MERGED: Qantas Decompression ?
Congratulations on a job well done by the crew of QF30.
Its a pity that the dumb journalist's and other media muppets don't have to go under rigorous training every year to maintain their qualifications!
Watched three different news reports on Saturday night, not one got anything factually correct or near the truth. For example the Alohoa airlines accident that they all quoted happened in 1998, 1975 and 1999, and the aircraft involved was a B747, B727 and aging airliner. I thought 1988 was the year and a Boeing B737.
Another journalist quoted the pilot used instinct to descend the aircraft, another said the pilot contacted authorities and asked for advice. Yet another raised concerns about rust being the cause.
ABC had some British aviation expert quoting that it wasn't a terrorist attack, one must be a bloody expert if you can be in Britain and look at media footage and determine the cause!
Its a pity that the dumb journalist's and other media muppets don't have to go under rigorous training every year to maintain their qualifications!
Watched three different news reports on Saturday night, not one got anything factually correct or near the truth. For example the Alohoa airlines accident that they all quoted happened in 1998, 1975 and 1999, and the aircraft involved was a B747, B727 and aging airliner. I thought 1988 was the year and a Boeing B737.
Another journalist quoted the pilot used instinct to descend the aircraft, another said the pilot contacted authorities and asked for advice. Yet another raised concerns about rust being the cause.
ABC had some British aviation expert quoting that it wasn't a terrorist attack, one must be a bloody expert if you can be in Britain and look at media footage and determine the cause!
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I'd bet that management would buy a new aircraft and change regos and still say they had never had a hull loss. Wasn't the Bangkok incident a write off?
not designed to fail.. designed to work
Anyone know the website that's being quoted on SKY News ? The one where the engineer warns of corrosion and GD denies everything.
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shamed
Second guessing the three pilots decision to divert to manilla is an easy attack while pruners sit at their laptops(shame on you all). Also shame on all the so called lames and wanna be investigators with the trumped up theories of what went wrong. "Rustbucket headline" just about shows why everyone should keep their traps shut until the investigation is complete.
The only response to this INCIDENT,should be well done to the professional crew for doing what Qantas has trained them to do, and for handling the the situation.Well done to the slf for keeping cool.Maybe its about time we looked at the positives instead of bashing a brand.
The only response to this INCIDENT,should be well done to the professional crew for doing what Qantas has trained them to do, and for handling the the situation.Well done to the slf for keeping cool.Maybe its about time we looked at the positives instead of bashing a brand.
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Oxygen bottles maintenance
This is fact. Just last week someone noticed that an oxygen bottle about to be fitted to a 744 had been freighted in from Hong Kong. It raises the question if they are now being overhauled in Asia, not suggesting at all that there might be a quality issue.
Stoned P
Stoned P
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Here we go again ,Typical uneducated media idiots reporting on something they know nothing about.
I heard one reporter on Friday night state that a large hole had blown out of the undercarriage of the aircraft........
GIVE ME A BREAK you flogstick
I heard one reporter on Friday night state that a large hole had blown out of the undercarriage of the aircraft........
GIVE ME A BREAK you flogstick
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Oxygen bottle question ?
What do they make the Oxygen bottle's out of for the 747. I have no large jet experience but in smaller aircraft i have seen Steel, Aluminium even a composite type bottle. In any case i would guess these bottles are rated for many 100's of times more pressure then they are filled to. Just thinking of gas cylinders in general they are overengineered (that's why you don't see some ones bbq exploding ever weekend) Usually when you hear of some sort of trouble relating to a gas bottle some one has knocked it over or hit it or some such and the valve has sheared off. I could imagine something like this happening then it would blow of with some force and could puncher the skin with the valve. The corresponding fluid hammer of the explosive decompression would tear the skin to the tear strips (as designed) and that front faring would get blown of by the escaping air. But something serious would surely have to have happened to the bottle. It's not the movies. They don't just explode. I would suggest even if they had not been checked for 25 years and had corrosion all over them.
Sorry I rambled. What where the bottles made of ?
And what is the orientation of the bottle in the hold. (is the valve at the top is it on the wall lying down with the valve facing the rip in the skin. is there a collar around the valve is it steal)
What do they make the Oxygen bottle's out of for the 747. I have no large jet experience but in smaller aircraft i have seen Steel, Aluminium even a composite type bottle. In any case i would guess these bottles are rated for many 100's of times more pressure then they are filled to. Just thinking of gas cylinders in general they are overengineered (that's why you don't see some ones bbq exploding ever weekend) Usually when you hear of some sort of trouble relating to a gas bottle some one has knocked it over or hit it or some such and the valve has sheared off. I could imagine something like this happening then it would blow of with some force and could puncher the skin with the valve. The corresponding fluid hammer of the explosive decompression would tear the skin to the tear strips (as designed) and that front faring would get blown of by the escaping air. But something serious would surely have to have happened to the bottle. It's not the movies. They don't just explode. I would suggest even if they had not been checked for 25 years and had corrosion all over them.
Sorry I rambled. What where the bottles made of ?
And what is the orientation of the bottle in the hold. (is the valve at the top is it on the wall lying down with the valve facing the rip in the skin. is there a collar around the valve is it steal)
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When the incident occurred the aircraft was approx 300nm from MNL which was definitely the closest airport. I know that for a <fact> so no more speculation on this point pls. Aircraft was dumping fuel en route to MNL as you would expect, don't know what weight he landed at.
For info ILS 06 is still out of service but rwy 24 was in use at the time. MNL offered QF30 either rwy for landing as soon as they were in radio contact but don't know which one he actually used.
It was all handled very nicely by the crew
For info ILS 06 is still out of service but rwy 24 was in use at the time. MNL offered QF30 either rwy for landing as soon as they were in radio contact but don't know which one he actually used.
It was all handled very nicely by the crew
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Just been reading some of the MSN stories on this. 
They really master the art of whipping up the ignorant into a frenzy and keeping them there.
They really master the art of whipping up the ignorant into a frenzy and keeping them there.
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What where the bottles made of ?
The necks of the pax bottles in the cargo sidewall are pointing upwards (all in parallel). The threaded connections for the plumbing are at right angles to the neck.
Perhaps the newer bottles are more fragile.. or rather, certain types of damage may be less evident. There was this concern with the fuselage of the new 787.
I can't see how something(shifting) in the cargo could impact the bottles and damage them. There will be fore-aft movement forces on takeoff, and turns should be "co-ordinated" with forces down rather than sideways. Also, if I remember correctly, there is a step in the cargo sidewall which puts decent space between the cargo and the bottles.
If the reports about a missing bottle are true, then it either got sucked out or blew itself out by bouncing off something (or deflecting off its mounting frame).
The more theorys appear on this site, the more appear in the media. Is there such thing as real investigative journalism in Australia anymore? or just info-tainment with "expert aviation opinions" sourced from PPrune?
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1. From the videos it looks like the landing was on Rwy 06. Through the window you can see the international terminal, a couple of parked aircraft and also the single taxiway. So, yep, ILS 06 not available - another factor to deal with. If the weather was ok (looks like it was) then a visual approach is probably the go, as opposed to a VOR app. Perhaps this is where the media have come up with comments like "flew by instinct"?
2. Sounds like they didn't use reverse on landing? Smart thinking - will file that one away for myself - who knows what damage had been done and what reverse may add to.
3. The various suggestions that the aircraft was closer to HKG than MNL may come from the idea that normally you are still climbing when reaching/passing FL290 and thus would be closer to departure a/p. However, anyone who flies that route knows that you often get held down to FL290 ex HKG and can be cruising there for a long time. So I don't doubt MNL was the closest decent airport - suggestions that the crew dismissed a nearer option such as HKG for cost reasons are amongst the most outrageous, disgraceful comments I've ever read on PPrune.
4. Similarly, various comments around on PPrune that the crew just "performed in accordance with their training, what's the big deal?" are similarly outrageous and obviously are made from non-pilots. A bang, deco, no a/p's, structural integrity in doubt; and as you start the Recalls you'd be wondering whether this thing is going to hold together. Pucker Factor Rating: HIGH. Well done, boys, for keeping it all together. I hope I could do as well in the same situation.
5. And - there is a 50:50 chance the S/O would have been in one of the seats. Without labouring the specifics, that's the last sector the boys will fly together before returning to SYD, and last chance for the S/O to "get" a sector. I don't have any info on what did occur, but either JB or BW may well have jumped out of his seat on climb ex HKG and S/O jumped in. If so, "well done" to the S/O also.
6. As for what caused the problem, who knows? Can't investigate it via the internet from the other side of the world, or from reading the media, so I'll leave it to the real experts to discover.
7. Up the track, we're already nick-naming JB "Boom Boom Bartels".....
Great team effort, guys, you make us proud. Well done.
2. Sounds like they didn't use reverse on landing? Smart thinking - will file that one away for myself - who knows what damage had been done and what reverse may add to.
3. The various suggestions that the aircraft was closer to HKG than MNL may come from the idea that normally you are still climbing when reaching/passing FL290 and thus would be closer to departure a/p. However, anyone who flies that route knows that you often get held down to FL290 ex HKG and can be cruising there for a long time. So I don't doubt MNL was the closest decent airport - suggestions that the crew dismissed a nearer option such as HKG for cost reasons are amongst the most outrageous, disgraceful comments I've ever read on PPrune.
4. Similarly, various comments around on PPrune that the crew just "performed in accordance with their training, what's the big deal?" are similarly outrageous and obviously are made from non-pilots. A bang, deco, no a/p's, structural integrity in doubt; and as you start the Recalls you'd be wondering whether this thing is going to hold together. Pucker Factor Rating: HIGH. Well done, boys, for keeping it all together. I hope I could do as well in the same situation.
5. And - there is a 50:50 chance the S/O would have been in one of the seats. Without labouring the specifics, that's the last sector the boys will fly together before returning to SYD, and last chance for the S/O to "get" a sector. I don't have any info on what did occur, but either JB or BW may well have jumped out of his seat on climb ex HKG and S/O jumped in. If so, "well done" to the S/O also.
6. As for what caused the problem, who knows? Can't investigate it via the internet from the other side of the world, or from reading the media, so I'll leave it to the real experts to discover.
7. Up the track, we're already nick-naming JB "Boom Boom Bartels".....
Great team effort, guys, you make us proud. Well done.
Last edited by Jay Arr; 27th Jul 2008 at 04:46.
The main thing to be learned from this incident is that the Captain made it home to the missus with the duty free still intact, as per the photo in the Herald-Sun.
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Well Put Jay Arr
I am a LAME 744 rated and I have to agree strongly with you Jay Arr.
Mate, I bet if some of the "What ever/ big deal" people were on that flight as pax much less flying the thing they would be crapping themselves!!
Pretty easy to make big statements on the net people. The guys flying that thing did a top job. Do not belittle what they have done. Every time they jump into the cockpit they are taking on a MASSIVE resposibility and those guys stood up to the litmus test.
These are the sort of Pilots that make QF what it is. The s##t doesn't hit the fan to often, but when it does they are up to it!
Great job you guys! You ARE worth more money.
Mate, I bet if some of the "What ever/ big deal" people were on that flight as pax much less flying the thing they would be crapping themselves!!
Pretty easy to make big statements on the net people. The guys flying that thing did a top job. Do not belittle what they have done. Every time they jump into the cockpit they are taking on a MASSIVE resposibility and those guys stood up to the litmus test.
These are the sort of Pilots that make QF what it is. The s##t doesn't hit the fan to often, but when it does they are up to it!
Great job you guys! You ARE worth more money.
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Reversers used?
Sounds like they didn't use reverse on landing?
If you watch this video from the LA Times you will hear the roar of the reverse thrusts several seconds after touch down, and the pax applauding after the reversers were stowed.
Los Angeles Times Video
This of cause does not add nor take away the credit due to the admirable act of the flight crew. Well done chaps.
Happy Potter
If you watch this video from the LA Times you will hear the roar of the reverse thrusts several seconds after touch down, and the pax applauding after the reversers were stowed.
Los Angeles Times Video
This of cause does not add nor take away the credit due to the admirable act of the flight crew. Well done chaps.
Happy Potter
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The Capt and FO were in the seats. The FO hand flew the descent whilst the Capt dealt with the checklists and systems failures. The Captain landed the aircraft as per SOP.
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Wow what an exciting week for all the wrong reasons.
I hope this is a BIG BLOODY WAKE UP CALL to Geoff Murray David and all the other morons that run this once illustrious and wonderful airline. It is after all an airline, not a BRAND, not a shareholders investment but a company that is being undermined by its management.
I applaude the crew of this aircraft, no more needs to be said.
But with QFs run of incidents in the last 12 months somebody in a postion of power needs to wake up to themselves and allow QF to return to its position of the worlds best and safest airline once again.
In my time with QF I have heard people say they are the luckiest airline in the world, with what could have been,eg Bangkok Qf1, and again this year with the 744 losing most of its elec power, VH-OED with its cracked butt joint about 5 years ago.
Whatever the reason for this latest incident, now is the time for the board to rebuild the airline and engineering and give their passengers the service,reliability and safety that they have paid for.
It is time to stop taking the paying passengers for granted and treat them with the respect and courtesy they deserve.
Thank you
I will now hop off my high horse
I hope this is a BIG BLOODY WAKE UP CALL to Geoff Murray David and all the other morons that run this once illustrious and wonderful airline. It is after all an airline, not a BRAND, not a shareholders investment but a company that is being undermined by its management.
I applaude the crew of this aircraft, no more needs to be said.
But with QFs run of incidents in the last 12 months somebody in a postion of power needs to wake up to themselves and allow QF to return to its position of the worlds best and safest airline once again.
In my time with QF I have heard people say they are the luckiest airline in the world, with what could have been,eg Bangkok Qf1, and again this year with the 744 losing most of its elec power, VH-OED with its cracked butt joint about 5 years ago.
Whatever the reason for this latest incident, now is the time for the board to rebuild the airline and engineering and give their passengers the service,reliability and safety that they have paid for.
It is time to stop taking the paying passengers for granted and treat them with the respect and courtesy they deserve.
Thank you
I will now hop off my high horse
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if an oxy bottle let go,why?heat?fatigue?(very little cycles raised in the life of an oxy bottle)manufacturing fault?(cyclinders go through extensive testing before released[tested to higher px than 1800 psi that is used])
if heat(where would the heat come from) the px relief valve would of let go first....too many questions ,i say let the investigators do their jobs,as long as CASA has nothing to do with it
if heat(where would the heat come from) the px relief valve would of let go first....too many questions ,i say let the investigators do their jobs,as long as CASA has nothing to do with it
Last edited by employes perspective; 27th Jul 2008 at 07:08.
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Thanks, Happy Potter, for that but I still can't hear the reversers. It might be a combination of poor audio quality and the crap speakers on this laptop. Whatever - the issue isn't that important, not intended to distract from the other issues or the sterling work of the crew.
And thanks for that info, Capt Kremin. Hand flying decompression events is not something we practise very often - so it just reinforces my admiration of BW.
And thanks for that info, Capt Kremin. Hand flying decompression events is not something we practise very often - so it just reinforces my admiration of BW.