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Old 2nd Aug 2011, 10:33
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Given the Singapore connections of both Virgin and Tiger, watch for a new Tiger to appear that will be Virgin's LCC in Australia, i.e JB will have QF surrounded in the same way as Dicko surrounded Brett with QF and JQ.

Vale QF
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Old 2nd Aug 2011, 11:07
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Sunstar,

I'm not dreaming, word is there was a meeting today with all unions present and the cards were layed on the table for the dec's.

Also, the whispers were that around 40 MOU spots will be up for grabs!
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Old 4th Aug 2011, 10:09
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Maybe September or October or December the way it looks. Seems like CASA is treating it like a whole new AOC

The initial grounding was set to expire this week, but Mr Gibson says the company should not expect to be back in the air any time soon.

"Right now the civil aviation authority can't give a time frame on when we might be in a position to make a decision about whether Tiger can fly again," he said.

"There are still a lot of issues to be worked through - Tiger still has to do a lot of work."


Tiger to remain grounded 'for some time' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 00:11
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In the Australian today they say Tiger are reluctant to meet one of the requirements by CASA. My bet is CASA want Tiger to take control of the initial endo training. ie no more pay up front and get it where you like.

SN
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 00:31
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If that was the case then J* and Virgin would have to meet the same requirement. What I don't understand is that CASA are saying that Tiger's paperwork is not up to the required standard. What happened to the paperwork that was presented for their original AOC application? Or is it a case of if you start small then there is less paperwork required. CASA should be held to account for why Tiger was allowed to start in the first place.

As for DEC for Tiger Captains into J* they need to have a good look at what happened to the last batch of DEC's in 2008. The other issue is that if Tiger were grounded because of an apparent lack of appropriate standards in pilot training why should they be going to J* as DEC?
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 01:44
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My bet is CASA want Tiger to take control of the initial endo training. ie no more pay up front and get it where you like.
If that was the case then J* and Virgin would have to meet the same requirement
I believe there is a subtle difference. Isn't it the case with Virgin that a prospective pilot is compelled to do their endorsement at Alteon in BN because Virgin have an arrangement with this provider. I don't believe you can just help yourself to a 737 endorsement anywhere and start work for them. Although that begs the question that a pilot who is A320 endorsed goes to work for Tiger, they also do not go through a provider aligned with the AOC holder.

I doubt that this would be the major sticking point, it is more about the standardisation issues once inducted into the airline regardless of where the pilot got their endorsement.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 05:52
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When VB first started pilots were getting their endorsements all over the world. What are the pilot training issues at Tiger? I haven't seen any information that elaborates on what the specific problems are.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 06:34
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Lucky "Tiger" hasn't had any engines fall off a plane or an emergency like othe australian airlines if they did would CASA ever let them fly again.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 08:56
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well done lookleft

Finally someone with an objective view instead of all the Tiger hunters. Sorry this stinks of a conspiracy just like what happened to Compass through the pressure of the TAA and Ansett Duopoloy!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 09:32
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Look for the boys to be doing circuits at AV under supervision of, and at the request of CASA. Believe it or not.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 10:34
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I recall a CASA spokesman making comment that they are a little concerned with the "pay for your own training" and get your endo wherever thing, they did not mention Tiger specifically though. Although quite legal I think it looks a bit GA ish'.

Normally an airline would employ the odd pilot with an "off the shelf" endo but not the bulk of their pilots, and then they would be given extra sim and line flying to adapt to co procedures.

SN

Edit: I understand its not new, VB, JQ and many others have done it years ago. Perhaps they are picking that point because its something Tiger do differently.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 10:37
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Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 11:18
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Soup Nazi says earlier
In the Australian today they say Tiger are reluctant to meet one of the requirements by CASA. My bet is CASA want Tiger to take control of the initial endo training. ie no more pay up front and get it where you like.
Would be a small victory for common sense if this is the case.

How many millions has this grounding cost Tiger to date? A type rating bonding scheme would have been quite cheap in reality..

Quit your Jibba Jabba fool!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 11:35
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Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation.
Quick calculations says they need to raise average fares, and thats based on previous operating expenses, by $50 per sector average.

If I assume an increase in $4m PA in operating expenses, a $50 increase would give them a $3m profit PA.

SUMMARY - You cannot operate in Australia with average $79 fares. And thats about all Tiger ever got
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 12:13
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For those that haven't heard or read, the Federal Court adjourned proceedings and the airline will at the least be suspended until 11 August. A further Directions hearing is listed for that date.


Further to what others have said above

CASA said that the main outstanding issues are related to documentation that show how Tiger will address the "safety problems".
"We've been reviewing that documentation. We've found problems in it, and said to Tiger they've got to go back and fix those up," said CASA. The documents cover "everything from how the pilots fly the aircraft, to how the aircraft are operated themselves", it added.
The airline's Singapore-based parent, Tiger Airways, yesterday reported a net loss of Singapore dollar (S$) 20.6 million for the three months to 30 June due to high fuel costs and the impact of natural disasters in Australia.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 21:49
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Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation.
No they didn't.

They lost $19 million between April-June, $7m of which was the "deferred" tax offset, and they Volcano cost the company over $10m.

If it wasn't for the Volcano or the Tax offset, well then the loss would haven been minimal.
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Old 6th Aug 2011, 07:13
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Folks,
With the latest CASA deferment of any resumption of operations by Tiger, looks to me like CASA are using the "ever changing goalposts" strategy so familiar to GA AOC operators, too numerous to mention, that have fallen foul of the infinitely variable interpretations of our ratbag rules.

Doesn't anybody remember the Virgin Blue star-up, delayed for months by CASA ever changing paperwork demands, cost Virgin a motza, they completely missed the Olympics boost to air travel.

The easiest decision for a public servant to make is to say NO!, it will never come back to personally haunt him, her or it. If somebody courageously says YES, they have made a decision that may bounce back.

Having said NO! about something even more sacrosanct in the public mind than motherhood, "air safety", saying YES is doubly fraught.

In a case like this, I actually feel quite sorry for the worker bees in CASA, I would like to hear somebody a little more "authoritative" than "Minutes to Live"( aka. "Crash") Gibson having something useful to say to the public.

All this stands in total contrast to the US FAA/NTSB approach, where the press releases on alleged non-compliance are rather brutal, but at least everybody (including the traveling public) knows what the alleged problem is, and what changes FAA are demanding ---- and can make a judgement about the likelihood of success of demanded changes.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 6th Aug 2011, 07:26
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Virgin's start date was delayed, but they were operating before the Olympics started (just).
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Old 6th Aug 2011, 08:07
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GAFA,
Like I said, delayed for months, and missed a boost from the Olympics -- see the rules about advertising/selling anything until you have a AOC.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 9th Aug 2011, 12:43
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Interesting to see SQ has placed Capt Gerard Yeap Beng Hock as a non-executive Director of Tiger immediately to no doubt protect their Tiger investment.

Capt Yeap is the Senior Vice President Flight Operations of SQ and rated on the A310, B747 and B777. He is also a member of the IATA Operations committee.

With the change of Chairman at Tiger and Capt Yeap it will be interesting to see the changes and if Tony Davis survives.
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