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Letters to the Government and the Media re: Apparent Pilot Shortage

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Letters to the Government and the Media re: Apparent Pilot Shortage

Old 26th May 2008, 03:54
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Letters to the Government and the Media re: Apparent Pilot Shortage

Fellow aviators and ppruners.

I started this thread so that you can post your letters to the various ministers in order to assist others who may not usually write such letters. My letter may not be suitable for you but feel free to use any part of it. Only post here the parts of your letter that you allow others to use.

This is not a post to talk about the pilot shortage or anything else, there are many of them already so please no comments.

Please just copy your letter here, or post contact details of others that you think should receive our thoughts.

Here are the links to all the MPs contact details.

Senate, http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/contacts/los.pdf
House of Reps, http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memlist.pdf

Also send to these ministers.
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Prime Minister’s Office http://www.pm.gov.au/contact/index.cfm


CH7 Sunrise (Sponsored by Jetstar), [email protected]
CH9 Today (Sponsored by Qantas), [email protected]
ABC 7:30 Report, http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/aboutus.htm
CH7 Today Tonight, http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/contactus

Fedup1, out.
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Old 26th May 2008, 04:39
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Letters to the Government and the Media re: Apparent Pilot Shortage


I am writing to inform you of my dealings with the Aviation Industry both here in Australia and internationally, in particular the reported “Pilot Shortage” and poor conditions offered by Jetstar Airways.
I am currently employed as a Jet Airline Captain. I have been invited to interview with Jetstar for some time now but have chosen not to at this stage. These are the reasons why.

· Jetstar charge a fee for submitting an application for pilot positions.
· Jetstars interview process is complex, with each stage costing the applicant a few hundred dollars. So the cost of going through the interview process is substantial when you add the cost of airfares, accommodation and assessments.
· Pilots have to pay for their training prior to employment at Jetstar. The training must be conducted at certain providers only and costs $38,000.
· The recruited pilot must pay all costs associated with training, including airfares and accommodation.
· During training the recruited pilot is without a salary.
· First year salary for Jetstar is substantially lower than Virgin Blue 737 first year salary.

I am not prepared to be without a salary for up to 2 months, and, pay over $2000 just to attend interviews, and, pay $38,000 in training costs. This is unacceptable to myself and may other Australian pilots who would otherwise love to work for Jetstar.

Virgin Blue has had no difficulty in filing positions, because their conditions are so much better.

I have an offer for a First Officer position with a starting salary package of about AUD $240,000 p.a.

Why would I stay in Australia with Jetstars very poor terms and conditions when I can move overseas and be treated with greater respect and make substantially more money.

The company I currently work as an Airline Captain pays less than the award wage, but the interview process was efficient, professional and didn’t cost me more than one return airfare. The company provided the training with a return of service guarantee, and I was on full pay from day one of employment. Now that my return of service guarantee has expired I am now looking for another job that at least pays the award wage.
So it seems that Australia is about to lose another experienced Airline Jet Captain to a foreign airline, not because the terms and conditions on offer elsewhere are so great, but because the terms and conditions on offer in Australia are so poor.

I have, in the past worked overseas as a pilot on a work permit. This was done in countries where the local airlines offer cadetships at no cost to the young wannabe pilots to pay for all their licences and training in return for a 5 year contract. Some even pay a salary during their 12 months of training. They do this to help fill their future pilot demand and reduce their need for foreigners. This is not the case in Australia. India, a third world country has recently announced that I will stop foreign First Officers from obtaining work visas on domestic airlines. The airlines in India are offering great opportunities for bright youngsters enticing them away from other career paths and into aviation. As a result they no longer have the need for foreign First Officers.

I have heard from friends overseas and former co workers that Jetstar has streamlined their recruitment process for foreigners and in most cases they have waived certain assessments altogether. Why have they not offered the same courtesy to the citizens of Australia?

Pilots in Australia are now faced with a different outlook than in the past. Pilot training costs have increased greatly making it difficult for many. In the past it was the enticement of a highly paying airline job that was enough to get young pilots to find a way to fund their licences as I did. Historically you needed to pay for your licences only, and if you required additional training for a specific airline or job then your employer was responsible for your additional training. Now it costs in the region of $55,000 for your commercial licence, instrument rating and ATPL subjects, Add to that, licence renewals, medicals and publications at about $1400 per year, and low wages in GA for a few years. Then when you think you have finally made it you now have to find another $38,000 for you Jetstar training and your without salary for up to 2 months. Most young pilots are looking at spending $100,000 plus for training with wage prospects that are no better than in construction or IT for example.

The Airlines have created their own problems by lowering pay and conditions, more Australian pilots are leaving for better deals overseas, and less people are interested in becoming pilots in Australia with the high training costs and low wages at the end of it. Some airlines now require you to pay for things that in the past were paid by the airline, such as: medical, airport car parking, aviation ID, meals while on duty, uniforms, and publications.

Recently a friend was offered a job with V Australia. His starting wage is $47,000 with no scheduled increases in his contract. He is also required to sign a return of service guarantee for 3 years. For his $47,000 he is required to work 38 hours a week, thats $23.80/hr. He has been flying for 5 years and has paid $75,000 for his licences over the last 5 years. Could you blame him for wanting more money and moving overseas?

Pilot wages in regional and smaller airlines have been effectively in a freeze since the late eighties. A captain on a F28 or similar size during the 1980’s were paid about $50,000, today 20 something years later captains are paid $55,000 - $60,000. That’s why pilots leave for overseas!

So I fail to understand how Jetstar can employ foreign pilots when there is an abundance of Australians locally and internationally to fill these positions but choose not to because of the poor conditions on offer. There is not a shortage of pilots, but a shortage of pay and conditions that is to blame and only the airlines can change that. I fail to see how our government will allow them to recruit foreign pilots. It is only serving the purpose of keeping wages low.

If Jetstar were to streamline their recruitment process, abandon their pay for training policy, and increase their pay then there would be no shortage of takers, but a flood of experienced candidates.


Regards
Fedup1

Last edited by fedup1; 26th May 2008 at 05:25.
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Old 26th May 2008, 04:41
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From A. Le Rhone

For what it's worth, a copy of the letter I sent to: [email protected]

Dear Ms Gillard

Just a quick email to explain my situation and express some concern at the Jetstar plan to unnecessarily recruit overseas pilots.

I am an Australian pilot, living and working overseas since 1991.
.
As a result of the then oversupply of pilots (exacerbated by the collapse of Ansett), airline bosses took the opportunity to aggressively suppress and actually cut employment terms and conditions for pilots. Whilst that may have been their prerogative as profit-oriented individuals, as the current ‘predicament’ attests, it was shortsighted. It is a direct consequence of this action (that made the return on the investment of training to become a pilot unviable) that regional airlines are now faced with a pilot shortage – and the airline managers have the audacity to complain about it! The likes of Qantas/Jetstar and Virgin still have many Australian pilots available to them.

The airline manager’s statements that they need to employ foreign pilots to remedy the situation is nonsense.

The reality is that this foreign recruitment drive is simply a further attempt to suppress the salaries of Australian pilots. Jetstar’s Alan Joyce talks about being in a global market, but if the airline were paying globally competitive salaries, Australian pilots would remain in the country rather than leaving in droves as they now do for the likes of Emirates and Cathay Pacific.

Additionally, there is a reason that Australian airlines have historically been amongst the world’s safest and that is due categorically to the extensive (and expensive) training that is mandated by CASA at all levels in the industry. I have flown for many years overseas with pilots from all nations and I can confirm (without being xenophobic) that the standard of initial and recurrent aircrew training that CASA regulation demands is superior to all. By attempting to employ non-Australian trained aircrew, Jetstar will effectively bypass this critical safety valve.

In my own case, I am an Australian citizen, possess more than the maximum qualifications suggested for Jetstar employment (I am a Captain with thousands of hours on the very aircraft Jetstar fly) but having applied online many months ago have failed to receive even a reply. I am not alone in being in this situation.

On a global basis, the Jetstar package is poor but I am potentially prepared to sacrifice financial rewards in order to have my children live back in the country of their birth and to be near their relatives. Having spoken personally to some of the South African pilots involved in the Jetstar 457 work visa situation, they are appalled at the low salaries Jetstar are paying and are planning only to temporarily work for the airline in order to obtain Australian residency.

In summary, I believe that airline managers are manipulatively creating a smokescreen with their cries of a pilot shortage and therefore ‘being forced’ to employ pilots from overseas. They are trying to hoodwink government authorities into allowing them to employ non-Australian pilots when in fact there are many Australian pilots prepared to work for these operators, particularly if they pay globally competitive salaries.

In your capacity as Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, could I implore you to deflect the misleading claims of the airlines in their attempt to gain 457 work visas for non-Australian pilots and instead revamp their terms and conditions of employment to retain qualified Australian pilots, of which there are thousands.

Thank you for you time.

A. Le Rhone

Could I suggest that all of us similarly write to Evans and Gillard. It takes 5 minutes and can't hurt.
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Old 26th May 2008, 08:18
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good stuff

Fed up 1
Your letter on post 2 is extremely valuable. Finally someone has "told it as it is". Most posts on here ammount to "how can I get a bigger aeroplane to fly, and lots more money", and not much more. Yours is different.
Your letter gives an overall view of employment in the airline industry as it is today.
You should send it to the universities and flying schools that are involved, and the government occupational guidance organisations. The wannabies need to know about these things. They have a right to know. And I bet you will find they get a very different story.
And the government will only act on what they think they know. And what they think they know almost certainly comes from the recruiters.
Please distribute this information as widely as possible.
Thank you.
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Old 27th May 2008, 00:02
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Fed Up 1

Quote - India, a third world country has recently announced that it will stop foreign First Officers from obtaining work visas on domestic airlines. The airlines in India are offering great opportunities for bright youngsters enticing them away from other career paths and into aviation. As a result they no longer have the need for foreign First Officers. - Unquote

That is not quite correct. The actual position is that the DGCA expect that they will no longer need foreign pilots in about five years, which given the training numbers they are quoting would have to be extemely optimistic
Quote - "These include conditionally increasing the age-limit to 65 years for pilots, upgradation and modernisation of training infrastructure of the Indira Gandhi Rashtriya Uran Akademi to enhance training capacity from 40 to 100 pilots per year.
Apart from this, steps are also being taken to set up a world class flying training institute at Gondia, Maharashtra for training 100 cadets and assistance to flying clubs by allocating trainer aircraft through the DGCA and Aero Club of India, he said." - Unquote

Those training numbers are highly unlikely to meet the acknowledged requirement over the next 5-6 years of >5,000 pilots.
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Old 27th May 2008, 01:38
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Tubby 1,

I was of the understanding that there was going to be no more foreign FO's in India flying on the domestic networks. Not the case for Captians or FO's on international ops. But i could be wrong.


For pilots at the QF group, send you complaints to
[email protected]

From ShaftedDriver.

So Rather than bleed and bitch on this forum there is an Australian Ombudsman that will inviestigate why an Australian Government Agency has isssued these Visa's when the conditions have not been satisfied..
If you like me no longer buy the rhetoric that recruitment is on hold due 787 delays and feel like making an offical complaint as I have .. see below for the LINK..
http://www.comb.gov.au/

Foreigners in my city doing a job I am able to do and may even be more experienced to do than them ??
No we have the legal right to challenge this one... / more complaints the better
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Old 27th May 2008, 06:45
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Although I am not seeking employment at Jetstar, Qanatas or Virgin and haven't sent this yet, will do so.

Dear......

I refer to recent statements that major and regional airlines in Australia are so short of pilots that they need to sponsor foreign-born pilots under the 457 visa arrangement.

While there is no denying that there is a general shortage of pilots world-wide, the fact remains that many Australian pilots have applied to airlines here and had their applications ignored or rejected.

What are the minimum qualifications to be an airline pilot? To be a First Officer, a Commercial Pilot Licence and Multi-Engine Instrument Rating. That's it - and is all that airlines such as Singapore, Malaysian, British Airways etc require. To be a Captain requires an Airline Transport Licence (ATPL). That is the ICAO minimum, and Australia is an ICAO contracting State. However, airlines quite reasonably expect some measure of experience above the licence minimums before letting pilots loose in command. How much is a reasonable measure of experience? Consider the RAAF and any other major air force with large transport aircraft. Typically, after a three or four year period of training, including time as First Officer, a military pilot would be in command, flying missions to difficult places anywhere in the world. Would it then be too much to trust a pilot who had been a First Officer for three years with command of a jet flying the relatively benign skies of Australia? It depends on the quality of the training, and for that the airlines must be accountable.

We have seen the result of dodgy doctors being brought in to Australia to solve a perceived shortage. I urge you to demand that the airlines here screen all qualified Australian applicants who apply before granting 457 visas. By qualified, I mean with the appropriate licence, not some trumped-up excess requirements. For command vacancies, in the first instance they should be required to offer promotion internally to any pilot who has had a satisfactory period of, say two years, as First Officer within the organisation and who has an ATPL. Thereafter, a direct entry command to any Australian applicant with relevant experience. Then, and only then, to only grant visas to foreign pilots who can meet the same screening standards as those imposed on the Australian applicants.
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Old 27th May 2008, 23:23
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Fed Up 1

Here is the lead in to the earlier quotes (15 April 2008)

Faced with an acute shortage of trained pilots, various airlines have engaged nearly 1,000 foreign pilots, the Rajya Sabha was informed on Tuesday.

However, the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) has advised all scheduled, non-scheduled and general aviation operators to submit their plan to phase out foreign pilots and replace them by trained Indian pilots, Minister of State for Civil Aviation Praful Patel said in a written reply.

As per the plan submitted by the operators, all the foreign pilots are likely to be repatriated in approximately five years time


Note there is no discrmination between domestic and international carriers. On the question of optimism by the DGCA it is interesting to note that around the same time as this decision was made public they approved an additional 3 carriers (2 domestic passenger and 1 freight the latter possibly international). So can not see them managing with only national pilots now or in 5 years time!!!!
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Old 28th May 2008, 06:09
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$38,000 endorsement cost

And don't forget to mention in your letter that this endorsement is available elsewhere from training providers approved by CASA (US FAR 142 schools) at 50% less cost (even accounting for airfares and accomodation). Jetstar however, insist it be done with either Alteon or Air NZ, perhaps so that they can get kickbacks in the form of discounted sim time.

A cosy little arrangement indeed.
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Old 28th May 2008, 06:28
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Ah, fedup1, what has the Government Ombudsman got to do with the Qantas Group? In case you aren't aware, QF is not a government body and so the Ombudsman can do sweet FA about them.
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Old 30th May 2008, 03:38
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Anyone had any responses.
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Old 30th May 2008, 06:17
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Fedup

You clearly have little understanding of how Government works.

No Federal Minister or Senator would be remotely interested or have the time available to read a laundry list of complaints from a laborer annoyed about the wonders of free market capitalism.

The only office coverage such a letter will get is at the end of the day when it provides light relief for the aids and advisors as they recall the last time a group of pilots cried about how nasty the airlines were being to them.

It is not the Governments job to force industry to be nice to you. If Jetstar require an application fee and you object to it, don’t join. Move overseas where you will be treated with respect (ever worked for an airline in the US?) and apparently you can earn $240,000 as a first officer. Bravo.

“Pilots in Australia are now faced with a different outlook than in the past.”

There are those that make things happen.
There are those that things happen to.
There are those that say what happened.

Which are you?
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Old 31st May 2008, 12:22
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I wouldn't be writing a letter, just don't apply. Look what is now happening wtih Eastern Australia Airlines. So much for paying $10,000 to fly a prop, "because it's the industry norm' ". I wonder if there's anyone on here that actually paid that? Did they get their money back?
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Old 31st May 2008, 12:59
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Ah, EBT, the Qantas group is sponsoring 457 visas which are issued by The Dept Of Immigration, which, I believe, is a Commonwealth govt entity, and subject to scrutiny by the Commonwealth Ombudsman. If the said dept is issuing visas without the criteria being filled then....Did that really have to be spelled out for you?
As I have mentioned previously (after having been doen this road in the recent past), the Prof is correct. For the issue to get traction with pollies, it has to get media (which it is, a little). For it to get media, there really needs to be a safety angle (for some reason, "doing the right thing" just isnt enough these days). Perception is everything. If the public started reading stories about how they are going to be flown around by the pilot equivalent of the 'dodgy doctor' (as metioned in one of the open letters), it would get traction. Think 'dodgy third world pilots' and 'Qantas group' in the same sentence, over and over.
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Old 31st May 2008, 16:04
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If the public started reading stories about how they are going to be flown around by the pilot equivalent of the 'dodgy doctor' (as metioned in one of the open letters), it would get traction.
Well, it happened before and nobody gave a "rats****"

No "dodgy doctor" stories at that time, of course.
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Old 31st May 2008, 17:39
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any response to the emails yet ??
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 09:09
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Fedup1 has it spot on, the T&C's here in Oz for many a position (not just airline) are a joke.

I'm in a non-flying possie at QF, have the solid option to go for ahem!! a interview/checkout for the line , but the terms and conditions are just not do-able.


QF is not the problem, it's Australian Business that is the problem, look at the QFlink vs Rex vs Virgin debacle at holding on to staff......
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