Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Merged: Tiger Tales

Old 27th May 2010, 10:40
  #521 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 652
Look good to whom??

More so than ever pilots with experience are considering pay Vs work Vs location Vs living expenses/quality of life Vs quality of life for their family (omg! you mean pilots may NOT consider their families as their primary concern ...above girlfriends (or boyfriends ) in various international stopovers?? surely not!)...Vs.....................etc.

If the less pay in Tiger Oz, along with the bonus clean air (admittedly more variable these days) Vs better pay in HK/China but families having to contend with increasing health concerns and respiritory complaints sees you come out on the "..more pay thank you.." side then go for it.
Others may go the other way and decide "..better quality of life.."

People making choices?? Interesting concept!

cheers
galdian

Last edited by galdian; 27th May 2010 at 22:13.
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Old 28th May 2010, 00:22
  #522 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 370
At least they have a union in Australia, which is something they dont have in Singas.
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Old 28th May 2010, 02:32
  #523 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,791
Galdian

It's a crap deal in a now crap profession in Australia.

Quality of life is a moot argument. I know F/O's in HKG who send their kids to Geelong Grammar for clean air and an education at 50K a year, company funded.

You couldn't do that in Jetstar. You live in a modest suburb, with a back breaking mortgage and the kids go to a modest school. You can't get ahead.

And you can bang on all about Australia having a great lifestyle. But they have the fattest kids in the world! Partly due the above- low pay, long hours, big mortgages. Who can afford a lifestyle? Or good food? The latter exported- Aussie steak for dinner tonight with an 86 Grange.

Last edited by Gnadenburg; 28th May 2010 at 04:57.
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Old 28th May 2010, 23:06
  #524 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,376
A Captain with a low cost in Australia, after tax is only on the same money as an F/O with a decent job overseas and has none of the perks.

The life style at home isn't what it used to be. Drugs, crime, bongans, cost of living, high taxes, political correctness, police state, declining quality of education in the state system, unaffordable housing and Krudd for a PM.

Excellent place to be a welfare recipient, politician or bureaucrat though, not so great if you're on an above average income and paying for it all.

I'll stay overseas enjoying the low tax and great lifestyle. Australia is very enjoyable on holiday, as a place to work it would be one of my last options.

Last edited by Metro man; 30th May 2010 at 08:19.
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Old 29th May 2010, 02:49
  #525 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: home
Posts: 347
Galdian, have to agree ( hate to admit it ). I walk around in amazement in this cesspit ( HK ) as people stick their heads in the sand ( or their bank statements ) and kid themselves the pollution is not that bad, well I'm afraid it IS that bad and getting worse. If you are a skipper with a LCC in Oz and can't afford to send your kids to a decent school, sell one of your friggin' toys ! Personally I would rather be at home when my kids get home from school each day, not in another country choking on pollution.
Mate, this place is a s**thole, over 100 days per year where vis is less than 8 ks due to pollution ( which by the way consists of mercury and beryllium ), either hot and humid or cold and humid.
I am not going to go into a lecture about the pollution, just google it, there's an abundance of info and its all bad
Too many guys I work with have, in recent times, had kids and other family members, with serious illnesses, coincidence, I think not

I will now duck for cover to avoid the incoming from those who choose to poison their families for high pay and low taxes. good luck.

Had a chuckle at these:

You couldn't do that in Jetstar. You live in a modest suburb, with a back breaking mortgage and the kids go to a modest school. You can't get ahead
BS ! I have a friend who is a motor mechanic, 30 years old, he owns 3 houses, the one he lives in is debt free, if you can't get ahead on 10K net ( Jet* Capt wage ) a month, you seriously need to visit a fin planner, or earth

political correctness
Yes, I hate that about Oz and it is certainly not the case here, you are treated as what you are...a foreigner.

This is a classic:

unaffordable housing
1,000,000AUD for a shoebox, yes the company pays for it, but now for a decent size place ( by decent I mean 1500sqft, half the size of a 4x2 in Oz ) it will cost you 1.5 mil AUD plus, the 10% deposit required for this ( yes, thats right 150,000 AUD deposit ) the 3% stamp duty and the 3.5% mortgage insurance all come out of your pocket. Unaffordable housing in Oz ....ha ha ha ha.

Krudd as PM
Ok, you got me on that one.
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Old 29th May 2010, 09:28
  #526 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Down The Rabbit Hole
Posts: 19
Thumbs down

Fellow Aviators,

It would be a brave or desperate person who joined the ranks of Tiger.

No FO's are being employed or upgraded.
DEC's are being brought in on dubious "back dated" contracts and then flying in RH seat because there aren't enough FO's.

FO's are disillusioned.
Cabin Crew are disillusioned.
Captains are pi##ed off.

The EBA is being treated with disdain by management.
The AFAP are about as useful as CASA.
And the MD walks away this month with a large 7 figure bonus.
God love aviation.

If your looking at this as an FO stepping stone then great.
If you are considering it as a career move then spend some dollars on a good shrink, a Boeing endorsement or a very large G and T.

The EBA outcome may alter the progress of FO's but it won't change the attitude of "how low can we go management".

Short sightedness has scuppered many a sound business plan.
An opthalmic appointment is due for Tiger.

Can they come good on their promises?
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Old 30th May 2010, 02:26
  #527 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 19
It's outfits like this that have ruined the profession. MD collects her 2 million sharers and pi**es off leaving the pilots who've paid 50K for their ratings to try to survive on a pittance. Forget any EBA. The pilots have as much backbone as a jellyfish. As soon as Tony Davis cracks the whip they'll all fold up and agree to anything that's thrown to them. How can the pilot management stand over this cr*p?
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Old 30th May 2010, 02:46
  #528 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ml
Posts: 16
No FO's are being employed or upgraded.
DEC's are being brought in on dubious "back dated" contracts and then flying in RH seat because there aren't enough FO's.
At a 40% discount, it would seem wise to get the eba out of the way so they can employ and upgrade FOs. No eba = no expansion. With new a/c coming later this year, i hope they can get cheap parking for them somewhere.

I doubt Capts in the R/H seat fit into there "true low cost model".

Last edited by bogan mover; 30th May 2010 at 03:01.
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Old 30th May 2010, 07:50
  #529 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 254
Just wait a while and I suspect all will improve, and rather quickly too.

With the global upswing, crappy airlines like Tiger will be the first to suffer huge aircrew losses. It happened last time at J* (and will again) and this will also hurt Virgin but will decimate Tiger unless they improve T&C for pilots.

The other airlines that will suffer will then be those in polluted places like HK where no amount of $ can offset the health damage done to innocent family members by forcing them potential significant respiratory illness by making them breathe-in toxin-laden "air".
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Old 30th May 2010, 08:32
  #530 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,376
BS ! I have a friend who is a motor mechanic, 30 years old, he owns 3 houses, the one he lives in is debt free
Yes but he's a MOTOR MECHANIC not a pilot. How come he only owns three houses and is still having to work at the age of thirty ?

When you have your training paid for, recieve an allowance while learning and get onto good money at an early age it's easy to get ahead.

If he'd shelled out $100 000 for a CPL/A320 rating, spent years in low paid jobs building experience and was now starting with Jetstar, he'd be lucky to own furniture never mind property.
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Old 30th May 2010, 09:53
  #531 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,791
BS ! I have a friend who is a motor mechanic, 30 years old, he owns 3 houses, the one he lives in is debt free, if you can't get ahead on 10K net ( Jet* Capt wage ) a month, you seriously need to visit a fin planner, or earth
I have friends too. I don't get your point about your friend. Most of my friends outside of aviation wouldn't believe me if I said an airline Captain got 10K.

1,000,000AUD for a shoebox
This is about the entry price for a good house in a good suburb in Oz.

Airport West and Sunbury don't count.

So when are you joining Tiger BTW???
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Old 30th May 2010, 11:58
  #532 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 45
Posts: 1,079
1,000,000AUD for a shoebox
This is about the entry price for a good house in a good suburb in Oz
BS
I live 8km from Brissy CBD and bought this 4 bedroom brick double story house 2 years ago at 400k, and 15 mins from Airport too. Depends what you call a good house I guess.
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Old 30th May 2010, 14:34
  #533 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 75
Cool Entry Level House AUD 1,000,000

Don't know where your looking at property but you should fire your real estate agent. I own a 150 sqm 3 BR + study appartment on the beach. And i can guarantee i didn't pay anywhere near 1 mil for it. Unless you consider beach front suburbs slums!

I use to work overseas chassing the big coin before i came to the inevitable conclussion that nearly all expat pilots come to. What price is worth putting your life, and the life of your family on hold for. Trust me, no international airline pays you enough for that. Time away from your family on trips while their stuck full time in whatever s%^thole your working out of. Or you send them back to Oz to live and never see them. It's no life as far as i'm concerned.

Now I roll out of bed in the morn, walk the 60 steps from my front door to the beach, and go for a surf before sign-on and think how lucky i am.

Bet you can't do that in HK!
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Old 30th May 2010, 22:04
  #534 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 86
From the last two posts it appears that the low pay on offer in Oz has lowered expectations as well, an airline managers dream come true. With low expectations, there exists little chance of your lot improving.

Circa $1M will only get a reasonable house in most Oz capital cities. Airline pilots have traditionally done better than this.

With low pay & low expectations, all should be happy. Reading PPRuNe suggests otherwise. Perhaps its just us old guys who know otherwise doing the whinging.
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Old 30th May 2010, 23:56
  #535 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: shivering in the cold dark shadow of my own magnificence.
Posts: 524
BS ! I have a friend who is a motor mechanic, 30 years old, he owns 3 houses, the one he lives in is debt free, if you can't get ahead on 10K net ( Jet* Capt wage ) a month, you seriously need to visit a fin planner, or earth
Well it's about time some of his compatriots complained vehemently about him being so obviously over compensated. Some Motor Mechanics should go overseas to earn big money, but bitch about poor living conditions, only to return with a wad of cash and undercut your friend; which your friend should graciously accept because that's their right as a fellow Mechanic & your friend had it too good anyway. Your friend could be a member of the union, but said union will pick a fight with itself, p!ss in it's pants, blame your friend & explain that it's not actually a union as much as an order of the odd fellows. Your friend should also be compared to a poorly paid industry, regardless of how tenuous the link. Like Baker's; Do you realise how hard a baker has to work for their dough? How dare your friend try to get ahead. Doesn't he realise that's not the Australian way? I certainly hope that the Government are gouging the hell out of him so that we'll all be better off.

Last edited by psycho joe; 31st May 2010 at 00:09. Reason: is this still an aviation thread? or is it real estate?
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Old 31st May 2010, 00:23
  #536 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: DSS-46 (Canberra Region)
Posts: 734
Angry

Let's get back on topic, thanks.
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Old 31st May 2010, 04:21
  #537 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,744
What happens in GA, soon happens in the scheduled airline system.
It's happening now. For the same reasons. Caused by the same people.
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Old 1st Jun 2010, 02:23
  #538 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,791
I hope I'm in line with the subject of Tiger Tales. But I find it interesting that anecdotes of pilots coming home from abroad, to a longed for Australian lifestyle, only to resign from Tiger.

So they must have accepted the coin. But something went awry with the job/lifestyle to resign.

I hear Hong Kong will dry up as a source for experienced, type rated pilots. A part time scheme is on the table- work 5 months of the year and get paid the same amount ( probably much more if the $ weakens ) than a low cost Australian captain.
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Old 1st Jun 2010, 11:08
  #539 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 538
A Le Rhone
Which particular global upswing are you talking about. All I can see is the creeping death comming from Europe.

Also remember, Tiger can always increase fares and service should the rules of the game change.
SN

Last edited by Soup Nazi; 1st Jun 2010 at 14:22.
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Old 2nd Jun 2010, 14:30
  #540 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Formerly of Nam
Posts: 1,595
.....as a place to work it would be one of my last options.
Your whole post couldntve said it better Metro, but it'll
never be an option for me because of the fact the whole
Oz airline system has become a sick mickey mouse joke.

The last bastion of any real airline standard was the White
Rat mainline. Well thats gone too. Danada kaput finished.

To quote a poster from another thread in the Oz forum
"the aviation industry is now completely f^#cked in
australia". Well its been obvious a long time that this was
eventualy going to happen. The only surprise is it took 22
odd years.

When its properley researched and thought out Tiger is
merely a symptom not the cause. But what would I know.

Last edited by Slasher; 2nd Jun 2010 at 14:53.
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