Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
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We have a Board????
Do any of them have a pulse????
Someone check to see if the machine that goes ping is still plugged in.
Do any of them have a pulse????
Someone check to see if the machine that goes ping is still plugged in.
5miles... a Board there is... a Board that stacked the sandbags high in 2004...
In 2006–07, Airservices Australia held a directors and officers liability insurance policy. It is a condition of this policy that the nature of the liability indemnified, the limits of liability and the premium payable not be disclosed to third parties except to the extent that:
On 25 June 2004, Airservices Australia gave an indemnity to present, past and future directors and officers of the corporation on certain terms and conditions in relation to claims arising in connection with them being a director or officer of Airservices Australia. This indemnity continues in force.
- Airservices Australia is required to do so by law or
- the insurer consents in writing to such disclosure
On 25 June 2004, Airservices Australia gave an indemnity to present, past and future directors and officers of the corporation on certain terms and conditions in relation to claims arising in connection with them being a director or officer of Airservices Australia. This indemnity continues in force.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Let's offer reasonable overtime
Here's a suggestion, when ASA call to interrupt your valuable time off, and you're tired/just had a beer/engaged in an otherwise unimportant task-say out paying bills to ensure continued supply of power..phone..etc,
say, "ok, I've just had that beer/I'm tired, but I'm prepared to come in and work, BUT because of the above, I'm afraid I'm only available to do non-operational duties."
In this case, you haven't refused reasonable overtime, but you have then complied with your legal obligation to work only when fit and able.
This being the case, there would then be a slight possibility that you may be unable to return to work operationally on your normally rostered shift due to being fatigued unnecessarily by working on your day(s) off.
Worth a thought,
Cheers WMF
say, "ok, I've just had that beer/I'm tired, but I'm prepared to come in and work, BUT because of the above, I'm afraid I'm only available to do non-operational duties."
In this case, you haven't refused reasonable overtime, but you have then complied with your legal obligation to work only when fit and able.
This being the case, there would then be a slight possibility that you may be unable to return to work operationally on your normally rostered shift due to being fatigued unnecessarily by working on your day(s) off.
Worth a thought,
Cheers WMF
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'CivilAirMember' based in Canberra. Posting inflammatory material on an internet site, when we know that ASA are using any straw in the AIRC to make out that there is some quasi industrial action.Mmmmm?
Do you work in the AWB? I would suggest you change your moniker. This has now been removed from YouTube by the poster, I didn't see it, but that moniker will not help the parties come to an agreement, and is not an official CivilAir position. Maybe change your moniker to Manager of ASA.
Patsies like Cameron Stewart, will leap on this and distort it. He has to be one of the laziest journos going around, takes whatever ASA give him and purports it to be the truth.
Cameron, if you are reading this, you are either being lazy in not checking or questioning the information ASA are feeding you, or the other scenario takes us down a much darker road.
Look at the BS printed about staff shortages in Melbourne.Controllers after 63% payrise and the like. He could be a whole episode of MediaWatch on his own.
Do you work in the AWB? I would suggest you change your moniker. This has now been removed from YouTube by the poster, I didn't see it, but that moniker will not help the parties come to an agreement, and is not an official CivilAir position. Maybe change your moniker to Manager of ASA.
Patsies like Cameron Stewart, will leap on this and distort it. He has to be one of the laziest journos going around, takes whatever ASA give him and purports it to be the truth.
Cameron, if you are reading this, you are either being lazy in not checking or questioning the information ASA are feeding you, or the other scenario takes us down a much darker road.
Look at the BS printed about staff shortages in Melbourne.Controllers after 63% payrise and the like. He could be a whole episode of MediaWatch on his own.
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You tube video
Posted at YouTube - CivilAirMember's Channel
"My posting of the previous video on this channel was a mistake. If any offence was taken by any individual, then I apologise, and respectfully ask that this be accepted.
The President of CivilAir was totally correct in contacting the CEO of Airservices and alerting him to the placing of this video.
As I wrote in the closing credits of the video, it was my opinion only, and represented in no way the opinions of CivilAir. The stupidity was wholly mine.
Sorry."
CivilAirMember
"My posting of the previous video on this channel was a mistake. If any offence was taken by any individual, then I apologise, and respectfully ask that this be accepted.
The President of CivilAir was totally correct in contacting the CEO of Airservices and alerting him to the placing of this video.
As I wrote in the closing credits of the video, it was my opinion only, and represented in no way the opinions of CivilAir. The stupidity was wholly mine.
Sorry."
CivilAirMember
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Skybound one, AsA will be looking for a whole lot of controllers - all types & ratings - if they continue with the push for substantial degradations of our existing terms & conditions in the forthcoming EBA.
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For those 'not ATC' reading here, I should point out some background on reasonable O/T.
We used to have 2 types of 'overtime'.
One was rostered O/T. It was on the roster when it came out, you could plan your life around this roster, you could also knock it back, but realised that someone else would have to cover. They would also put out a list of shifts that needed covering and controllers could put their hand up to cover these shifts. There are rosters with 30+ shifts to be covered in a month by @20 staff. This is the reality due to chronic staff mismanagement.
The second type was ED (Emergency Duty) this was short term callout,someone unavailable at short notice, thunderstorms imminent, someone is taken offline due incident, etc. Notice for these can be a few hours or 'when can you get here'.
Last EBA the 'Sultans of Spin' didn't like the phrase Emergency Duty and its connotations and lumped it all under the heading of Additional Duty (AD). This sounded so much better.
I believe some industries roster people to be on standby, it is part of the job and is built into the salary, people know they are on call and can adjust their lives accordingly. No alcohol, let family and friends know that they can attend functions but may be called away, etc. ASA can't because they have understaffed and expect controllers to cover.
We have provisions for 'grey days' but due to chronic staffing shortages and mismanagement over years they cannot be utilised.
ASA expect us to be on call 24/7 and to not have planned anything on our days off or have to have had a drink, family outing, spouse working, etc. Rostered O/T is easy. Short term callout (ED) all together different.
We are that short of controllers that we are worn out, the full time spin doctors in Canberra ( I believe Corporate Affairs now have 50 staff) would like the Minister and airlines to believe otherwise. In ASAs controller numbers they count people on long term sick leave, maternity leave, and leave without pay.
The spin from BS castle at the Alan Woods Building is reminiscent of US bankers and ratings agencies bundling up sub prime mortgages as AAA rated investment vehicles, and is having the same result.
The ASA Annual Report should have landed on the Ministers desk today, should make interesting reading when(?) it gets tabled in Parliament.
We used to have 2 types of 'overtime'.
One was rostered O/T. It was on the roster when it came out, you could plan your life around this roster, you could also knock it back, but realised that someone else would have to cover. They would also put out a list of shifts that needed covering and controllers could put their hand up to cover these shifts. There are rosters with 30+ shifts to be covered in a month by @20 staff. This is the reality due to chronic staff mismanagement.
The second type was ED (Emergency Duty) this was short term callout,someone unavailable at short notice, thunderstorms imminent, someone is taken offline due incident, etc. Notice for these can be a few hours or 'when can you get here'.
Last EBA the 'Sultans of Spin' didn't like the phrase Emergency Duty and its connotations and lumped it all under the heading of Additional Duty (AD). This sounded so much better.
I believe some industries roster people to be on standby, it is part of the job and is built into the salary, people know they are on call and can adjust their lives accordingly. No alcohol, let family and friends know that they can attend functions but may be called away, etc. ASA can't because they have understaffed and expect controllers to cover.
We have provisions for 'grey days' but due to chronic staffing shortages and mismanagement over years they cannot be utilised.
ASA expect us to be on call 24/7 and to not have planned anything on our days off or have to have had a drink, family outing, spouse working, etc. Rostered O/T is easy. Short term callout (ED) all together different.
We are that short of controllers that we are worn out, the full time spin doctors in Canberra ( I believe Corporate Affairs now have 50 staff) would like the Minister and airlines to believe otherwise. In ASAs controller numbers they count people on long term sick leave, maternity leave, and leave without pay.
The spin from BS castle at the Alan Woods Building is reminiscent of US bankers and ratings agencies bundling up sub prime mortgages as AAA rated investment vehicles, and is having the same result.
The ASA Annual Report should have landed on the Ministers desk today, should make interesting reading when(?) it gets tabled in Parliament.
Last edited by max1; 15th Oct 2008 at 07:53.
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On 25 June 2004, Airservices Australia gave an indemnity to present, past and future directors and officers of the corporation on certain terms and conditions in relation to claims arising in connection with them being a director or officer of Airservices Australia. This indemnity continues in force.
NB
Last edited by Nautilus Blue; 15th Oct 2008 at 08:57. Reason: speeling
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Reasonable Overtime
Does anyone believe that one extra shift a fortnight or nearly one whole extra month i.e 26 days a year constitutes a reasonable amount of overtime. Perhaps it should be renamed forced-time as we all can expect to be press ganged into compliance.
I appreciate that the current EBA doesn't clarify what reasonable o/t is exactly, however its one thing to state that this might be 1 shift every two weeks when the place is staffed properly. Its another proposition completely when the place is on the bones of its arse and you are expected to show one extra shift every two weeks for the next 5 years or until management finally gets sacked and some rebuilding takes place.
Perhaps this is what ASA are on about when they talk about staff turnover every 5 years, they will run you into the ground with overtime at which point you will be begging to get out.
This to me does not look to good in terms of work/life balance.
I am curious to know how much extra overtime the bean counters in the AWB are compelled to undertake.
I would also be interested to know if any other safety critical workplace would expect such an enormous amount of O/T undertaken on an involuntary basis?
BgTFN
I appreciate that the current EBA doesn't clarify what reasonable o/t is exactly, however its one thing to state that this might be 1 shift every two weeks when the place is staffed properly. Its another proposition completely when the place is on the bones of its arse and you are expected to show one extra shift every two weeks for the next 5 years or until management finally gets sacked and some rebuilding takes place.
Perhaps this is what ASA are on about when they talk about staff turnover every 5 years, they will run you into the ground with overtime at which point you will be begging to get out.
This to me does not look to good in terms of work/life balance.
I am curious to know how much extra overtime the bean counters in the AWB are compelled to undertake.
I would also be interested to know if any other safety critical workplace would expect such an enormous amount of O/T undertaken on an involuntary basis?
BgTFN
Last edited by BeGoneTFN; 15th Oct 2008 at 12:02. Reason: wanted to ramble on a bit more
NB:
Quote:
On 25 June 2004, Airservices Australia gave an indemnity to present, past and future directors and officers of the corporation on certain terms and conditions in relation to claims arising in connection with them being a director or officer of Airservices Australia. This indemnity continues in force.
Is this normal in other organisations? Can I please have indemnity insurance in case I'm incompetent/not paying attention/asleep at the wheel?
Yes it's normal practice - called Directors and Officers Indemnity Insurance. No sane person would ever become a Director or company officer (eg: Company Secretary, Finance Manager, CEO) without such insurance. It covers you against legal costs of being sued over actions you may have taken in good faith.
It doesn't protect you if it can be shown that you have been a lying weasel, either lying to your insurer (there is a requirement for complete disclosure of your circumstances) or lying to your fellow Officers or Directors or someone else.
Quote:
On 25 June 2004, Airservices Australia gave an indemnity to present, past and future directors and officers of the corporation on certain terms and conditions in relation to claims arising in connection with them being a director or officer of Airservices Australia. This indemnity continues in force.
Is this normal in other organisations? Can I please have indemnity insurance in case I'm incompetent/not paying attention/asleep at the wheel?
It doesn't protect you if it can be shown that you have been a lying weasel, either lying to your insurer (there is a requirement for complete disclosure of your circumstances) or lying to your fellow Officers or Directors or someone else.
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At least one of the ATC managers that had a direct hand in today's staffing problems has been shown the door.
It may be old news but the tall, deep voiced toe-cutter that decimated the ATC college, effectively creating ANSA'a inability to train enough controllers, and then went on to decimate AIS, has been cut lose from ANSA and is on the prowl for more poor unfortunates at Melbourne Airport.
It may be old news but the tall, deep voiced toe-cutter that decimated the ATC college, effectively creating ANSA'a inability to train enough controllers, and then went on to decimate AIS, has been cut lose from ANSA and is on the prowl for more poor unfortunates at Melbourne Airport.
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At least one of the ATC managers that had a direct hand in today's staffing problems has been shown the door.
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Airservices Australia slams 'covert industrial campaign'
The head of Airservices Australia has hit out at what he describes as unofficial work bans by air traffic controllers in Sydney.
A senate estimates hearing has been told air traffic controllers have an organised campaign where they refuse to fill shift vacancies caused by staff calling in sick.
Airservices Australia's Greg Russell says it has caused major air traffic delays around the country.
He has told the hearing a small number of controllers are conducting a covert industrial campaign.
"Our ability to maintain high service levels to the industry is being damaged by the actions of a small number of our air traffic controllers conducting unauthorised industrial action to support their wages claim," he said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/21/2397525.htm?section=justin
My thoughts:
Bit of a strange organisation (and I use the term “organisation” loosely) that can be held to ransom by such an allegedly small number of people.
P/Poor workforce planning since July 2005 perhaps????
I don’t know about wages claim… more like a claim that the rosters are beyond thread-bare.
I can only hope that the Airservices gurus who won a national project management award for the tower simulator can now turn their hands to recruitment and training.
Or is that asking tooo much.
The head of Airservices Australia has hit out at what he describes as unofficial work bans by air traffic controllers in Sydney.
A senate estimates hearing has been told air traffic controllers have an organised campaign where they refuse to fill shift vacancies caused by staff calling in sick.
Airservices Australia's Greg Russell says it has caused major air traffic delays around the country.
He has told the hearing a small number of controllers are conducting a covert industrial campaign.
"Our ability to maintain high service levels to the industry is being damaged by the actions of a small number of our air traffic controllers conducting unauthorised industrial action to support their wages claim," he said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/21/2397525.htm?section=justin
My thoughts:
Bit of a strange organisation (and I use the term “organisation” loosely) that can be held to ransom by such an allegedly small number of people.
P/Poor workforce planning since July 2005 perhaps????
I don’t know about wages claim… more like a claim that the rosters are beyond thread-bare.
I can only hope that the Airservices gurus who won a national project management award for the tower simulator can now turn their hands to recruitment and training.
Or is that asking tooo much.
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Looks like someones getting even more desperate, its actually a little boring now!
The alleged problem is not just in SY, its nation wide, its called "a CRITICAL staffing shortage" and was caused by only one person.
Be gone TFN, for the love of god be gone.
The alleged problem is not just in SY, its nation wide, its called "a CRITICAL staffing shortage" and was caused by only one person.
Be gone TFN, for the love of god be gone.
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I wrote the following in this thread (http://www.pprune.org/d-g-general-av...ntre-tiba.html) which has been moved, but thought it worth repeating here.
The staff shortage is always there, just not always visible to industry.
Civil Air (the air traffic controller's Association) maintains a log on their site of all NOTAMed TIBAs, tower closures, and delays due staff shortage (see Civil Air Australia - Home).
The NOTAMs indicate when there where none (TIBA), or not enough controllers (delays) to run the airspace or tower. When delays are NOTAMed, it can sometimes mean that there is only one controller on duty, and if they require a break (to go to the toilet for example) then they have to leave the console unmanned during a "short break procedure". The delay NOTAMs can also indicate that the controller you are speaking to is running more airspace than normally acceptable. What is not shown in NOTAMs is how many times controllers have come in on days off to cover the day to day operations.
The NOTAMs really only are the tip of the iceberg. Airspace/tower staffing is the last thing to give in the system, with resources being drained from other important areas to keep things running. The continued staff shortages mean that there are not enough ATC staff to do some of the other duties they perform away from the coal face. Training and procedures for example.
Training has particularly suffered. Indeed it was one of the first things to be cut when Greg Russell (current Airservices Australia CEO) arrived in 2005, in order to maximise profits.
No simulator refresher training has taken place for Inflight Emergencies or system failures for controllers in the last 2-3 years. There are controllers who have not done simulator refresher training in their career. Imagine if that was an airline pilot without that training.
Just saw this Notam seems yet another staff shortage.
Civil Air (the air traffic controller's Association) maintains a log on their site of all NOTAMed TIBAs, tower closures, and delays due staff shortage (see Civil Air Australia - Home).
The NOTAMs indicate when there where none (TIBA), or not enough controllers (delays) to run the airspace or tower. When delays are NOTAMed, it can sometimes mean that there is only one controller on duty, and if they require a break (to go to the toilet for example) then they have to leave the console unmanned during a "short break procedure". The delay NOTAMs can also indicate that the controller you are speaking to is running more airspace than normally acceptable. What is not shown in NOTAMs is how many times controllers have come in on days off to cover the day to day operations.
The NOTAMs really only are the tip of the iceberg. Airspace/tower staffing is the last thing to give in the system, with resources being drained from other important areas to keep things running. The continued staff shortages mean that there are not enough ATC staff to do some of the other duties they perform away from the coal face. Training and procedures for example.
Training has particularly suffered. Indeed it was one of the first things to be cut when Greg Russell (current Airservices Australia CEO) arrived in 2005, in order to maximise profits.
No simulator refresher training has taken place for Inflight Emergencies or system failures for controllers in the last 2-3 years. There are controllers who have not done simulator refresher training in their career. Imagine if that was an airline pilot without that training.
Last edited by Here to Help; 22nd Oct 2008 at 00:20.
