Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

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Old 11th Aug 2014, 05:33
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Re; OEB, post #1584.
Is that a general CEO policy you have sourced or is it specifically the Tiger Air CEO policy? Reason being is that there is a lot of use of the word 'responsible' where the word 'accountable' should be. If this is Tiger Airs executive statement then they are fools for producing it this way and so are CASA for accepting this. A CEO is the accountable person, so if anything does well and truly go pear shaped it will be his bott bott that is carted off to the big house.

Either way keep up the good work. Julian Assange would be proud of you my friend. Let's hope old mate Captain gets his wings returned and the orchestrators of this folly receive the karma they deserve.

Last edited by Cactusjack; 11th Aug 2014 at 05:37. Reason: Enjoying OEB's work - The Julian Assange of aviation!
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Old 11th Aug 2014, 05:55
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Tiger is looking for a Manager, Flight Standards (A320). Good to see they are looking to lift their standards.

Tigerair Australia - Based in Melbourne Tullamarine

Manager, Flight Standards A320
Job ID: FO0606124619

With a proven business model, an expanding network and a team driven to outperform at every opportunity, Tigerair is the place to be. As a real airline for real people, like you, finding the right team members to ensure consistently happy customers is key for us to meet our exciting growth targets. If you’re interested in joining our fast paced but fun airline you could soon be on your way to shaping one of Australia’s most exciting success stories.

Due to continual growth and current business demands we have a rare leadership opportunity for a highly experienced Manager, Flight Standards to join our airline. You will report to the Director of Flight Operations and will be responsible for maintaining the overall standardisation of the Tigerair pilot group at the highest practical level and the implementation of the standards and performance of pilots, including the development and management of performance standards and processes.

Key responsibilities include:
  • Review all reports from Simulator checks and Line Checks of pilots, including spot checks;
  • Coordinate with the Chief Pilot and the Head of Training and Checking to ensure
  • appropriate feedback is provided to all Pilots, Instructors and Check Pilots;
  • Conduct competency checks of operating crews as contained in the operational manuals;
  • Assessment and review of flight crew proficiency to assist in the recommendation for upgrades of First Officers, Training Captains and Check Captains;
  • Recommend changes to manuals, Part A, B, C, D and E and review of other Flight Operations manuals;
  • Assist in the review of the manuals of other departments which affect pilots, to ensure the appropriate level of safety, compliance and efficiency is achieved;
  • Assist in investigations of any safety related issues relating to pilots.
  • Advise management of the outcome and any corrective actions or procedures;
  • Assist with investigations of all events relating to Flight Operations or pilots;
  • Deal with investigations and non-compliant behaviour;
  • Provide responses to AQD for the department;
  • Recommends change to manuals, processes and SOP’s;
  • Ensure compliance with regard to all regulations relating to flight crew;
  • Monitor the pilot activities and line operations to ensure pilots operate to the required company standards of safety, technical competence and commercial awareness.
Applicants should fulfill the following requirements:
  • Possess appropriate pilot training and checking experience and qualifications;
  • Extensive experience on Airbus fly by wire technology;
  • Solid knowledge and exemplary level of personal flying skill;
  • Solid Operational Management experience;
  • Knowledge of developments and changes within regulations
  • The ability to implement company policy and procedural changes;
  • Ability to influence and negotiate with others building positive relationships;
  • Demonstrated expertise in time management and organizational skills;
  • Self- disciplined, able to work independently and in a team environment;
  • Ability to work under pressure;
  • Excellent communication skills, both written and verbal;
  • Proficient with Microsoft Office suite of products.
If you think you are the right person to join our airline then we'd love to hear more about you. Please email your CV, cover letter and any supporting information you think we'd find interesting to read to (deleted)@tigerairways.com. Thanks for your interest in Tigerair.

Applicants must have the right to work in Australia.

Tigerair is an equal opportunity employer.

Due to the high volume of applications we receive, only shortlisted applicants will be contacted.
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Old 11th Aug 2014, 12:23
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To the captain concerned.

Don't get mad, get even!

This stuff is on the public record now. Time to reveal all to the travelling public as the despicable act of a company trying desperately to cover up their own failings by blaming you.

You are the scapegoat. Take em to the cleaners.
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Old 11th Aug 2014, 13:06
  #1584 (permalink)  
 
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I might be your competition but this is a load of bull****e.

It's about time we organised something through our unions to start a fighting/support fund similar to what we did for JE, If not to fight, at least to help the skipper concerned pay the mortgage and put food on the table until he is reinstated or finds his way.

Laurie, I know you are probably reading this. Is this something the AFAP can get involved with? VIPA? TWU?

Last edited by Blueskymine; 12th Aug 2014 at 02:32.
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Old 11th Aug 2014, 21:10
  #1585 (permalink)  
 
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The seven bells.

Please note, the topic discussed is the implications of the SMH article; not Harry....

A total of eight bells are struck to end a watch; to "knock seven bells out of someone" implies pretty severe handling — without actually finishing him off (7/8ths). Despite it's nautical implications, the use of a seven bells alarm system is a necessary defence when dealing with matters aeronautical. On an ascending scale, from the minor 'tinkle' (something nothing) to the bloody great big CLANG of the real deal (Incoming). A small tinkle of concern has always been the background music to the tale of Tiger; but just lately a couple of the larger, more strident alarms have been ringing. Not for the immediate safety of passengers; but for the internal health of the company and those who are ultimately responsible for that safety, long term. As the quote below is from the 'media' and Tiger have not, as yet contradicted it, it's fair game for comment; as, IMO it is a signpost to a dark place.

Tensions between Tiger flight crews and staff on the ground prompting Tiger chief pilot Harry Holling to last month email all pilots to warn them about “several reports lately of crew having heated discussions with other staff whilst on line’’. “There is no place for yelling, aggressive or threatening behaviour…this applies to radio transmissions as well as face to face communication.”
If you deconstruct the paragraph, there are several issues which are being 'glibly' covered without definition or substance.

Why are there 'tensions'? Unhappy 'ground' staff is not a high score on a safety count; but angry, distracted aircrew are a whole new level for concern. A 'one off' scuffle between ground staff and air crew is an insignificant event and even a fairly high 'count' over a year is probably acceptable; not desirable, but it happens. Now the CP response is to email the 'pilots', warning them not to argue with ground staff, not mentioning what steps have been taken to alleviate the core issues. Not addressing the issues openly and honestly serves no purpose other than to drive the 'problem' underground and foster resentment. Beating on the aircrew and supporting what they see as a problem is counterproductive. A statement more along the lines of "To all staff; management have identified certain areas within the 'system' which have led to disagreement between ground and flight staff; management have taken the steps necessary to resolve those issues. All staff have been advised of those changes and asked to report directly any further potential areas for misunderstanding". To simply ignore the 'issues' and gag the aircrew speaks of the Ostrich and the sand pit. From the article, we find not only that the 'problem' remains firmly in place, but the remedy is to dump it on the flight crew.

Shortly after the March 3 flight plan incident, Mr Holling sent an email to all pilots warning them to check flight plans for mistakes. "As pilots, we are the last line of defence and we should all exercise extra care when our flights are disrupted or not routine. Generally everyone does a great job in dealing with the pressures of low cost carrier operations and dealing with weather and curfews," Mr Holling wrote.
SOP – Crew will cross check the flight plan for gross errors. The need to state the bleeding obvious to professional aircrew, in an email is, to my mind, a loud CLANG of the big bell. There can only be two conclusions to this patronising, un-required missive – the flight crew are really slack and/or grossly under trained; or, the flight planning is such a mess that crew will be well advised to DIY, save the time, trouble and aggravation. I would prefer an email saying – be patient, we have identified some weak areas in the flight planning system. Additional training, oversight and system modification is on going; please ensure SOP is complied with during the short, interim period. From the article, we find not only that the 'problem' remains firmly in place, but the remedy is to dump it on the flight crew.

The party piece is the vaguely insulting 'generally everyone'. etc. To top it off we intimate that LCC is some kind of pressure operation. It is germane to remind all that the 'business' of LCC operations is of constant 'financial' pressure; this cannot be transferred to the operational end. The antics of those who must score financial points, has sod all to do with aircraft operations, the notion of 'pressuring' or even mentioning 'pressure' to aircrew because of their LCC status is repugnant, dangerous, demeaning and, ultimately defeats the purpose of 'lean, mean' operations.

Now, I am not saying that the report in the SMH is accurate or even written with any understanding of the internal game being played; perhaps the issues have been competently and comprehensively dealt with. If these matters have been resolved, it only leaves the PR looking foolish and overpaid; the SMH article should be firmly rebutted.

It's just as well the Australian media is terminally dense, imagine a head line and story "Deep problems within Tiger threaten air safety". "CASA fail to ensure a robust safety culture". "Pilots are being exposed to substandard flight planning. Despite several attempts to have the problems rectified, passengers are being placed in a situation where the aircraft could run out fuel. Management have informed the pilots that as a LCC, they are not allowed to question or dispute substandard or incorrect minimum flight fuel figures, happily operate under extreme pressure, must not argue with ground staff and they must check every line on the flight plan as management cannot and will not accept the responsibility". (pure fiction - of course).

Scandalous ain't it ? Boy Oh boy, how the Virgin masters would love that sort of press for breakfast...

Last edited by Kharon; 11th Aug 2014 at 21:59.
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Old 11th Aug 2014, 22:59
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The Seven Bells: Another superbly analytical post by Kharon.

I know the CP ("Harry") is not necessarily a seasoned business strategist, but something about the implication of the cost pressures being higher in an LCC than in other types of operation chills me to the marrow.

If the LCC achieves lower cost only by pressurising staff to cut costs eventually that will lead to tears. Cost cutting inevitably leads to corner cutting.

The whole LCC model is supposedly based on a different, less-expensive-to-deliver value proposition. Deconstructed fares, everything extra for the customer involves a surcharge, lower cost = lower service expectation. Bring your own lunch, no interline, carry-on only, pay for entertainment. And don't forget, where the whole LCC thing started, costs were avoided massively by flying between secondary airports, which really doesn't work in Australia because most of the secondary airports cannot accept high density jet aircraft.

Other LCC features were single type - now eschewed by some, e.g. Ezy, Virgin (Virgin is clearly no longer an LCC). Longstanding LCCs that have maintained the single-minded business focus, and have never missed a beat on profitability nor, to the best of my knowledge, never had a systemic safety issue, are probably limited to two carriers, SWA and RYR. (Happy to hear more nominations).

Safety is not a luxury to be added on to the price of a ticket by those who wish to pay a safety surcharge. It's the expectation of every passenger on every airline the price of the ticket provides adequate margins to ensure safe delivery to their destination.

If the Tiger LCC business model works in practice only by exerting a higher level of pressure on staff, all staff, then the model is doomed to fail. You cannot be the cheapest while still providing the same level of service without making sacrifices elsewhere. It's all the more worrying if those sacrifices are invisible to the customer, because that may mean they are deeply rooted in the culture and management practice.

When the pressure becomes high enough, the weakest part of the pressure vessel will provide relief. That will usually be unexpected, virtually instantaneous, and possibly catastrophic.

There's a story about the Apollo astronauts sitting on the launchpad, awaiting blast-off. Once they had completed all their checks they had little they could do except to contemplate they are sitting on top of a massive fuel tank, in the knowledge every supplier of the million-plus components keeping them alive was selected on the basis of providing the cheapest quote.

Gagging the flight crew from occasional animated rebuke of the ground crew is merely window dressing. Some kaizen-style analysis of the organisational pressure-buildup might be highly enlightening. And the outcomes could be so much better for all concerned if done outside the auspices of a formal accident investigation.

I'll leave you with a song:

Pressure pushing down on me
Pressing down on you no man ask for
Under pressure - that burns a building down
Splits a family in two
Puts people on streets
It's the terror of knowing
What this world is about
Watching some good friends
Screaming let me out
Pray tomorrow - gets me higher
Pressure on people - people on streets
Chippin' around - kick my brains around the floor
There are the days it never rains but it pours
People on streets - people on streets
It's the terror of knowing
What this world is about
Watching some good friends
Screaming let me out
Pray tomorrow - gets me higher
Pressure on people - people on streets
Turned away from it all like a blind man
Sat on a fence but it don't work
Keep coming up with love but it's so slashed and torn
Why - why - why
Love
Insanity laughs under pressure we're cracking
Can't we give ourselves one more chance
Why can't we give love one more chance
Why can't we give love
Cause love's such an old fashioned word
and love dares you to care for
The people on the edge of the night
And love dares you to change our way of
Caring about ourselves
This is our last dance
This is our last dance
This is ourselves
Under pressure
Under pressure
Pressure
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 02:37
  #1587 (permalink)  
 
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How old is Harry now ?. Is he still up to the job of looking after his pilot's or is he a yes man.

He is an AFAP man so he should be doing better and standing up to the Tiger management.
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 04:28
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I reckon it would have been many years since a CP went in to bat for a pilot in any meaningful way - too much risk to their kpi's and contract renewal I reckon.
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 05:41
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grrowler that is very true. These days most CP's are like the HR Manager - there to protect the CEO from any staffer who 'rocks the boat', whether they be guilty or innocent. The CP acts as the company policeman so to speak, running back to the CEO tattle taling.
I know of one CP who had the honour of being bestowed with the nickname 'Toenails', because the only thing you could see hanging out of the CEO's ass was the CP's toenails! Indeed a company man through and through. As for his troops... What troops??
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 08:21
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More Troo dat; and, a fairy story.

As it's an indecently early start and you have all been so kind, with apologies for the mangled metaphors:-
"Some -Kaizen-style analysis of the organisational pressure-build-up might be highly enlightening
.
Kaizen will only work when and where 'it's wanted'. Like all curses if the 'malady' is not identified a cure cannot be found. Once identified, both malady and cure: the patient must be willing to undergo the treatment; if the cure is to be effective. Our sick tiger presents with two main symptoms, which manifest through several other symbiotic ailments.

Endemic these days is the 'arse covering' comfort blanket of all care and no responsibility. They're all at it, learnt from government agencies at the tit and later spoon fed by Nanny. You can notice it with small children; no matter what young Johnny has done – it's never his fault, there's always an excuse and backdoor to slip out of provided. Then, during adulthood, the 'reflex' is so deeply ingrained, so Pavlov dog like, the subconscious response is inescapable. Every one loves the kudos, the money the power – until it's time to pay the fiddler; suddenly everyone is pointing at someone else. I wonder, do these parents realise the damage they are inflicting on their offspring? Confidence, the real McCoy variety – does not stem from knowing that no matter what comes, there is always an out; but from knowing the consequences of a bad decision or action; learned early so that responsibility for ones decisions and actions is clearly understood, later in life, when it matters.

Rice bowl protection: the cause of wars and misery, since the cave days People will go to extraordinary lengths to protect 'their' bowl and that what's in it. Drawback is the infamous, ultimately destructive "Yes" syndrome which cunningly only fills the bowl enough to ensure continued compliance, the sacrifice is insidious and painless until self respect is needed; then the magnitude of it all becomes apparent.

The reflex of self delusion and rice bowl protection in moderation is acceptable; but when ego, a denial of personal responsibility, an ability to find a donkey to pin a tale on, and work place deception are combined with an underlying basic insecurity; promoting braggadocio, team up with a slightly narcissistic temperament, all combined in the aircraft world, spell trouble. Real trouble, with a capital T.

Once upon a time, (back in the day), a King was having serious trouble as his money hoard was diminishing at a great rate. Perplexed, he called in the expert Sleuth to discover where all the wealth was disappearing to. Well of course, it was no ones fault; one alibi supported the next and so on until the sleuth was dizzy with excuses and rational and innuendo. There were of course small groups which were quite happy to 'deflect' the blame, with a well timed hint or two, onto other groups. But Sleuth had played this game before and before long had identified the ring leaders from clues gathered in stables, barns, kitchens, workshops and Pubs, where the almost honest folk (only because they were kept out of the treasury) worked and played. Anyway, later he met the King in his very private garden and told him what was what, collected his fee and melted away. Many years later on the road he met the King again, who looked much the worse for wear; "what happened?" he asked; "well" began the impoverished King, "some of those you named were relatives, others I counted as friends, some knew my secrets others my guilt and when I asked them to stop; they laughed, joined together and threw me out, I am now as you see me; a poorer but wiser man". "But I told how to cure the problem systematically" said Sleuth; "I know" mourned the King; "but I was persuaded that it was much easier to just remove a symptom, not cure the disease". Sleuth later wrote a book entitled "Setting your feet to flame, to keep your hands warm".

Tigers little problems are sort-able, with a little expense, a little pain and an understanding of how not to worry about saving five bob on a dunny roll (and pay a ten bob bonus); but how to efficiently streamline the operation into the little money making machine it should be.

Aye - the arcane, mystical art of trouble shooting is not forgotten, just temporarily 'out of fashion', while the cat's away... Call 1300 – FIXIT – for a quote (shoulders and clean handkerchiefs at discount rates)..

Too toot~

Last edited by Kharon; 12th Aug 2014 at 21:07.
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 09:49
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OEB - just curious as to what you are aiming to achieve by thrashing this out on PPRUNE. Would be the last place I think that one should be spilling guts about a serious legal dogfight. Reckon you're just setting yourself up to have damaging quotes thrown back at you in a legal forum.
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 11:18
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What's your personal gripe with Tiger OEB?
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 11:50
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I don't think OEB has an 'issue' per se, it seems more like a 'mission', a mission to defend a pilot who has been wronged in a most heinous way. A mission to bring about justice while exposing the injustice of this farcical incident. So I say good work OEB. If as a side issue this makes Tiger look like crap well so what? Tiger only has itself to blame if the details of this issue are true, they've brought this attention on themselves. It takes balls to do what OEB is doing, great big balls, full credit to him.
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 11:55
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one of oeb's posts which now seems to be missing was written in 1st person seemingly by the capt involved.

i may have been cognitively impaired at the time tho
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 21:52
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Belly full of love juice or not Waren9, you are correct. There was more than one post in the first person.


So Cactus- if on is on a mission to defend a pilot, ie yourself, I personally feel that posting the whole affair on Pprune is not the place to do it.
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 22:20
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The post is still there. If OEB wants to post on PPRUNE in regards to their (or another persons) treatment at the hands of an employer, so be it.

Freedom of expression. Or do the companies own that now

Maybe if we all stood up to such people and practices, the industry would not be in a position that it is now.

You will always get your selfish, sniveling greasy pole climbers or others that do not give a $hit about anyone else. When it happens to them though, they are the first to cry out for help/assistance

You must look at the underlying actions of both companies recently to understand their way of treating professional flight crew.

Fear and intimidation is not a good way to run a business. Lead by example..............
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 23:07
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.....I personally feel that posting the whole affair on Pprune is not the place to do it.
Thing is though, none of it effects you personally....does it?
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 23:18
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So Cactus- if on is on a mission to defend a pilot, ie yourself, I personally feel that posting the whole affair on Pprune is not the place to do it.
WTF, so now I am OEB and the pilot who got shafted?? Oh yeah, I am actually Elvis as well, and Jimmy Hoffa
Sorry to disappoint you Trev but I am not who you think I am, and you certainly aren't the smartest tool in the shed if you can't see that. Be that as it may what I am is someone who likes to see justice served, and I am someone who particularly despises the way airlines et al screw over innocent people at times, nothing more and nothing less. I like OEB's posts and support his methodology, even though I don't work for the airline in question and I am not the pilot who is getting done over like a roast turkey......however, if by my support of said pilot, and OEB's posts, some wish to accuse me of being both or either individual then that is fine by me, bring it on, for me that is flattering and a nice honor

By all accounts the pilot in question has been unequivocally screwed, and should be supported by our industry 100%. Again as I have said before - if Tiger had no dirty laundry then OEB would have no dirty laundry to air. Don't shoot the messenger. The 'fix' is within Tigers reach - just do the right thing in the first frigging place!!!!
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Old 13th Aug 2014, 04:07
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Quote Kharon:
"Some -Kaizen-style analysis of the organisational pressure-build-up might be highly enlightening.
Kaizen will only work when and where 'it's wanted'. Like all curses if the 'malady' is not identified a cure cannot be found. Once identified, both malady and cure: the patient must be willing to undergo the treatment; if the cure is to be effective. Our sick tiger presents with two main symptoms, which manifest through several other symbiotic ailments.
I think it's true to say ANY process to identify root cause and propose a workable solution will be welcome only when it is wanted. As far as Kaizen goes (which is quite a long way) there needs to be that all-important root cause identification. Accomplishable through the "5 Whys" process. The process isn't just to inform the diagnostician, it's carried out to get the patient to accept the reality of the problem, too.

Two ways to do this: Tiger calls in someone independent (like the Sleuth in Kharon's post, above?) who tells them what's wrong and how to fix it, or they ignore the problem until it manifests itself through an event that require an ATSB investigation and THEN they face the music - in a public forum.

One of these paths is the strategy of least regret. I wonder which they will choose?
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Old 13th Aug 2014, 06:18
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Hey Cactus that CP you refer to is he the same one that now works in PNG and is lovingly referred to as TCAS. Now no longer able to be MFO in Australia as deemed a not fit and proper person? Just wondering, BTW I like your thinking. Socks first then shoes school for the gifted class of 58.
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