7 months into a supposed 2 year training programme and there is no programme.

Dartman2, the media don't care, stories like 'Renegade controllers' are ASA spin given to reporter mates to turn the blame for this fiasco on the controllers. Who have been working 10 days on 1 day off, 60+ additional duties a year, extra shift 8 hour break extra shift 8 hour break extra shift, on top of their rostered shift just to stop it being worse.
We then see stories like this and wonder why on our days off, we come in, and miss our kids plays, footy matches, birthdays, etc etc.

Brett Godfrey from Virgin said the airlines overstaff by 10-12% so this situation doesn't occur, not our lot. They understaff by 10 % then cajole and co-erce, using the equivalent of the fleet manager to ring up people who have said No to try to harass them to come into work.

All the talk at work is ' Who is going where'. Germany are flying people over for interviews, Ireland are doing phone interviews with us for the next three weeks, Approach and Tower controllers have jobs lined up in the Middle East.

There has been no ongoing Simulator refresher or emergency training for at least three years, it is multiple choice Computer Based Training done on your breaks by yourself.
The new model they want to implement wants split shifts,no restraints on rostering, an obligation to work O/T ( the examples I cited above will not be one-offs but able to be rostered) one size fits all multiple endorsements that are a bit like, today you're flying a 737 tomorrow you're flying a 747, and next week its 777. They're all planes, you're rated to fly, so get on with it.The idea of this is to get greater coverage to alleviate the 'minor' staff shortages we have.

We look at what is on offer O/S, and they wonder why we are leaving. Some are just planning to get out and do something that doesn't involve shiftwork and putting up with this lot, and others are bringing retirement dates forward.

ASA has stated in the last year that there isn't a staffing problem, that there is a staffing problem but it is only small,that there is not a reliance on excessive overtime, that there is a reliance on excessive overtime, that there is a staffing problem and it will be fixed by July 08, that there is a looming large staffing problem but that they are recruiting big time to fix it, that there is a large staffing problem and it will get worse before it gets better, and the latest, that there is a staffing problem and it will be fixed in a month.I'm waiting for it to be called the staff shortage (recession) that we had to have.

Time will tell, and I know where I'd put my money.

[SM4 Pirate]

Following on from Max1's excellent post.

The Global Market must rule.

Germany is offering the same money with higher cost of living, but people are still considering going, to escape and for better 'conditions'.

Ireland is offering $40K-$50K AUD more, with a slightly higher cost of living, but significantly better working conditions.

The Middle East is taking Aussies in droves. The Money is significantly higher, sometimes double. Living conditions and expenses are obvious but at the end of the day you will make more money there and you get to escape. Watch out for the next big Recruiting campaign to gut Australia's ranks. Dubai World Central (Jebel Ali) will generate 200+ Controller jobs; and more than likely more money too; not just approach and tower jobs in Dubai but the sector jobs in Abu Dhabi, Muscat, Bahrain etc to feed the new beast.

Just when you think things can't get worse, the CEO slaps you down again.

This Renegade has now decided that 20 OT shifts in the last 12 months is more than enough. I'm now seeking employment elsewhere.

I believe that ASA has no concept of fixing the staffing numbers; it's not about recruiting more; it's about reducing the requirement.

They have approached the negotiations without anything to offer, but have put on the table "worse working conditions" that "enhance their flexibility". Otherwise known as reduced conditions of employment. Split shifts are high on their agenda, to reduce the total requirement, it's not employing more staff than this 'planned reduced requirement' needs.

I assume the controllers will not give up these conditions without a significant fight also assuming that the offer to offset the reduced conditions of employment will not be enough, if anything of substance at all.

[BeGoneTFN]

Police Academy (sorry that should be ASA Academy)

Max1,

Would it surprise you to know that TFN and his nut case managers have installed a former NAB manager as the training manager for the entire organisation, obviously this person has no clue about ATC and is apparently not that interested to learn.

It gets better, apparently this person has seconded up to five others from the NAB as (get this) ATC training specialists, and you guessed it not a schmick of an idea.

This individual is also of the impression that ATC's are not required to deliver the training syllabus as this can be done by trainers or teachers. One wonders what they will do should god forbid one of the trainees ask a question.

Dare I say it but TFN's cunning plan to completely F**K ASA is nearly complete, give it another 6 months and we'll be lucky if we get any trainees into the field.

This used to be an organisation I was pround to be apart of, all I'm proud of now is our ability as air traffic controllers to provide an ongoing service despite the very, very poor performance of senior management. The frightening thing is that the misinformed minister tends to believe the cowards running the place.

Despite your continuing crap Greg, I will be enjoying my well earned days off all the more since your disgraceful behaviour, you are not a managers A Hole.

BgTFN

[BN APP 125.6]

My prediction for the next chapter.

ICAO & Airline pressure force Airservices to close Airspace on a scheduled basis due safety concerns over the incidents you havent heard about yet.

Airservices blame this on 'renegade' controllers, but cannot identify them, and will not answer questions when pushed by an irritated media what they are doing to manage these staff.

More controllers leave, and less are inclined to go the extra mile anymore.

Airservices refuse to negotiate an attractive contract when it comes up for renewal in December. Pissed off controllers withdraw their overtime to start with over the New Year period.

Even more closures.

Airservices blame controllers - "It was theire plan all along"

Government finally tells them to act, and stops taking sides with management.

CEO resigns.

New CEO arrives promising to 'restructure", 'Worlds Best practice', etc. etc.

Airspace still is closed.

There are no controllers left to blame anymore.

[SM4 Pirate]

BN APP 125.6,

You are forgetting the option of 'closing down' non essential services and concentrating ALM (contract) resources on providing the core, in contingency mode; during the ATC lock out. The lock out is backed by the government to crush that "trumped up pissy little union"; at the same time withdrawing their 'overly generous supa scheme'.

The ATCs stand strong for about 10 days, good footage of pickets and baby's on the line, then they stab each other in the back to get a pay packet back; with less money in it and worse working conditions.

Those with morals choose to leave and a list is made, like the infamous 1989 list. Industry takes 3 years to recover 'non core services'; which is about right in the downturn swing.

Joe Public sides with the government because the controllers action disrupts their plans to get to holidays, weddings, funerals, meetings etc.

The CEO goes shortly after the lock out is over, praised for overseeing the storm that was with a huge bonus and glowing reference for having the guts to do it; moves into consultancy work or gets a plumb airline job.

The new CEO, with Eurocontrol, UK or FAA background comes in to bring the system up to speed with a modern approach to the job with modern work practices.

100 at 100 into 70 at 70... Hold your breath, it might just happen.

[max1]

SM4 Pirate

Sounds like you've been having a red wine moment. My position is, when they REALLY do something to resolve the situation that they have put us and them into, I will be willing to forego my days off to help alleviate the problem.

At the moment they aren't even trying, they have embarked on another restructure and trying to develop a model that they have bugger all idea how to implement. They are big on words like vision, worlds best, delivering the future yet have no idea and no plan to get there. Greg Russell came in and as you would expect was overwhelmed by people who were immediately trying to impress him, unfortunately for the Aviation industry, us and him, he picked the wrong horses.

The first thing they should have done when PC had his epiphany (Service Delivery Environment,SDE) is sit down and work out a long term plan to work out what staffing and resources were required to get there. I was involved when the vision was first being dripfed from the top,we were saying then that we don't have the bowwave numbers to get there, we could get a third of the way there but we don't have the numbers to work the consoles now, let alone release people to retrain.

At the same time ASA saw fit to create another level of management, the ATS Line Managers (ALMs), they chose to offer grossly inflated salary packages to entice people onto AWAs. They lost another 100+ controllers off the rosters, and didn't get the best people because alot were worried about being in a safety critical environment and the conflict of interest of between paypacket tenure against unbiased decision making.

SM4, why would ASA or the government close it down?
I am genuinely hoping that the Aviation Bureaucrats will pull their heads out of their arse and get back to our core responsibility of staffing and delivering a first world ATC system. They can still bring in their SDE model, it has some good points that will be good for the airlines, but they have to deliver it with the resources that THEY have left themselves with.Fail to plan, plan to fail.

I am hoping that the Egos at the top wake up to themselves, put the ALMs who can actually separate aircraft back on the roster, give the ones who can't 'opportunities to pursue other interests', offer a realistic training wage to ATC aspirants, resource the College properly, have a clean out of those overpaid newbies at upper level whose only skills seem to be whizzbang powerpoint presentations and weasel words and get back to delivering to the airlines and public the service that they are PAYING for.

In the words of JH (the new GM ATC),we have been over promising and under delivering to our customers. Give the airlines free flight and RNP like we've been promising for years, we can do it relatively quickly but it hasn't been a priority. It should be.

SM4, what you are saying is way,way down the track, personally, if it gets to that stage I won't be here anyway.

[BN APP 125.6]

Yes - and dont forget the NOC!

[ElPerro]

There were only seven incidents in which control of air space sectors had been interrupted in the 22 months between January 2006 and October 2007, rising to a whopping 135 in the eight months since, he said.

How many controllers (on average) where on the payroll between Jan 06 and Oct 07.

How many controllers (on average) are currently on the payroll?

Do the number of controllers lost relate directly to the increase in incidents?

That should give an indication as to whether the increase is due to the number of ATC guys/girls or due to unofficial industrial action.

[Bill Woodfull]

How many controllers (on average) where on the payroll between Jan 06 and Oct 07.

How many controllers (on average) are currently on the payroll?

Are you talking tin pushing/talking on the radio controllers? Or googling/talking sh*t with no traffic endorsement controllers?

You'll find a large number of radio using/tin pushing types gave up that aspect of the job (and their traffic endorsements) in the 2nd half of 2007 when they signed their AWAs and became an extra tier of management (well we need more managers in Aussie Aviation)...add to that the retirements and new Aussies in Ireland, Germany and Dubai and lets say well over a 100 (not 18).

And our recruitment?


This is bouncing around my head all day...

When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
When you're gone, ooh I try, how can I carry on?
So when you're near me, darling can't you hear me S.O.S.

Stop it! Agghhhhhhhhhhh!

[ferris]

Elperro, your simplified view will result in a distortion of the truth, as it assumes that every controller during the period you mentioned continued doing the same duties. As explained by others- they didnt. AsA management attempted a restructure of duties, which they were understaffed to implement.
It's a huge problem in the world of ATC (or any safety critical service- big hint at NASA and what happened there) when you try and apply 'business principles' to the organisation. There has been a lot written already about what happens when you try (NASA). This doesnt seem to worry the decision makers, who continue to steer the same course.


Good luck with it all. It will take years to fix, and they haven't even started. Indeed, there doesnt seem to be any acknowlegement yet that they might've gotten it wrong. It'll all be better in a month, apparently

[Bill Woodfull]

It will take years to fix, and they haven't even started. Indeed, there doesnt seem to be any acknowlegement yet that they might've gotten it wrong.

Indeed. Critical Mass is rather imminent old chum. We already have Australia's standard of Central African [lack of] ATC on the BBC et al.

Now admitting one has 'f*cked up', that is the issue. ATCs MUST put their hands up and call out to their googling non-endorsed (how the did that situation happen?) managers when they think any breach or safety or separation occurs (unless the said manager just shuts the ATC in the airspace...thats fine, thats safe).

Will management put their hands up and admit to f*cking up?

Jackson has gone, Dixon has gone, TFN?

PS ElPerro, my unit has lost over 20% in 1 year and we haven't gone TIBA yet (people are still taking the overtime to keep it running).

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

ATCs MUST put their hands up and call out to their googling non-endorsed (how the did that situation happen?) managers when they think any breach or safety or separation occurs

Bill,
.
Sadly ... no ... frighteningly ..... we have done that already .... only to have the same paper shuffling/obfuscating manager/s .. embark on 'shoot the heretic' crusade/s
.
Where to from here????
.
I hope beyond all hope no-one is hurt (or worse) before this is fixed!

[Alien Role]

Tech crew should be very concerned that we are being controlled by operators who are working the hours that max1 states in #23.

[Vampire 91]

Controller shortage????

A controller shortage. Hang on! How come several Sydney controllers recently received VR. Who got that wrong? There was a part of Airservices known as People and Change. Are they still running the show? From what I hear from ATC staff the decisions, or lack of them, coming from that unit are fine examples of ineptitude and stupidity. It's sad that a good system which worked has been interfered with to the extent that the staff have become completley disillusioned. Back in the late 90s I think it was a UK consultancy firm had a good look at the ATC side of Airservices and identified virtually all of the issues which have subsequently come to pass. Streaming - that is allocating a controller to a particular stream, as in Tower, TMA, or en-route, for the rest of his or her career was identified as a bad move but Airservices persisted until it was demonstrated that no one liked it and it was detrimental to good operational practice. There were some significant issues which needed to be fixed but which were simply not addressed. Australian Aviation reports that in 2007 900 ATCs took 15,700 sick days, an average of about 17 days sick leave each. How many years has that level of sick leave been going on and what did Airservices do about it? The staffing problems of an ageing workforce are not something which has suddenly arisen. There will not be a quick fix to the current problems.

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

Alien .. those levels of 'additional hours' apply across all discipline's, including single person (solo) Approach/Tower environs
.
... I agree wholeheartedly with your sage warning!

[Bill Woodfull]

in 2007 900 ATCs took 15,700 sick days, an average of about 17 days sick leave each.

I took less than 8 sick days and did over 20 call ins. A lot of those sick days by peers are long term ones (hospitalisation etc).

How come several Sydney controllers recently received VR. Who got that wrong?

An IRC decision as part of a failed restructure - taking 100 controllers off line and see what happens. Some old supervisors and TLs weren't part of the the NEW ballgame according to selectors.

There was a part of Airservices known as People and Change. Are they still running the show? From what I hear from ATC staff the decisions, or lack of them, coming from that unit are fine examples of ineptitude and stupidity.

You said it sir!

It's sad that a good system which worked has been interfered with to the extent that the staff have become completley disillusioned.

But hey, we made $104M* in profit last year!!!

*Questions: We are a government enterprise; The govt has a a $17B budget surplus....why do we NEED to show a profit (as opposed to revenue neutral)? why does our executives have remuneration based on profit, cost savings, and slashing expenditure (the results are in!)? Is not safe air navigation provision expected in a western nation?

[No Further Requirements]

I volunteer my services as CEO for half the money the current CEO is on. There, I have just saved AsA some money. And I am sure I will give fixing this sinking ship a red hot go. You have 4 weeks to take me up on the offer - that's my resignation date.

Cheers,

NFR.

[Bill Woodfull]

What concerns me...

It took a fuselage integrity issue and a saved dive by some pro's on the flightdeck to maybe be the catlyst for GDs sayonara. What will it take for our skipper (another slash and burn and "profit* is my icon" type)?

Also, WTF is the Airservices board doing?

*sorry Mr Albanese, remind me why Airservices NEEDS such big profits again????

[BeGoneTFN]

people and change aka ASA HR

Vampire,

Hate to say it, but P+C went the same way as all the nice pot plants in the centres, actually come to think of it most of the resources you would expect to depend upon to run an organisation effectively went that way!

When human resources is a non priority, ie lets extort money without providing a service, it's expendable. HR was cut to nothing and centralised to CB, what message does that send, pretty obvious I would say!

If the airlines, management and pilots don't react shortly despite how they feel about ATC we might be in for a first, that is a first developed country unable to provide ATC in support of its aviation industry.

My prediction is Melbourne Airport will close first due no TMA followed closely by the TWR, with CB then SY not to far behind all due to the exodus from ASA as a consequence of sh*thouse management and no government support.

To all those in the media, ASA is a total mess, get both sides of the story before you publish. ATC's despite what management state are doing their very best given the circumstances they must endure, manufactured soley by the current management.

TFN your recent comments have seriously offended and disenfranchised those that actually wanted to do OT, the reaction on Saturday by the staff on site was significant.

To be frank you do not deserve to be our CEO, you are incompotent and do not act in a manner that demonstrates the best interests of your stakeholders. You are the biggest loser, Its time to GO.

GO, GO, GO. And take PC with you!

BgTFN