TIBA?
Join Date: May 2007
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The other aircraft was definatly banking in a direction away from us... I didn't say it and it's kinda hard to explain but I could see the furtherest away wing poking out from beneath the other side of the aircraft, I could partially see the underside (Sorry hard to explain... imagine a 2D drawing 
). I assumed it was a non event I just couldn' believe seperation minima could be so small 1000ft in airlines particularly at night when it is hard to see... Anyway thanks for answering I know it's not really the place to post but it's kind of an odd post for someone who's only got 130hrs on Cessnas.
). I assumed it was a non event I just couldn' believe seperation minima could be so small 1000ft in airlines particularly at night when it is hard to see... Anyway thanks for answering I know it's not really the place to post but it's kind of an odd post for someone who's only got 130hrs on Cessnas.
Join Date: May 2003
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Never be afraid to ask the "stupid" question.
Often, it's not stupid at all... but a step to awareness and understanding of something very important. You may be surprised at how often someone will think, or say to you, I'm glad you asked that question... I didn't know either.
We often take for granted what we know and forget that it needs to be communicated to those who may not know... or consider that they don't need to know (the God complex?). The weaker ones will use the phrase "it's common sense" to justify their inability to educate and mentor. A non-aviation employer I used to work for used the phrase "educate your customer" constantly, to emphasise the need for understanding and communication. I used it in Air Traffic Control in Australia a few times only to hear in reply "why should we, they should know"...or... "it's not my job to educate them". If we have an opportunity to close a hole in the Swiss Cheese, however small, shouldn't we jump at the chance?
EII85,
Today's Cessna pilot with 130hrs is tomorrow's A380 Captain... or Air Traffic Controller.
Keep asking those questions and keep questioning your understanding. Good luck.
Often, it's not stupid at all... but a step to awareness and understanding of something very important. You may be surprised at how often someone will think, or say to you, I'm glad you asked that question... I didn't know either.
We often take for granted what we know and forget that it needs to be communicated to those who may not know... or consider that they don't need to know (the God complex?). The weaker ones will use the phrase "it's common sense" to justify their inability to educate and mentor. A non-aviation employer I used to work for used the phrase "educate your customer" constantly, to emphasise the need for understanding and communication. I used it in Air Traffic Control in Australia a few times only to hear in reply "why should we, they should know"...or... "it's not my job to educate them". If we have an opportunity to close a hole in the Swiss Cheese, however small, shouldn't we jump at the chance?
EII85,
Today's Cessna pilot with 130hrs is tomorrow's A380 Captain... or Air Traffic Controller.
Keep asking those questions and keep questioning your understanding. Good luck.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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True enough.
Hope to talk to you on the radio sometime Ell85 (and if I take you off the star, slow you to 210 with 30 still to run - sorry in advance, its the numpty in front or that recalcitrant thunderstorm ).
Obviously you'll be flying an A380 for Emirates if we are having a chat because I'm thinking that my time in this wonderful land may be limited to my retirement years if the Slapstick Show from Constitution Ave continues.
Hope to talk to you on the radio sometime Ell85 (and if I take you off the star, slow you to 210 with 30 still to run - sorry in advance, its the numpty in front or that recalcitrant thunderstorm
).Obviously you'll be flying an A380 for Emirates if we are having a chat because I'm thinking that my time in this wonderful land may be limited to my retirement years if the Slapstick Show from Constitution Ave continues.
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It's like an MBZ, but sometimes hundreds of miles across. And with closing speeds of 1000 knots......
MBZs were promulgated for busy-ish circuit areas. TIBAs a short notice removal of ALL air traffic services - control, alerting, emergency services etc etc. Third world stuff really, right here in Oz.
Have fun.
Cheers,
NFR
The Departed
MBZs were promulgated for busy-ish circuit areas. TIBAs a short notice removal of ALL air traffic services - control, alerting, emergency services etc etc. Third world stuff really, right here in Oz.
Have fun.
Cheers,
NFR
The Departed
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Oxygen Thief
I'm sure someone mentioned OXYGEN THIEF, I'm sorry but from what I've heard that titled is already reserved for a southern district ALM.
On reflection however, I'm sure given we are describing those in the AWB (hope you had a great xmas in july) we can make an exception on this occassion as it really is an apt desciptor!
BgTFN you
wit
On reflection however, I'm sure given we are describing those in the AWB (hope you had a great xmas in july) we can make an exception on this occassion as it really is an apt desciptor!
BgTFN you
wit
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Staffing in wonderland
Once upon a time Mr Ford developed the production line, he used it to make lots of cars, then others adapted this for other things.
now 100 years (almost to this week) TFN is trying to use the same theory in ATC.
Thing is TFN doesn't get that the production line could close down for the night, maintenance, when multiple staff get sick, or when the power fails, or any number of other reasons. AND THEN can be started up again where everything stopped.
Sorry Greg, but you obviously don't get the fact that air traffic can't be arranged to always be in an orderly assembly line fashion, coz of: medical flts, emergencies, numerous met conditions, and of course every bl**dy airplane trying to land at the same airport at the same time.
Because of this there has been a workforce of x number of highly qualified professionals hired and trained up to ensure that all of these airplanes actually reach their required destination safely beit early/late/on time.
Maybe those in the AWB may like to review their attitude to their revenue earners (and I'm including the Firies and the techs in this), and improve the conditions they work under.
By this I mean: provide an environment that encourages people to want to work for ASA. IE pay them an internationally competitive wage, provide reasonable and sustainable hours of work and leave entitlements (not neverending requests for overtime, or deferment of rec or long service leave), provide ongoing training to ensure that they remain the best people doing their job, and where reasonable allow the people doing the job to have some input into the way things work (and input doesn't mean yep I heard you thanks for that Yawn bye now).
If ASA doesn't get this, then more will leave for greener (or other) pastures.
Remember, the international market place is changing rapidly and there is still considerable growth in air traffic. And Greg you weren't in the business in the early 80s, but Mr Ronald Reagan gifted the rest of the world masses of qualified ATCOs in the early 80s, their replacements are now also able to take early retirement, but with these guys leaving the game there is no longer a glut or ATCOs in the middle east or anywhere else.
Work it out, our value is only going to go up, and if you don't do something intelligent soon, life in Oz aviation is only going to get worse for the travelling public, and the poor bu**ers who remain in ASA trying to keep up the standards.
I got out recently, but good luck to those still hanging in there.
WMF
now 100 years (almost to this week) TFN is trying to use the same theory in ATC.
Thing is TFN doesn't get that the production line could close down for the night, maintenance, when multiple staff get sick, or when the power fails, or any number of other reasons. AND THEN can be started up again where everything stopped.
Sorry Greg, but you obviously don't get the fact that air traffic can't be arranged to always be in an orderly assembly line fashion, coz of: medical flts, emergencies, numerous met conditions, and of course every bl**dy airplane trying to land at the same airport at the same time.
Because of this there has been a workforce of x number of highly qualified professionals hired and trained up to ensure that all of these airplanes actually reach their required destination safely beit early/late/on time.
Maybe those in the AWB may like to review their attitude to their revenue earners (and I'm including the Firies and the techs in this), and improve the conditions they work under.
By this I mean: provide an environment that encourages people to want to work for ASA. IE pay them an internationally competitive wage, provide reasonable and sustainable hours of work and leave entitlements (not neverending requests for overtime, or deferment of rec or long service leave), provide ongoing training to ensure that they remain the best people doing their job, and where reasonable allow the people doing the job to have some input into the way things work (and input doesn't mean yep I heard you thanks for that Yawn bye now).
If ASA doesn't get this, then more will leave for greener (or other) pastures.
Remember, the international market place is changing rapidly and there is still considerable growth in air traffic. And Greg you weren't in the business in the early 80s, but Mr Ronald Reagan gifted the rest of the world masses of qualified ATCOs in the early 80s, their replacements are now also able to take early retirement, but with these guys leaving the game there is no longer a glut or ATCOs in the middle east or anywhere else.
Work it out, our value is only going to go up, and if you don't do something intelligent soon, life in Oz aviation is only going to get worse for the travelling public, and the poor bu**ers who remain in ASA trying to keep up the standards.
I got out recently, but good luck to those still hanging in there.
WMF
Australia’s air traffic control agency is relying on hundreds of hours of overtime as it struggles to fill shifts in airport towers, a union analysis of internal rostering documents shows.
The staff union representing the nation’s air traffic controllers, Civil Air, has warned that understaffing problems at Airservices Australia are so severe they threaten to undermine its ability to provide air traffic services.
“The consequences ultimately are a reduction of air service provision, which could mean airspace closures, potentially, or a restriction of services or hours,”, the union’s executive secretary, said. “The potential for that to happen is quite real.”
The claim has been strongly denied by Airservices, which says there is no shortage of air traffic controllers. It says there have been no airspace closures and no reduction in its ability to manage airspace safely and efficiently.
From The Guardian, 23-Jun, Christopher Knaus
The staff union representing the nation’s air traffic controllers, Civil Air, has warned that understaffing problems at Airservices Australia are so severe they threaten to undermine its ability to provide air traffic services.
“The consequences ultimately are a reduction of air service provision, which could mean airspace closures, potentially, or a restriction of services or hours,”, the union’s executive secretary, said. “The potential for that to happen is quite real.”
The claim has been strongly denied by Airservices, which says there is no shortage of air traffic controllers. It says there have been no airspace closures and no reduction in its ability to manage airspace safely and efficiently.
From The Guardian, 23-Jun, Christopher Knaus
Join Date: Aug 2008
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100% true. 2 guys in my tower walked off into the sunset with 400k+ packages - and good luck to them, they’d both out in near 40 years as a controller and were given an offer they couldn’t refuse.
Problem is we are now two controllers short and are struggling everyday to staff the tower. It’s happening all over the country. Unfortunately kids these days don’t want to commit to a career with a 50% failure rate and a 5 year training bond to boot. And to be honest as a controller you are essentially locked into the same career.
Problem is we are now two controllers short and are struggling everyday to staff the tower. It’s happening all over the country. Unfortunately kids these days don’t want to commit to a career with a 50% failure rate and a 5 year training bond to boot. And to be honest as a controller you are essentially locked into the same career.
That's as much a reflection on the instructors as it is on the students
When you live....
