Pacific Blue with no crew?
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Pacific Blue with no crew?
Rumour has it that the crewing contracts for PB have been terminated and that they have no crew (Pilots or Flight Attendants) after the twentieth of August.
What's happening? I am in the middle of doing a 737 rating for a job!
What's happening? I am in the middle of doing a 737 rating for a job!
short flights long nights
Are you trying to say they have shut the airline down? No crew = no flights, the beancounters may love the thought of not having to pay ( even the $1.40 an hour they already pay) to crew the flights, but I would suggest that with no crew, the aircraft cannot fly themselves. But in this day and age, and this enviroment, nothing would surprise me........scene at bar..."Mate..I have just had a great thought how to improve my bonus, pay off the second holiday home in Hawai, get the bigger boat and lease my own jet...I will sack all the crew, that will save a hell of a lot on the bottom line!!"..."Bloody Hell..why did i not think of that!":
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Hey BM,
I have heard that pac blue are getting rid of the service providers (i.e. Rishworth and Conair), and are taking the employment in house.
So chill, sounds like a positive.
I have heard that pac blue are getting rid of the service providers (i.e. Rishworth and Conair), and are taking the employment in house.
So chill, sounds like a positive.
There will be No more coin for Rishworth PB guys. There is talk of not renewing some contracts. VB has told its pilots that there is 4 aircraft going to PB and will be wet leased with VB crew. About to put out expressions of interest to its pilots for sacondments to NZ.
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There never was a "secondment" to Voz krusty. To go there meant giving up what you had at VB. IF it is a secondment to some Pacific flying, they may well get some takers, as long as it is on present VB money and allowances.
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The PB contracts are being tossed in favor of some other arrangement, then one can assume that the airline is in some sort of talks with it crew re various employment models/options and Finally some more $$ .
I would have it a guess that any VB guys operating on PB routes, receiving a pay slip twice that of there Kiwi cousins, may end up causing more than one or two problems between the two groups. If the roll was reversed and VB needed to crew an additional 50% capacity overnight, I'm sure the thought of foreign crews operating VB routes at twice the pay would unsettle a wasps nest............
I would have it a guess that any VB guys operating on PB routes, receiving a pay slip twice that of there Kiwi cousins, may end up causing more than one or two problems between the two groups. If the roll was reversed and VB needed to crew an additional 50% capacity overnight, I'm sure the thought of foreign crews operating VB routes at twice the pay would unsettle a wasps nest............
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They were in talks regarding employment models, but VB have put an end to that citing fuel prices etc. So it's status quo for the foreseable future I believe.
I would hope VB crews think twice about the industrial situation of their poor cousins before considering these secondments. Although something tells me they won't.
I would hope VB crews think twice about the industrial situation of their poor cousins before considering these secondments. Although something tells me they won't.
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Sorry to say lads, there are blokes at VB that would sell their mother and fly for nothing. They will have no trouble at all crewing these aircraft with VB crew, no problems at all. The only thing that may stop VB from crewing these aircraft is their EBA which only covers Domestic Ops in Aus, its on page one of the document! Yet as usual, the Feds will roll over and take it like a W@#$E. I can see it now, "If we can cover VAus pilots, you can have the VB crews for wet lease". 
Dirty sometimes you speak things rationally sometimes you just speak sh*t buddy. WHO do VB guys owe anything to regarding PB? I think you should probably look at the PB history of start up etc before tossing that one around.
PB contractors are that.. contractors. The fact is VB are sending 4 A/C over there that cannot be crewed by PB due numbers. Therefore the crew will be going also. Of coarse it is on current conditions for VB guys. It is a secondment. It may surprise a few but this is not new either. Not long after PB first started and heap of VB drivers went over there for 8 months. The AFAP knew that then and know now also, They put out a letter this week about it. They will not put a fight up as it is not taking PB jobs. It is increased capacity that cannot be crewed by them. As for pays well sorry but if you sign a contract you are accepting your individual conditions despite what anyone else has. (A good warning for future VA guys actually) As for causing a stir thats nonsense. Nothing will happen at all. Infact nearly all PB crew have applications with VB anyway.
PB contractors are that.. contractors. The fact is VB are sending 4 A/C over there that cannot be crewed by PB due numbers. Therefore the crew will be going also. Of coarse it is on current conditions for VB guys. It is a secondment. It may surprise a few but this is not new either. Not long after PB first started and heap of VB drivers went over there for 8 months. The AFAP knew that then and know now also, They put out a letter this week about it. They will not put a fight up as it is not taking PB jobs. It is increased capacity that cannot be crewed by them. As for pays well sorry but if you sign a contract you are accepting your individual conditions despite what anyone else has. (A good warning for future VA guys actually) As for causing a stir thats nonsense. Nothing will happen at all. Infact nearly all PB crew have applications with VB anyway.
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PB are getting 2 more aircraft before year end, and another two early next year. Most airlines would be able to cope with that, just hire a few more pilots. For the benefit of others, PB are having huge problems retaining crew, due to the conditions offered. Over the last 6 to 8 months ALPA have been negotiating full time jobs, not contracts, and better conditions. Hence the reason for this thread in the first place. http://www.pprune.org/forums/d-g-rep...t=pacific+blue
The attrition rate is so bad, they would have huge issues even crewing one additional 737 with in 2 months.
SilverSleuth very correct VB crew are not taking jobs from PB crew, but they will be removing any of negotiation ability they had. I think its a very thin sheet of ice they walk on, whilst ALPA are actively in negotiations with the airline. Lets face it, it doesn't help. As for the past when PB borrowed 6 VB pilots for 4 month over the winter of 2005, that was then, (start up faze) this is now, in the 5th year of operation. As I said earlier if PB guys operated VB routes even without taking jobs from the current stable, there would be hell to pay.............plain and simple.
The attrition rate is so bad, they would have huge issues even crewing one additional 737 with in 2 months.
SilverSleuth very correct VB crew are not taking jobs from PB crew, but they will be removing any of negotiation ability they had. I think its a very thin sheet of ice they walk on, whilst ALPA are actively in negotiations with the airline. Lets face it, it doesn't help. As for the past when PB borrowed 6 VB pilots for 4 month over the winter of 2005, that was then, (start up faze) this is now, in the 5th year of operation. As I said earlier if PB guys operated VB routes even without taking jobs from the current stable, there would be hell to pay.............plain and simple.
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I can see where you're coming from, but would hope that things are seen a little differently now PB is a well established airline, and the crews are doing their best to negotiate an employment agreement. I believe there will be a formal request made by ALPA to AFAP regarding this, but I don't think it will have much effect.
That's not true though. Maybe 10% would. All would if they didn't mind moving to Aus. It would be fair to say nearly all PB crew are looking for work elsewhere.
Infact nearly all PB crew have applications with VB anyway.
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It would be fair to say nearly all PB crew are looking for work elsewhere..
Yes! ...and here-in lies PB's crewing problem!
Much better coin to be had everywhere else, including even the smaller Jitconnect local operation now!
Road show after road show... alot of apologies and "information flyers/handouts"... they don't pay your rising food and power bills!
Pay more and you'll retain more, especially given PB's very healthy profit last year!
Let's hope you get better T&C's with all this.
VB it seems don't even have enough crew themselves, given all the cancellations and route combining going on, let alone to crew four planes in NZ.
Yes! ...and here-in lies PB's crewing problem!
Much better coin to be had everywhere else, including even the smaller Jitconnect local operation now!
Road show after road show... alot of apologies and "information flyers/handouts"... they don't pay your rising food and power bills!
Pay more and you'll retain more, especially given PB's very healthy profit last year!
Let's hope you get better T&C's with all this.
VB it seems don't even have enough crew themselves, given all the cancellations and route combining going on, let alone to crew four planes in NZ.
Last edited by Chocks Away; 15th Jul 2008 at 02:20.
Sorry PM, you're absolutely right. I should have used the inverted commas with my "secondment".
It's interesting though that with all the crewing issues these days airline managements still expect pilots to simply "bend over and take it". When finally the last of them refuse to do it, we may see some improvement in T&C's.
It's interesting though that with all the crewing issues these days airline managements still expect pilots to simply "bend over and take it". When finally the last of them refuse to do it, we may see some improvement in T&C's.
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Krusty, I don't think it is a case of airline management expecting it, more like pilot's keep offering themselves up! Take a look at V Oz, heaps of people willing to work for $53,000 PA, not many said NO!
Please can I have the rough end of the pineapple this time!
Please can I have the rough end of the pineapple this time!
Generally speaking PB pilots have no issue with VB crewing a/c UNTIL PB can crew them. However it is going to cause an issue the longer this wet lease continues.
While this is what we have been told I suspect VB is more of a long term solution. PB could crew the a/c but do not attract enough suitable applicants. Pay is not the major issue attracting applicants, 42K NZD plus expenses for a rating is.
I hope the VB pilot group do take account of these issues as I am sure if the shoe were on the other foot the s**t would hit the fan. PB pilots are being fairly good about this recognising it is for the long term good of the company.
To the guy doing your rating- don't panic there will be a new contract sorted on the same conditions.
While this is what we have been told I suspect VB is more of a long term solution. PB could crew the a/c but do not attract enough suitable applicants. Pay is not the major issue attracting applicants, 42K NZD plus expenses for a rating is.
I hope the VB pilot group do take account of these issues as I am sure if the shoe were on the other foot the s**t would hit the fan. PB pilots are being fairly good about this recognising it is for the long term good of the company.
To the guy doing your rating- don't panic there will be a new contract sorted on the same conditions.