Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

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Old 5th Aug 2011, 01:44
  #1261 (permalink)  
 
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My bet is CASA want Tiger to take control of the initial endo training. ie no more pay up front and get it where you like.
If that was the case then J* and Virgin would have to meet the same requirement
I believe there is a subtle difference. Isn't it the case with Virgin that a prospective pilot is compelled to do their endorsement at Alteon in BN because Virgin have an arrangement with this provider. I don't believe you can just help yourself to a 737 endorsement anywhere and start work for them. Although that begs the question that a pilot who is A320 endorsed goes to work for Tiger, they also do not go through a provider aligned with the AOC holder.

I doubt that this would be the major sticking point, it is more about the standardisation issues once inducted into the airline regardless of where the pilot got their endorsement.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 05:52
  #1262 (permalink)  
 
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When VB first started pilots were getting their endorsements all over the world. What are the pilot training issues at Tiger? I haven't seen any information that elaborates on what the specific problems are.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 06:34
  #1263 (permalink)  
 
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Lucky "Tiger" hasn't had any engines fall off a plane or an emergency like othe australian airlines if they did would CASA ever let them fly again.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 08:56
  #1264 (permalink)  
 
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well done lookleft

Finally someone with an objective view instead of all the Tiger hunters. Sorry this stinks of a conspiracy just like what happened to Compass through the pressure of the TAA and Ansett Duopoloy!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 09:32
  #1265 (permalink)  
 
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Look for the boys to be doing circuits at AV under supervision of, and at the request of CASA. Believe it or not.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 10:34
  #1266 (permalink)  
 
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I recall a CASA spokesman making comment that they are a little concerned with the "pay for your own training" and get your endo wherever thing, they did not mention Tiger specifically though. Although quite legal I think it looks a bit GA ish'.

Normally an airline would employ the odd pilot with an "off the shelf" endo but not the bulk of their pilots, and then they would be given extra sim and line flying to adapt to co procedures.

SN

Edit: I understand its not new, VB, JQ and many others have done it years ago. Perhaps they are picking that point because its something Tiger do differently.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 10:37
  #1267 (permalink)  
 
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Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 11:18
  #1268 (permalink)  
 
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Soup Nazi says earlier
In the Australian today they say Tiger are reluctant to meet one of the requirements by CASA. My bet is CASA want Tiger to take control of the initial endo training. ie no more pay up front and get it where you like.
Would be a small victory for common sense if this is the case.

How many millions has this grounding cost Tiger to date? A type rating bonding scheme would have been quite cheap in reality..

Quit your Jibba Jabba fool!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 11:35
  #1269 (permalink)  
 
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Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation.
Quick calculations says they need to raise average fares, and thats based on previous operating expenses, by $50 per sector average.

If I assume an increase in $4m PA in operating expenses, a $50 increase would give them a $3m profit PA.

SUMMARY - You cannot operate in Australia with average $79 fares. And thats about all Tiger ever got
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 12:13
  #1270 (permalink)  
 
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For those that haven't heard or read, the Federal Court adjourned proceedings and the airline will at the least be suspended until 11 August. A further Directions hearing is listed for that date.


Further to what others have said above

CASA said that the main outstanding issues are related to documentation that show how Tiger will address the "safety problems".
"We've been reviewing that documentation. We've found problems in it, and said to Tiger they've got to go back and fix those up," said CASA. The documents cover "everything from how the pilots fly the aircraft, to how the aircraft are operated themselves", it added.
The airline's Singapore-based parent, Tiger Airways, yesterday reported a net loss of Singapore dollar (S$) 20.6 million for the three months to 30 June due to high fuel costs and the impact of natural disasters in Australia.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 21:49
  #1271 (permalink)  
 
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Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation.
No they didn't.

They lost $19 million between April-June, $7m of which was the "deferred" tax offset, and they Volcano cost the company over $10m.

If it wasn't for the Volcano or the Tax offset, well then the loss would haven been minimal.
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Old 6th Aug 2011, 07:13
  #1272 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
With the latest CASA deferment of any resumption of operations by Tiger, looks to me like CASA are using the "ever changing goalposts" strategy so familiar to GA AOC operators, too numerous to mention, that have fallen foul of the infinitely variable interpretations of our ratbag rules.

Doesn't anybody remember the Virgin Blue star-up, delayed for months by CASA ever changing paperwork demands, cost Virgin a motza, they completely missed the Olympics boost to air travel.

The easiest decision for a public servant to make is to say NO!, it will never come back to personally haunt him, her or it. If somebody courageously says YES, they have made a decision that may bounce back.

Having said NO! about something even more sacrosanct in the public mind than motherhood, "air safety", saying YES is doubly fraught.

In a case like this, I actually feel quite sorry for the worker bees in CASA, I would like to hear somebody a little more "authoritative" than "Minutes to Live"( aka. "Crash") Gibson having something useful to say to the public.

All this stands in total contrast to the US FAA/NTSB approach, where the press releases on alleged non-compliance are rather brutal, but at least everybody (including the traveling public) knows what the alleged problem is, and what changes FAA are demanding ---- and can make a judgement about the likelihood of success of demanded changes.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 6th Aug 2011, 07:26
  #1273 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin's start date was delayed, but they were operating before the Olympics started (just).
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Old 6th Aug 2011, 08:07
  #1274 (permalink)  
 
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GAFA,
Like I said, delayed for months, and missed a boost from the Olympics -- see the rules about advertising/selling anything until you have a AOC.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 9th Aug 2011, 12:43
  #1275 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting to see SQ has placed Capt Gerard Yeap Beng Hock as a non-executive Director of Tiger immediately to no doubt protect their Tiger investment.

Capt Yeap is the Senior Vice President Flight Operations of SQ and rated on the A310, B747 and B777. He is also a member of the IATA Operations committee.

With the change of Chairman at Tiger and Capt Yeap it will be interesting to see the changes and if Tony Davis survives.
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Old 9th Aug 2011, 12:53
  #1276 (permalink)  
 
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Wink

rated on the A310, B747 and B777
Give him a test on the Night Visual Approach rules from AIP!
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 04:13
  #1277 (permalink)  
 
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Update on Tiger

Tiger Airways to get all-clear to fly today


Tiger Airways to get all-clear to fly today
Andrew Heasley

August 10, 2011 - 1:32PM

The six-week grounding of Tiger Airways Australia is expected to be lifted today by the aviation safety authority, a day ahead of tomorrow's scheduled Federal Court hearing.

But realistically it could take the airline time to get back into the air, in order to sell seats and ready pilots, cabin crew, support staff and airliners for duty.
Fairfax Media believes Tiger's first flight could take off as early as Friday from Melbourne on one of its core routes, possibly to Sydney.

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA), which pulled Tiger from domestic flying on July 1 due to a "serious and imminent risk to air safety" is believed now to be satisfied the airline had met its conditions.

Fairfax Media believes the airline has met CASA's requirements over pilot proficiency, maintaining technical reference material and improving its safety management systems.

An administrative process was to be undertaken this morning, with the exchange of formal documents between the parties requiring authorisation by the Federal Court before the flying suspension can be formally lifted and announced.

This includes the safety authority's withdrawal of its Federal Court application to extend the grounding. Once its application is formally withdrawn, the suspension lifts.

This process is expected to take a few hours to conclude.
CASA issued a statement saying it would announce its decision on the airline's grounding at 2pm today.

The no-frills, Singapore-based airline's grounding has resulted in upheaval for the carrier over the past few weeks, including costing its former chief executive Crawford Rix his job.

The Singapore-based group's chief executive, Tony Davis, has relocated to Australia to fix the mess.

The grounding caused disruptions for tens of thousands of passengers who had their travel plans ruined during school holidays and beyond.

It also cost the airline dearly, nearly $12 million over the past six weeks, on top of $13.7 million in forgone ticket sales and refunds, and $1.4 in lost ancillary revenues.

That comes on top of the airline's $18 million loss from Australian operations for the first financial quarter this year.

The airline also drew the ire of federal and state consumer watchdogs for continuing to sell tickets while grounded, before suspending sales after warnings.

Ticket holders have faced weeks of delays in receiving refunds for tickets paid for flights that never took place.

Tiger's Singaporean acting chief executive Chin Yau Seng said last week "our relaunch will focus on route profitability and operational excellence", lending weight to speculation that Tiger will cull a number of its unprofitable domestic routes here, including withdrawing flights from Avalon Airport near Melbourne.





That sounds like code for we aren't going to cut corners and flights won't be so cheap....
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 04:32
  #1278 (permalink)  
 
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Just heard that they have got the all clear. Will be interesting to see if the travelling public will go back to them. Even Ansett flew after Sept 11 but no one wanted to travel on them anymore.
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 04:34
  #1279 (permalink)  
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Even Ansett flew after Sept 11 but no one wanted to travel on them anymore.
Surely you mean after the Easter fiasco, they only flew for 3 days after September 11.

Edit: Make that two given that we are day ahead!
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 04:42
  #1280 (permalink)  
 
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No I mean the time they flew under administration. Korda Mentha accepted 150m from ANZ as a "take this and we have no further responsibility" payment so that they could play airline mogul. They flew only the A320 and I think it went until the end of Feb when Fox and Lew finally pulled the pin.
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