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The man with the twisted lip.
Bear with me; there is a point. Many years ago; Conan Doyle wrote the fictitious 'Sherlock Holmes' stories. One was about 'the man with the twisted lip'. In short, a junior journalist researching a story dressed as a beggar to get the story;and, was successful; so much so that he resigned his job and took up permanent residence on the London streets as a beggar; he simply made more money that way. Anyway – one day his wife 'saw' him being murdered while she was lost in the back streets; through a window of an opium den owned and operated by some very shady characters. Enter Holmes – he nuts it all out and at the end of the tale, everyone realises that, for various reasons the wrong man had been identified as murdered. Turns out, the 'victim' would rather be in jail, as a murder, than let his wife know that the family wealth came from his dressing as a beggar each day. Great story and worth a read; but no where near as bizarre as the current Tiger tale.
The elements appear parallel though; drugs, misidentification, false imprisonment etc. etc. Just no Holmes to 'sort it' all out before the public knows....
Maybe, it's just me; but deputy chief pilots have always seemed 'suss'; never had a flicker of 'bovver' with the boss; but DCP? – mostly at the dizzy limit of Toller-ance. Seems to me changes need to occur at Tiger, tout de suite; the tooter, the sweeter. You can't just barge about, sacking blokes on a whim; laying accusations on a fancy. Those who do not have fact and empirical evidence to support it, need to apologise, re instate and then; on account of cocking it up so completely: RESIGN.
Now; I've never been sure how to express 'bugger off' in more than one sentence; however; if three pages suit, then I shall endeavour to do it. Just so long as the message is completely, utterly and Virginaly understood. That is - the penalty for crucifying the wrong man, on the wrong agenda, for the wrong reasons, sacking and then; leaking the wrong blessed report to a half wit press is unacceptable.
Total cock-up; the man with the twisted lip was a fantasy, a fiction: this is very real and very, very offensive. No operator; I'm done.....
The elements appear parallel though; drugs, misidentification, false imprisonment etc. etc. Just no Holmes to 'sort it' all out before the public knows....
Maybe, it's just me; but deputy chief pilots have always seemed 'suss'; never had a flicker of 'bovver' with the boss; but DCP? – mostly at the dizzy limit of Toller-ance. Seems to me changes need to occur at Tiger, tout de suite; the tooter, the sweeter. You can't just barge about, sacking blokes on a whim; laying accusations on a fancy. Those who do not have fact and empirical evidence to support it, need to apologise, re instate and then; on account of cocking it up so completely: RESIGN.
Now; I've never been sure how to express 'bugger off' in more than one sentence; however; if three pages suit, then I shall endeavour to do it. Just so long as the message is completely, utterly and Virginaly understood. That is - the penalty for crucifying the wrong man, on the wrong agenda, for the wrong reasons, sacking and then; leaking the wrong blessed report to a half wit press is unacceptable.
Total cock-up; the man with the twisted lip was a fantasy, a fiction: this is very real and very, very offensive. No operator; I'm done.....
Last edited by Kharon; 4th Aug 2014 at 09:25.
I am sure I am not alone in finding this latest development at Tiger Australia immensely disturbing.
We have $12/hr staff supported by $ 500K/yr CASA (ex-colleague) who can decide in a blink to destroy the life of someone without evidence.
Maybe this has become modern Australia. If so, count me out
The union needs to fund a civil case that will require disclosure...assuming Australia still subscribes to the common law
We have $12/hr staff supported by $ 500K/yr CASA (ex-colleague) who can decide in a blink to destroy the life of someone without evidence.
Maybe this has become modern Australia. If so, count me out
The union needs to fund a civil case that will require disclosure...assuming Australia still subscribes to the common law
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Tanx....
Servo - Nicely written Kharon.
Toot toot.
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OEB
I do agree that this entire mess should have been dealt with in-house.
Now that the smoke has turned to fire and progressed to a dismissal, I agree with previous posters comments who think it wise that 'the gent' walk away and not incur the past being dredged and the future destroyed.
Unless he can say with an honest hand on heart that there is no smoke and no fire?
Fiji is lovely this time of year and 'the gent' apparently has a good mate over there to help him out, as he has done in the past.
Probably just coincidental... some interesting faces swanning around the JQ office chasing MRs recently vacated job...
All the best.
I do agree that this entire mess should have been dealt with in-house.
Now that the smoke has turned to fire and progressed to a dismissal, I agree with previous posters comments who think it wise that 'the gent' walk away and not incur the past being dredged and the future destroyed.
Unless he can say with an honest hand on heart that there is no smoke and no fire?
Fiji is lovely this time of year and 'the gent' apparently has a good mate over there to help him out, as he has done in the past.
Probably just coincidental... some interesting faces swanning around the JQ office chasing MRs recently vacated job...
All the best.
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Originally Posted by 004wercras
Welcome to the great western fallacy called 'democracy'
Anyone wishing to undertake an action against a governemnet department or large politically well connected business & expecting to have any expectation of justice from the courts should read that document very carefully. Welcome to the modern reincarnation of facism.
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MR is stepping down and flying the 787. Whether pushed or jumped is the mystery.
Are JQ allowing direct entries onto the 787?
The folk at QF getting bumped to the RH seat will be pleased.
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Things that make you go Hmmmm.
OEM "(18 a) Unfortunately for Tiger and Virgin he has the means to fight it all the way to the High Court in Canberra and that is exactly what he has advised he will do."
Does our man want to be reinstated, with an apology? or is he determined, at his own expense to pave the way for the next poor bugger; note, that's the next; not the first and most certainly, not the last. The unions used to be very good at sorting out these sorts of troubles; mostly quietly through negotiation rather than court room brawls; not sure how (or even if) that works anymore. But pick your fight and pick the ground carefully; win one round comprehensively, the rest will flow on. The risk, if you loose is that the other wins and this type of 'entertainment' becomes an accepted practice, supported by a precedent.
If it were me; (IMVH non qualified O) I think I'd tackle the CASA denial of the FOI request first, seems to be the weakest point, particularly if there is any 'hangover' from the subsequent testing proving – no bad habits. Once identified, the miserable piece of dung who kicked this off can personally be stripped of his house; his dog and his Missus may be kicked and used as best pleases. Unfair dismissal rules tend to lean toward those who prove they were, in fact, treated 'unfairly'; this avenue should be approached with caution. The target outcome – financial; as that hurts those who sought to hurt you; and, personal – it will really upset those who perpetrated this offence when you taxi out past the office and flip 'em the two finger salute through the DV window. That's where real satisfaction lives.
As stated, I've seen many 'battles' and nursed a few of the wounded back to sanity. Advice I can stand behind (IMO) is to develop the patience of a rabbit trap; hoard evidence like a miser; get advice on 'who' is the best brief for task then research, very carefully, before you finally chose counsel; stay close to your friends and closer to your family, stay out of the pub, eat your veggies and do not make 'your matter' the sole topic of conversation. Stay detached when you write stuff; pretend it's someone else, "Bloggs" is an old, trusted companion.
I know; all easily said; bloody hard to do. Just the thoughts of a glorified bus driver (magna cum lumpy), offered for what they are worth, in honest support.
This has been a reverse charge call to the school of hard knocks.
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OEB
Not that I have any feelings towards Tiger and I don't have any first hand knowledge about their standards but,
I get the impression that it is something other than a top flight operation.
Perhaps they are looking for a "Standards" Manager for a reason.
On the point of HH's CRM skills.
I recall that he was an FO at said 'Asian Airline' and also being told that he just re-hashed 20 year old scenarios collected from his old airline to people who couldn't understand what he was talking about , didn't care what he was saying and kept right on doing what they had been doing before he started giving classes ( sans CRM).
I have also heard that his people management skills don't particularly fit in with CRM best practices either.
By the way:
He wouldn't be the only FO from an Asian airline who has re-invented himself into a high flying position at a local airline ( via the CRM banner that HR Depts love so much and/or perhaps in some cases by judicious use of English or editing of facts).
I believe that your points about the fuel planning method used by the crew are flawed.
The company Fuel Policy is part of the Ops Manual and over rides the Manufacturer's Manual unless the process that you described is stated in the Ops Manual as an approved method. Sunk then and there.
The fuel planning method that you suggest works providing you input the correct data but, I think that it is not approved.
The crew should have firstly, questioned why they were flying to Perth without passengers and asked questions . You are an airline after all.
The fact that the ZFW was at or near the Basic Weight would be a big hint, if you know your "Aircraft Limitations Chapter" .
The correct action would have been to contact a "duty pilot Manager" ( wouldn't be surprised if Tiger don't have them) and seek advice.
After contacting a manager, used the MCDU it to get a fuel burn and reserves but, using information gained from their enquiries to get a realistic ZFW.
Use less advantageous winds if they were without correct wind data .
I think that the sight of passengers walking to the aircraft would have caused most competent PICs to think about putting on more fuel at that point and if you miss Cufew, tough. Safety first.
I also think that the Captain should, in any case, have used the PIC discretion for safety to uplift more fuel due to the fact that they was no accurate Flight Plan , probably no accurate load or wind data available to them , until he felt happy that the Fuel Policy had been complied with and all eventualities had been covered.
The moment he became aware ( if he did) that things weren't right, he should have stopped, taken a step back and consulted with his F/O as to whether what they were doing was safe. CRM, I did learn something.
If he missed the Curfew, again, tough.
In the old days, the smart people used "top up" to go to Perth in good weather with Burn + 4,000 min and fuel to get to Learmonth ,if there was the chance of fog.
In other words, get it all your way as much as possible.
The curfew pressure is and old trap for new players.
Get pressured to make a decision........ bring more gas or just say no.
Again, it appears to be a case of two supposedly competent pilots missing something obvious and it appears that this is happening with all of these low costs.
People are being employed at the bottom with insufficient experience and then promoted too quickly. It is only later that holes in their abilities/experience and/ or training are exposed.
Once these people get into training, standards and management, the whole system is corrupted.
I hear that there is a self proclaimed 'high flyer' at Tiger who had trouble passing his all checks at all his past airlines and would break into tears because he couldn't handle the pressure. Does he hold a Command,Train or check at Tiger?
On the point of the drug testing:
Strange how the pilot had had what 5 drug tests in how many months?
Personally, I have never been drug tested but then, I wouldn't know what a drug was if I fell over a case of them.
You also pointed out that this pilot doesn't even drink ,is the father of a young family and that he is active in his community but, you did not
say that he does not take drugs nor does he have a history of drug taking.
Acting a little bit like a Barrister, I think.
Did this pilot have a history of drug taking or were the multiple tests just a case of victimization with no basis in fact?
Either way, I wouldn't go throwing much money towards legal action .
It is obvious that he is not wanted and he should just go and look for greener pastures.
From what I hear, departing Tiger for greener pastures isn't too difficult but, you would not want a bad reputation following you.
Best of luck to the individual involved.
Not that I have any feelings towards Tiger and I don't have any first hand knowledge about their standards but,
I get the impression that it is something other than a top flight operation.
Perhaps they are looking for a "Standards" Manager for a reason.
On the point of HH's CRM skills.
I recall that he was an FO at said 'Asian Airline' and also being told that he just re-hashed 20 year old scenarios collected from his old airline to people who couldn't understand what he was talking about , didn't care what he was saying and kept right on doing what they had been doing before he started giving classes ( sans CRM).
I have also heard that his people management skills don't particularly fit in with CRM best practices either.
By the way:
He wouldn't be the only FO from an Asian airline who has re-invented himself into a high flying position at a local airline ( via the CRM banner that HR Depts love so much and/or perhaps in some cases by judicious use of English or editing of facts).
I believe that your points about the fuel planning method used by the crew are flawed.
The company Fuel Policy is part of the Ops Manual and over rides the Manufacturer's Manual unless the process that you described is stated in the Ops Manual as an approved method. Sunk then and there.
The fuel planning method that you suggest works providing you input the correct data but, I think that it is not approved.
The crew should have firstly, questioned why they were flying to Perth without passengers and asked questions . You are an airline after all.
The fact that the ZFW was at or near the Basic Weight would be a big hint, if you know your "Aircraft Limitations Chapter" .
The correct action would have been to contact a "duty pilot Manager" ( wouldn't be surprised if Tiger don't have them) and seek advice.
After contacting a manager, used the MCDU it to get a fuel burn and reserves but, using information gained from their enquiries to get a realistic ZFW.
Use less advantageous winds if they were without correct wind data .
I think that the sight of passengers walking to the aircraft would have caused most competent PICs to think about putting on more fuel at that point and if you miss Cufew, tough. Safety first.
I also think that the Captain should, in any case, have used the PIC discretion for safety to uplift more fuel due to the fact that they was no accurate Flight Plan , probably no accurate load or wind data available to them , until he felt happy that the Fuel Policy had been complied with and all eventualities had been covered.
The moment he became aware ( if he did) that things weren't right, he should have stopped, taken a step back and consulted with his F/O as to whether what they were doing was safe. CRM, I did learn something.
If he missed the Curfew, again, tough.
In the old days, the smart people used "top up" to go to Perth in good weather with Burn + 4,000 min and fuel to get to Learmonth ,if there was the chance of fog.
In other words, get it all your way as much as possible.
The curfew pressure is and old trap for new players.
Get pressured to make a decision........ bring more gas or just say no.
Again, it appears to be a case of two supposedly competent pilots missing something obvious and it appears that this is happening with all of these low costs.
People are being employed at the bottom with insufficient experience and then promoted too quickly. It is only later that holes in their abilities/experience and/ or training are exposed.
Once these people get into training, standards and management, the whole system is corrupted.
I hear that there is a self proclaimed 'high flyer' at Tiger who had trouble passing his all checks at all his past airlines and would break into tears because he couldn't handle the pressure. Does he hold a Command,Train or check at Tiger?
On the point of the drug testing:
Strange how the pilot had had what 5 drug tests in how many months?
Personally, I have never been drug tested but then, I wouldn't know what a drug was if I fell over a case of them.
You also pointed out that this pilot doesn't even drink ,is the father of a young family and that he is active in his community but, you did not
say that he does not take drugs nor does he have a history of drug taking.
Acting a little bit like a Barrister, I think.
Did this pilot have a history of drug taking or were the multiple tests just a case of victimization with no basis in fact?
Either way, I wouldn't go throwing much money towards legal action .
It is obvious that he is not wanted and he should just go and look for greener pastures.
From what I hear, departing Tiger for greener pastures isn't too difficult but, you would not want a bad reputation following you.
Best of luck to the individual involved.
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Is Tiger being allowed by CAsA to breach the regulations??
If everything that has been reported in this thread is in fact true, then apart from the obvious breaches of the Fair Work Act etc, Tiger haven't complied with;
- Their Safety Management System (SMS)
- Their Human Factors training/syllabi
- Their Just Culture policy
- Elements of their CRM
Aren't all the above items part of regulatory requirement? If the answer to any or all of the above is 'yes', then Tiger have acted non-compliantly with the regs and their own manuals. So why aren't CAsA doing something about that?
Now of course we all know that CAsA don't comply with much themselves, they love to 'act how they want when they want' and certainly don't expect the same levels of compliance for themselves as they do for operators, but if CAsA refuse to take action they are then condoning Tigers non-compliance with regulations. And if CAsA are willing to turn a blind eye or be complicit in this matter, then what else are they turning a blind eye to? Tiger staff have already admitted to minimal to nil flight planning training with regards to this matter, and that's just one red flag here. Are we scratching the surface? Does all this give me any assurance in Tiger or CAsA? Hardly.
I can only wish the very best for the Captain if he is indeed a pilot with a clean sheet and stellar reputation for compliance and excellence.
Tick Tock
- Their Safety Management System (SMS)
- Their Human Factors training/syllabi
- Their Just Culture policy
- Elements of their CRM
Aren't all the above items part of regulatory requirement? If the answer to any or all of the above is 'yes', then Tiger have acted non-compliantly with the regs and their own manuals. So why aren't CAsA doing something about that?
Now of course we all know that CAsA don't comply with much themselves, they love to 'act how they want when they want' and certainly don't expect the same levels of compliance for themselves as they do for operators, but if CAsA refuse to take action they are then condoning Tigers non-compliance with regulations. And if CAsA are willing to turn a blind eye or be complicit in this matter, then what else are they turning a blind eye to? Tiger staff have already admitted to minimal to nil flight planning training with regards to this matter, and that's just one red flag here. Are we scratching the surface? Does all this give me any assurance in Tiger or CAsA? Hardly.
I can only wish the very best for the Captain if he is indeed a pilot with a clean sheet and stellar reputation for compliance and excellence.
Tick Tock